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Government sponsored viral mutations, attempted suppression, and the Congressman who cared.

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posted on Apr, 17 2012 @ 02:49 PM
I have not seen this posted on ATS yet, so if it has been, sorry. Regardless, I feel this should be common knowledge amongst ATS members.

It's sometimes said that secrets are often out in the open, and in this case it's never been truer. Except this secret could have some dire consequences for you, me, and everyone you know.

Part One:

Scientists Brace for Media Storm Around Controversial Flu Studies
Dated 23 November 2011

ROTTERDAM, THE NETHERLANDS—Locked up in the bowels of the medical faculty building here and accessible to only a handful of scientists lies a man-made flu virus that could change world history if it were ever set free.

The virus is an H5N1 avian influenza strain that has been genetically altered and is now easily transmissible between ferrets, the animals that most closely mimic the human response to flu. Scientists believe it's likely that the pathogen, if it emerged in nature or were released, would trigger an influenza pandemic, quite possibly with many millions of deaths.

NSABB chair Paul Keim, a microbial geneticist, says he cannot discuss specific studies but confirms that the board has "worked very hard and very intensely for several weeks on studies about H5N1 transmissibility in mammals."

Now, what is the NSABB? From their website:

The NSABB is a federal advisory committee chartered to provide advice, guidance, and leadership regarding biosecurity oversight of dual use research, defined as biological research with legitimate scientific purpose that may be misused to pose a biologic threat to public health and/or national security.

Okay, so far, for those of you who are still following along, here's what we have so far:
While conducting "Duel Research", scientists were able to screw around with the H5N1 virus through trial and error, to include reverse genetics, and eventually passing the virus from host to host until it mutated enough to become airborne, thus passing it between mammals. If you read the article, these guys seemed to be trying pretty hard.

How dangerous could this be, if it ever got out?

"I can't think of another pathogenic organism that is as scary as this one," adds Keim, who has worked on anthrax for many years. "I don't think anthrax is scary at all compared to this."

Kiem is the NSABB Chairman.

Anyway, continuing on...

The U.S. National Institutes of Health (NIH), which funded the work, has agreed to the publication, says Fouchier, including officials at the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases. (NIH declined to answer questions for this story.) Now, Fouchier is eagerly waiting for NSABB's judgment.
...But he says it should be possible to omit certain key details from controversial papers and make them available to people who really need to know. "We don't want to give bad guys a road map on how to make bad bugs really bad," he says.

No kidding

But why do it in the first place (remember, worse than Anthrax) and if people were so intent on doing it, why initally push for publication? Why go about it so willy nilly in the first place?

Others think it was a bad idea to publish too, aparently:

For instance, a proposal by four researchers from the Center for International and Security Studies at Maryland would have classified Fouchier's work as an "activity of extreme concern" that would have required international pre-approval.

Oh really?

So anyway, from what I gather, nothing much was really discussed since the original article, but someone thought it was pretty dumb to be conducting th research so openly.

Part Two:

Senior U.S. Lawmaker Leaps Into H5N1 Flu Controversy
Dated 4 March 2012

Representative Jim Sensenbrenner (R-WI)

It was only a matter of time, it appears. After months of silence from members of Congress, a senior member of the U.S. House of Representatives has publicly inserted himself into the debate over two controversial studies that showed how to make the H5N1 avian influenza virus transmissible between mammals

See, even congress, at least internally, were thinking "WTF".

Representative Jim Sensenbrenner (R-WI), a former head of the House committees on science and the judiciary, and currently vice chair of the House Committee on Science, Space, and Technology, last week sent a "fact-finding letter" to White House science adviser John Holdren, asking pointed questions about how the U.S. government has handled the controversy—and questioning whether it should have funded the two flu studies.

Perhaps the fact that they funded it wasn't supposed to so well know as it is, in case you know, people get the wrong idea.

Below is an is some of the text from Representative Sensenbrenners letter. Full letter can be found here.

The outstanding question is less about why the NSABB is recommending against publication than it is about why this research was performed at all. I place great value on open scientific research and the free flow of ideas-these principles are truly the foundation for innovation and scientific advancement-but in the present case, researchers have created an organism that, if released, could kill millions of people worldwide. At a time when malevolent actors are actively seeking biological weapons of mass destruction, scientists have succeeded in creating an organism that we have all prayed nature would not.

Highlighting the danger, Dr. William Schaffner, professor and chair of the Department of Preventive Medicine at Vanderbilt University School of Medicine, argued that it may already be too late to control the research. Dr. Schaffner said, "We already have a growing pyramid of people who know all these data, and that pyramid will continue to grow over time."

And my favorite:

Further, if circumstances pose a legitimate threat to global health, the government needs a review system that is capable of identifying and preventing the spread of dangerous research, ideally before the research is conducted.

Maybe it's just me, but I can easily see this not ending well in so many ways. It's almost like the first few chapters of the Stand, except a comical version where the bumbling scientists inadvertently release a deadly virus, or inadvertently show others with less than good intentions how to do it.

Is everything gonna be okay? Yeah, probably. Things have a tendency to work themselves out I've noticed.

posted on Apr, 17 2012 @ 02:49 PM
Before I go though I'd like to add one more thing, if I may.

