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Obama's 'Green Collar' Jobs Have Been a Bust

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posted on Apr, 17 2012 @ 05:53 PM
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Originally posted by Kaploink

The epitome of capitalism would be a competitive market where every company competes against other companies for customers based on price and quality of their product.

Show me a credible source where it says oil companies do NOT do this?



The existence of cartels where multiple companies agree on a price and product production goes against the very ideal of free market capitalism.


Each oil company pays something different for the price of oil. Each consumer pays something different at the tank. There is no difference between what perfect capitalism is and what you are describing in these two quotes. You just used different words with a negative spin to describe the same exact thing!




posted on Apr, 17 2012 @ 06:01 PM
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Originally posted by MrXYZ

Who cares about labels, all that matters is jobs...and giving one industry an unfair advantage through subsidies costs the other industry (aka green technologies) jobs!! Oh, and that's a FACT.

And I wasn't insulting you...just questioning your knowledge. Because for someone who just a few posts ago questioned someone else's credentials, you don't seem to know all that much


You still haven't addressed any of my questions. Obama's startup energy ideas have ALL FAILED! And that IS a FACT! The only unfair advantage oil has compared to whatever the green industry is, is that Oil is distinguished. It's just there in the Earth waiting to get drilled. It's very hard and expensive to harness wind energy, create and maintain nuclear power, and we don't have unlimited supply of freshwater either. Every liberal seems to overlook that whole freshwater thingy. Freshwater is called blue gold in certain parts of the world and is more needed than oil, for obvious reasons

The only thing I agree with you on, is that the oil companies should no longer get subsides. Green companies shouldn't get money from the government either. Let the free market work!!!!
However, don't go pointing fingers at them for finding loopholes in your stupid green energy policies that allowed this to happen! They profit off of their stupid wind farms that fail in three years!

I wonder when people are going to realize that Green energy and green jobs and green technology is just politispeak but apparently I am the one that doesn't know anything here. Jeez.

edit on 17-4-2012 by jjf3rd77 because: (no reason given)

edit on 17-4-2012 by jjf3rd77 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 17 2012 @ 06:32 PM
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reply to post by jjf3rd77
 





You still haven't addressed any of my questions. Obama's startup energy ideas have ALL FAILED! And that IS a FACT! The only unfair advantage oil has compared to whatever the green industry is, is that Oil is distinguished. It's just there in the Earth waiting to get drilled.


So still blissfully ignoring the FACT that the oil industry has an unfair advantage through MASSIVE tax subsidies and a favorable legislative environment?


I explained numerous times in detail WHY green energy currently can't compete with oil.


The funny part is, you are partially correct!! It is partially Obama's fault that those green initiatives failed. He continues to give the oil industry an unfair advantage that allows them to undercut every single competitor.




Show me a credible source where it says oil companies do NOT do this?


Those oil tax breaks are a great example of how they are NOT part of a free market. Those tax breaks will cost us around $77b over the next 10 years!! And don't say "that's a small amount", because conservatives going ape# over MUCH smaller amounts like Solyndra or some government workers wasting $800k at a party.


And no, those tax breaks don't bring down the price of oil...they had them for ages, and the price of oil has consistently gone up, as has total production output


Oh, and in case you're wondering what the average effective tax rate of those oil companies is...it's 17.6%. Now I'm sure you're curious how much the average effective tax rates of US citizens is, right? It's 20.4%!!

Yes, the average citizen pays almost 3% more taxes than some of the richest companies on the planet.
edit on 17-4-2012 by MrXYZ because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 17 2012 @ 07:12 PM
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Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by jjf3rd77
 


So still blissfully ignoring the FACT that the oil industry has an unfair advantage through MASSIVE tax subsidies and a favorable legislative environment?


I explained numerous times in detail WHY green energy currently can't compete with oil.



And I explained to you why the "green industry" which only exists in politispeak language and in no official national way! IT IS A NON-EXISTENT INDUSTRY!!!!!!! oil exists and is quite easy to profit off of.



The funny part is, you are partially correct!! It is partially Obama's fault that those green initiatives failed. He continues to give the oil industry an unfair advantage that allows them to undercut every single competitor.

Actually it's not Obama's fault they failed. They were already in the red before Obama came along. They just fudged the numbers and Obama stole from the people! So, no accountability goes to them?? This isn't oil's fault! The Environmental activists have their own crazy agenda that I want no part of! The only thing the oil companies affects in my life is the price of oil!




