Autism: Evolution?

reply to post by ValentineWiggin

No babbling or pointing by age 1 No single words by 16 months or two-word phrases by age 2
No response to name
Loss of language or social skills
Poor eye contact
Excessive lining up of toys or objects
No smiling impaired ability to make friends with peers
Absence or impairment of imaginative and social play
Stereotyped, repetitive, or unusual use of language
Restricted patterns of interest that are abnormal in intensity or focus
Preoccupation with certain objects or subjects Inflexible adherence to specific routines or rituals or social responsiveness

these are all accurate, but the reason they're true stems from brain abnormalities. there are various theories on where autistic traits stem from such as theory of mind, extreme male brain, mirror neurons, etc.

it's a neurological difference and is counter-evolutionary. social skills are necessary to find a mate, so as the mutation arose, it should have died off.

let me tell you from my perspective. people's eyes are intense, looking into someone's eyes is like being on a stage in front of lots of people you don't know. it's a discomforting stimulus, so i avoid eye contact. i can't tell if someone is talking to me or not. orderly systems are comforting, they make me feel pleasure. spinning objects are tantalizing. i feel awkward all the time like everyone is staring directly at me in a hostile manner. it's difficult to decipher facial expressions. it's like being in a math class that is way too advanced for you, you're completely lost. i'm told i have a large vocabulary and to "dumb things down" for them sometimes. i LOVE physics and music. two most favorite things in the world. touching paper hurts me, and pencils scraping against it drive me mad. i can't stand it, it's so terrible, i plug my ears, but because they're so sensitive, music can be soooo beautiful.

oh, and i have 2 or 3 friends. i need lots of alone time, and being by myself feels better.

ps: you look like what i imagined valentine wiggin to look like (compliment), and i didn't miss the "demosthenes" reference either.

reply to post by ValentineWiggin


I find it more appropriate to say that Autism is not anything at all but normal or more normal than how we function as a people. Just look at the world and then look a your son as say what are the differences in real terms.

Just because we are humans and don't understand what is going on it's considers bad to be different.

Autistic children may look out of place right now but as time goes on things will change, not with them but with us the normal ones. As we think we are normal just look around you how can we call all that goes on as normal.

This is where the evolution part comes in you see there is nothing evolutionary wrong with Autistic children, the evolution lies with ever signal person that has or comes in contact with an Autistic child.

They are here to teach us to evolve out off of our views of how we see each other on this planet.
With all that is going on do we not need to take a look at our self's and say there are lots of things that we can change in this world, on how we treat and see other people on this world.

You have a Autistic teacher showing you how the world can be different, it's no longer adult teaches child but child teaches adult to view his world through different eyes.

There is no need to look for a problem as to why they are Autistic for they are not the problem we are the problem for thinking that way. There are many more Autistic children on the way we can't stop it they are here for a reason, nothing that happens on this world is by accident or coincident it is meant to be that way.

The best thing that you can do is learn from your child and learn to see the world a different way,

GL
J

Originally posted by jsettica
reply to post by ValentineWiggin

 

The best thing that you can do is learn from your child and learn to see the world a different way,

GL
J

Not many truer words have been spoken.

reply to post by chasingbrahman


I believe this could be, I have a child with autisum..... I have one who didn't cry at birth (and let me tell you I was screaming to know if he was alive) he didn't cry until 2yr he wouldn't speak, point, socialize, or potty train (he was not my 1st and the rest were not afraid of the toilet) I was subjected to the pitocin even though I was progressing appropriately and the "midwife" wanted to go home on time. I can see the correlation with the drugs and the "evolution". I appericate this thread as we are all struggling to find the truth of this "disease". I love and appericate the gift that was given to me but as far as the tv did it, the pc, and being disconnected I'm not convinced. TY op for posting this!!!!

reply to post by jsettica


You have beautiful words and a lot of truth that comes from them

Still, I think we need to accept that seeing everything as having a reason is a subjective choice. It's just a belief system you've chosen to integrate into how you view the world.

Do extinction events have a reason Perhaps so, but are they in any way beneficial to the majority of life on this rock No. Most species usually die out.

So I think it might be best to keep this discussion to a more human-centric perspective. Question is: Is the net effect of autism beneficial or detrimental to the species

I think it can be pretty well stated that the more autistic traits are presented, the less chance someone has of successfully reproducing. That seems to indicate regression, not evolution....however:

If we think more onto the trade offs of some individuals not seeding their genetics, but being an end result, does the net effect bring us back into the positive

I think an argument can be made that yes it does. We already have more humans than ever before in recorded time. We have wild mutations going through the roof. Species are dying out at least 3 orders of magnitude greater than per-agrcultural revolution.