According to the NSABB's website this guy:

General John A. Gordon (Ret.)

...Is on the NSABB roster.

His resume?
Deputy director of central intelligence, Central Intelligence Agency
President's Homeland Security advisor from 2003 to 2004

Take it as something or nothing...I just thought it was somewhat interesting.

posted on Apr, 17 2012 @ 04:12 PM
I understand that the brilliant scientific minds involved in this actually went as far as digging up a victim of the 1918 Spanish influenza that killed tens of thousands of people (and left many others with debilitating encephalitis). They went into an Alaskan village and dug up a victim who was overweight and buried in the permafrost, so their sample was basically in cold storage for almost 100 years.

I just cannot swallow their PR lies that research and manipulation of the flu viruses is done in order to understand how it works.

That's like saying that I want to turn my Nissan truck into a flying saucer, to better understand its mechanics.

This is a perfect way to eliminate literally millions of people, if it were weaponized.

posted on Apr, 17 2012 @ 04:20 PM

Originally posted by FissionSurplus
I just cannot swallow their PR lies that research and manipulation of the flu viruses is done in order to understand how it works.
This is a perfect way to eliminate literally millions of people, if it were weaponized.

Thank's for your informative post.

While looking a little more I noticed that another member of the NSABB has had quite an employment history:

J. Patrick Fitch, Ph.D., is Laboratory Director for the National Biodefense Analysis and Countermeasures Center (NBACC) and the President of Battelle National Biodefense Institute, LLC (BNBI). BNBI manages and operates the NBACC national laboratory for the Department of Homeland Security as a Federally Funded Research and Development Center established in 2006.


posted on Apr, 17 2012 @ 04:35 PM
reply to post by Juston

Oh yeah, there is WAY too much government involvement in this for it to be "for the good of mankind". All research of this nature is either done by universities (underwritten by pharmaceutical companies), or by government labs. If government labs are involved, I can only think "future weaponization" because our government never does research of this nature to keep us "safe".

Money is allocated for biodefense (re: biological warfare), but not for understanding and eradicating flu dangers in the American population.

All it takes is one accident in the lab, in which a worker is afraid of getting busted so they lie and cover their tracks, and then bring the germ to the outside population, for there to be a deadly epidemic.

I wouldn't trust the government with guarding my piggy bank, much less a highly lethal virus that has been genetically modified to spread easily among the population and replicate itself so quickly in its victims that they could be dead within 48 hours, before they even knew what hit them.

Thanks for bringing this to our attention, OP!

posted on Apr, 17 2012 @ 06:02 PM
reply to post by FissionSurplus

The OP had a picture of the cover of the book "The Stand" by Stephen King, one of my all time favorite books. I know it's fiction, but it's like you said, all it takes is just one little thing to spread a deadly and potent virus. In the book, the virus got out, and the guy at the gate, fearing for his wife and baby, ran to get them to run away from the facility. It was too late. He was infected, and he started the spread of it across the U.S. (and the world presumably, because that's what would happen). That's it. It's possible. It is something I think is quite possible to happen. In the book the virus had a mortality rate close to 100% so most of the population died and the book is about the aftermath. There is a supernatural element to the book, but I like reading about and contemplating the more mundane aspects of such an event. If you haven't read the book, maybe try it out. Very thought provoking.
edit on 17-4-2012 by Ellie Sagan because: (no reason given)

posted on Apr, 17 2012 @ 06:42 PM
reply to post by Ellie Sagan

My 14 year old daughter is reading "The Stand" for the first time now,and it gave me a bit of a chill as i scrolled down and saw the picture of the book..yeah,it would take so little.These people who engineer these viruses should be on trial for crimes against humanity,and their work destroyed-but that won't happen.I am convinced a scenario like The Stand will occur-lets face it,sooner or later,something is gonna go wrong-and its all over,red rover.If it does not happen,very few people will be happier than me,my youngest child is only 5,turning 6 next month..but its in the nature of humans to play God,to do useless things,diabolical things,to push the envelope ever further- and then there's a fook-up somewhere along the line,and the lives of the innocents get stolen.

posted on Apr, 17 2012 @ 07:12 PM
Thank you for the replies everyone.

I'm honestly surprised. I thought this thread would pick up steam...It was made for ATS!

Government secrets? Check.
CIA Involvement? Check.
Possible DOD R&D? Check.
Mutated virus that can do tons of damage? Check.
Not from Before its News or YouTube? Check.

Oh well, guess I gotta retake "Sensational Titles 101"

posted on Apr, 17 2012 @ 09:22 PM
reply to post by Juston

Threads on ATS are weird that way.....Some of them have all the earmarks of taking off like a rocket, but due to the time it is posted, it may have been swept away by the tide of threads being posted. It happens.

However, it is an EXCELLENT thread, and if people miss it, it is their loss. You did a great job and a few of us on here recognize it.

Plus, you'd be surprised....I've posted stuff and it looked like it shriveled and died. I went to bed thinking "Oh well", only to wake up the next morning and notice that many more people have picked up on it overnight.