Yes, the average citizen pays almost 3% more taxes than some of the richest companies on the planet.


Where is your sources for this info??? All I am seeing is random numbers coming from you which is what I can do as well. it's not oil's fault for the problems in the green industry. Which you still have not even been able to define!!!!
edit on 17-4-2012 by jjf3rd77 because: (no reason given)

edit on 17-4-2012 by jjf3rd77 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 17 2012 @ 07:21 PM
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reply to post by jjf3rd77
 





And I explained to you why the "green industry" which only exists in politispeak language and in no official national way! IT IS A NON-EXISTENT INDUSTRY!!!!!!! oil exists and is quite easy to profit off of.



So solar companies, wind turbine companies, water energy companies...they're not "green energies"?


Just because they hire technicians and engineers like other industries doesn't mean the entire industry doesn't exist


So now you're fighting them with semantics?





Actually it's not Obama's fault they failed. They were already in the red before Obama cam along. They just fudged the numbers and Obama stole from the people! So, no accountability goes to them?? This isn't oil's fault! The Environmental activists have their own crazy agenda that I want no part of! The only thing the oil company's affects in my life is the price of oil!


You do realize Solyndra wasn't the only green company that received government investments, right? Most of them paid that money back, so they worked...and most who failed at paying back fell victim to the economic crisis, just like most other industries too. The difference is, the banking industry and car industry received trillions of dollars in aid, while they didn't





Yes, the average citizen pays almost 3% more taxes than some of the richest companies on the planet.

Where is your sources for this info??? All I am seeing is random numbers coming from you which is what I can do as well. it's not oil's fault for the problems in the green industry. Which you still have not even been able to define!!!!



Exxon is a public company, they release their tax info because they have to. Read their last few annual reports.

You can check effective tax rates for US citizens on the BLS website...or here. The latest available data is 2007.

Fun fact: Romney beats not only the average citizen (even though he's way up in the top 1%), he also beats Exxon by a healthy margin...he paid 13.9%



posted on Apr, 17 2012 @ 07:41 PM
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I notice you keep repeating the same lies ad-nauseam mr xyzee, even though they have been de-bunked many many times over!






HUFBAUER: Debunking the big-oil subsidy mythEnergy companies receive same tax treatment as other manufacturers


The late Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan used to warn against “semantic infiltration” - employing less-than-accurate words in an effort to shape the debate. Moynihan’s caution is often ignored, but it’s still worth calling out the offenders. Among them is a favorite think tank of the Obama administration, the Center for American Progress (CAP), which regularly insists that taxpayers are “subsidizing big oil companies.” That’s simply not true. U.S. energy companies, specifically those in the oil business, are eligible for the same tax treatment as other U.S. industries.


To understand this, it’s important to take a close look at the words being used. CAP shrewdly - but inaccurately - conflates two completely different terms in public finance: subsidy and deduction. A subsidy is a payment made by the government, usually to promote the prospects of a specific technology or action - be it solar energy, ethanol or something else. Subsidies are often equated with handouts - a derisory term for sure. A business deduction, on the other hand, is designed to ensure that a firm is taxed only on its net income.

Deductions allow businesses to write off legitimate expenses from gross revenue to calculate net income. Deductions are widely regarded as proper in a system that taxes income, not revenue. Properly defined, subsidies and deductions are as different as apples and oranges. That hasn’t stopped President Obama, Democrats in Congress and even some Republicans from semantic infiltration.


www.washingtontimes.com...






Green Energy – Too Many Subsidies, Too Little Performance


By Marin Katusa, Chief Energy Investment Strategist, Casey Research

Any politician who talks of a green, utopian US – where wind and solar produce most of our energy, electric cars put power back into the grid, green fields of corn produce clean fuels, and millions of Americans work in green technology factories – is creating a fanciful vision so far detached from reality it should really be called a lie. Such tales are designed to encourage a public that is increasingly despondent about the future, but the policy moves that have been made in support of these fantasies have cost taxpayers tens of billions of dollars. Much of it is money that will not be repaid, because a whole whack of the companies and industries that accepted green grants, loan guarantees, and tax credits have turned out to be complete failures.

Two green subsidies expired with 2011, and not a moment too soon. In fact, we wish more of the US government’s initiatives to support green energy had ended with the stroke of midnight, because the green energy industry has become completely dependent on a steady stream of government money. Protected by this "green gold," green technologies from corn ethanol to solar power have not had to compete against other power sectors based on their merits. If they had, many would have already failed.