The thread is solid and interesting. Pat on the back from me!

posted on Apr, 17 2012 @ 09:28 PM
reply to post by Ellie Sagan

It's funny, I've never read The Stand nor seen the mini-series.

I stated that a lab worker could have leaked it because I read a book about Plum Island and how crappy their defenses are against things leaking out, and how lab workers actually were the cause of viruses getting out of the lab. Now Plum Island is closed and the land is for sale (dig a hole there and win a prize...Anthrax!!).

In my opinion, and the opinion of a bunch of researchers, the carelessness and cavalier attitude of the Plum Island administration caused Lyme Disease to get out via diseased ticks that attached themselves to deer which had swum the mile long distance between Lyme, Connecticut and Plum Island. Yes, deer do swim that far for some pristine grazing land. Who knew??

The USDA scientists should have known. They let the mycoplasma loose on the population, then threw their hands up and went "whoops". Utterly amazing. Our tax dollars at work.

posted on Apr, 17 2012 @ 10:00 PM
reply to post by Juston

Nice thread and frightening. No one should be allowed to do this. There is no reason for it. This reminded me of this movie I just watch over the weekend. This isn't a movie I would typically watch, but the people I was with wanted something "scary."

It was called H1N1:Virus X and what I thought was strange about the movie was it was about a group of scientists hired to mutate the H1N1 virus to its deadly form,all of it was highly classified and the scientists thought that it was for the better of mankind. Movie was made in 2010 after the 2009 H1N1 flu season.

This is a link to the movie if anyone is interested:

"After being infected with a hyper-deadly virus mutation, five medical scientists must escape quarantine and force their way to freedom. Only a mysterious, silver-haired enforcer stands in their way."

Also, I felt the movie was awful... but the message was very intriguing. Here is a better link about the movie if you don't want to watch.
edit on 17-4-2012 by Happyfeet84 because: Note to add

posted on Apr, 17 2012 @ 10:53 PM
reply to post by FissionSurplus

Well, you MUST read The Stand! And make sure it's the one King re-released

Don't waste time with the Mini-Series...unless you are done with the book.

On topic though, that's interesting about lime disease. Definitely going to have to look into that one. Who knows what's been unleashed on the people by governments.

posted on Apr, 18 2012 @ 10:02 AM
Well, it looks like this report is being published in its entirety.

The NSABB met on March 29 and 30 and voted 12-6 in favor of publishing Fouchier and colleagues' research in full.


posted on Apr, 18 2012 @ 01:10 PM
reply to post by Juston

why not return to sender?

that will stop these evil people.

posted on Apr, 20 2012 @ 08:13 PM
reply to post by nobodysavedme

I somehow don't think that will workout to well.

posted on Apr, 20 2012 @ 09:42 PM
There are a handful of these man manipulated viruses, called Chimera Viruses. One of the most deadly if ever released is the Ebolapox virus which basically is the combination of smallpox with the incurable ebola virus that will cause massive internal hemorrhaging .

"The Ebolapox could produce the form of smallpox called blackpox," Alibek says. Blackpox, sometimes known as hemorrhagic smallpox, is the most severe type of smallpox disease. In a blackpox infection, the skin does not develop blisters. Instead, the skin becomes dark all over. Blood vessels leak, resulting in severe internal hemorrhaging. Blackpox is invariably fatal. "As a weapon, the Ebolapox would give the hemorrhages and high mortality rate of Ebola virus, which would give you a blackpox, plus the very high contagiousness of smallpox," Alibek said.

Now why in anyone's right mind would they want to create these deadly viruses? For biological warfare, there is no other logical reason at least. But it's still very dangerous....who would win? The disease would probably cause a pandemic, killing those who released it as well. It's lose lose if you ask me, and if one of these ever accidentally leaked free we're all pretty much screwed. It's a dumb idea.

posted on Apr, 20 2012 @ 09:58 PM
And how many of these types of projects are done without telling the public. Nothing was said till after they created it and were sure there weren't any escaped spores out there.. This is just the tip of the iceberg. When something major happens it will be made to look like a terrorist did it. I have read enough of this script to figure out the rest of the show. It's going to backfire for those who are orchestrating this though, they have been too busy feeling proud of themselves to see other things falling into place....Maybe nobody is going to survive

posted on May, 2 2012 @ 04:58 PM
Well, the first of the two research papers have been published by the journal Nature.

posted on May, 2 2012 @ 04:59 PM
For those still following along…

Well folks, there you go…

Controversial Bird-Flu Research Published: How Worried Should We Be?

Many scientists believe this would be a mistake. They think that research on what could possibly make H5N1 deadly to humans is too urgent to be put under onerous security constraints.

posted on May, 2 2012 @ 05:17 PM

Originally posted by Juston
reply to post by FissionSurplus

Well, you MUST read The Stand! And make sure it's the one King re-released

Don't waste time with the Mini-Series...unless you are done with the book.

On topic though, that's interesting about lime disease. Definitely going to have to look into that one. Who knows what's been unleashed on the people by governments.

Jesse Ventura did a segment about plum island on his conspiracy theories show, I'm sure its still available on you tube under his name.

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