Let’s a take tour through some of the US’s green subsidies and examine just how they have tipped the scales in favor of technologies that generally don’t stand the test of economics, are often worse for the environment than conventional methods, and are costing taxpayers dearly....................................


www.creditwritedowns.com...


edit on 17-4-2012 by JohhnyBGood because: link



posted on Apr, 17 2012 @ 07:45 PM
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Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by jjf3rd77
 


Those tax breaks will cost us around $77b over the next 10 years!!

Not sure where you pulled this from but the only $77 Billion reference I could find on Google was this. www.nytimes.com...



Oh, and in case you're wondering what the average effective tax rate of those oil companies is...it's 17.6%.

Actually the average industrial corporation here in the US pays about 22.6% in taxes. The Oil companies...Pay higher than that! www.bloomberg.com...



Now I'm sure you're curious how much the average effective tax rates of US citizens is, right? It's 20.4%!!

Not sure where you're getting this number from or what taxes you are basing this number off of, but it really doesn't matter about feel bad numbers and wealth redistribution. it doesn't work! It didn't work in Europe and it didn't work in China or Russia and I want no part in it.

The Green Lobby, no not industry fits perfectly with the liberals plan for socialism and communism here in America. So what happens when the green industry becomes more influential than the oil industry? Why can green companies get a pass for subsidies?

Oil companies are green companies! They invest the most into the crappy little projects.



posted on Apr, 17 2012 @ 07:54 PM
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reply to post by JohhnyBGood
 


It's not just tax breaks, it's subsidies too!! In fact, subsidies and tax breaks for the oil industry (with tax breaks being the smaller share) amounted to $41b.

Green energies combined (that's wind and all the rest) got a FRACTION of that


Here's a good video going over the various loop holes they use...loop holes that essentially turn into subsidies




And again, Exxon's taxes are public information, so the 17.6% figure isn't made up...and neither is the 20.4% figure for the average citizen because it's from the official BLS website

edit on 17-4-2012 by MrXYZ because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 17 2012 @ 08:39 PM
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reply to post by MrXYZ
 


Wanna know why green energies fail???

Because the oil industry (you know, the direct competition to green energy) is disproportionally subsidized by government welfare!!! They get subsidized so much, it makes it pretty much impossible for green energies to compete.

THAT'S why green energies aren't profitable yet, because bought sock puppet politicians who pretend to love free market (lol) skew competition by subsidizing their main corporate donor...the oil industry


That is pure drivel.

Maybe you missed the part of the OP Reuter's article that gives Obama's plans for "green" investment:


in 2008, Obama promised that "investing" $150 billion taxpayer dollars would create 5 million jobs


The figure you cite are for oil and gas, not oil.
Mostly, they are the same deductions that ALL businesses get for R&D and other expenses.

They also get to write down their assets over time as fields are depleted.
It amounts to about 10% of the "green" boondoggle so far.

Want a source? How about Obama's protectors and mouthpiece, the New York Times:

When he releases his new budget in two weeks, President Obama will propose doing away with roughly $4 billion a year in subsidies and tax breaks for oil companies, in his third effort to eliminate federal support for an industry that remains hugely profitable.

Obama’s Bid to End Oil Subsidies Revives Debate

And guess what happened to Obama's 2011 Budget: the Democrat-run Senate voted it down 97-0!
All the talk of "big oil subsidies" is an empty gimmick; and the masses eat it up like candy.

How pathetic.

deny ignorance

jw.

edit on 17-4-2012 by jdub297 because: OP



posted on Apr, 25 2012 @ 06:24 PM
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Yes, They have been a Bust,,, the question is,,, Why did he even attempt to support and fund those projects.

I'll tell you why, To Bring America To It's Knees, Make Every One Feel Guilty,,,
Here's a Video I think explains it.
You my not like what his saying in the video, prove otherwise.



posted on Apr, 25 2012 @ 11:08 PM
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The Green Jobs of Obama are a Failure, much like Obama.
No shovel ready jobs, How about starting up the old CCC work camps again.

So Obumas Green Jobs as cost us Millions in tax monies and what has he been having his Crony, Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) official Al Armendariz doing?

Trying to destroy the Oil and Gas Companies because they aren't Obama Friendly,,,,,,,
According to the Obama administration,,,,,,

“[O]il and gas is an enforcement priority, it’s one of seven, so we are going to spend a fair amount of time looking at oil and gas production,” Armendariz says in the video.

here's the video.

www.theblaze.com...



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