What am I trying to get at ?? None of this is sustainable at our current trajectory. We need to sacrifice some of the numbers for some of the geniuses. Our innate propensity to mutate is necessitating that some will fizzle out, and some will adapt well. Those that adapt will be the new homo sapiens.

The terrrain is rapidly changing. We need those with savant abilities to come out of the basement and put humanity on a more sustainable track. In evolution, most mutations are purely harmful. This is what we see with the bulk of autism, but it's okay. However cold it may seem, the reality is that this process must continue on.

My cousin has quite severe autism so I've grown up around him, it is quite hard to communicate with him on a, for lack of a better word, 'normal' level, but he is quite fascinating.

He saw everything differently than we do, to the extent of seeing movement as colours - it's pretty hard to explain, hence why I find him fascinating!

However, put him in front of a computer and it's like he's in tune with it. From completing video games flawlessly to understanding programming, kinda like he was born with the ability to communicate through different means than the norm.

It does give an element of credence towards the evolution theory, and I've no doubts there's a lot being overlooked.

I have 3 of em... all autistic, all well brilliant problem solvers, mathematicians, scientific stuff.. Everyday social situations, well........ not so good... It's been enlightening seeing them grow up and the progress they make in some areas while all the while the one constant is really the lack of the "social graces"

But if you are brilliant, and can solve anything, why do you need to talk to anyone face to face? (I do but that's me I'm far from brilliant.)

OP I don't think evolution would be logical. Yes kids with autisim can have great abilities but most need care.

Autism is most likely linked to Mercury contaminating almost everything in this country.

www.naturalnews.com...

Not only do we have the deadliest toxin in the world in our vaccines, it's practically everywhere. The food, (high fructose corn syrup) The air (fuel emmisons and coal plants) CFL light's and it's even in your dental fillings!

Mercury is the cause of this and it does not only cause autisim, it causes great things like these:
Below is a partial list of diseases that are now being considered mercury-related:

Allergies
Asthma
Nearsightedness & Farsightedness
Autoimmune diseases
Amylotrophic lateral sclerosis
Ankylosing spondylitis
Myasthenia gravis
Parkinson's disease
Alzheimer's disease
Schizophrenia spectrum disorders
Borderline personality disorder
Anxiety
Panic attacks
Dysbiosis
Leaky gut syndrome
Attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD)
Learning disabilities
Endocrine problems
Depression
Obsessive-compulsive disorder
Manic depressive disorder
Rheumatoid arthritis
Juvenile arthritis
Lupus erythematosus
Multiple chemical sensitivities
Environmental illness
Chronic fatigue
Fibromyalgia
Sciatica
Gastritis
Irritable bowel syndrome
Colitis
Crohn's disease
Sleep disorders
Anorexia nervosa
Floaters in the eyes
Bulimia
Hypothyroidism
Yeast syndrome
Uncontrollable weight gain
Hair loss
Constipation
Flatulence (gas)
Shifted circadian rhythm (inability to sleep on a normal schedule)
Hypoglycemia
Hyperglycemia
Multiple Sclerosis
Weak immune system
Tinnitus (ringing in the ears)
Grinding teeth while sleeping
...and many more.

mercurytalk.com...

medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com...

Notice how anxiety is on the list? We have millions of Americans today that suffer from anxiety. They can even use at an excuse to medicate.

Next time when your at the dentist, don't get a filling, mercury fillings last for decades in your teeth then slowly dissolves into your stomach.

I think autism is devolution caused by evolution.

Tenchnological, environmental and chemical "evolution" that has a negative effect on human evolution.

It doesnt stop with autism but i do feel it's one of the most apparant disorders that just seemed to pop up en masse when our civilisation started to "evolve" more, and care less about consequences.

Factory foods, radiant technologies, big pharma, i think they all have a piece in the pie if it comes down to explosions of human disorders.

A very interesting thread!

However, I don't think that you can lump in Asperger's Disorder with the other autism spectrum disorders, as it is hereditary and runs in families.

en.wikipedia.org...

Note the following:

Hans Asperger published a definition of "Autisitic Psychopathy" (AP) in 1944 that was nearly identical with the definition that a Russian neurologist Grunya Sukhareva (Груня Ефимовна Сухарева) had published already in 1926

When it comes to true autism, there has been an explosion of cases in the past 30 years, which lends credence to the OP's theory. However, one cannot include Asperger's in this theory as we have been around for a very long time!

Speculated to have Asperger's Syndrome:

Abraham Lincoln,1809-1865, US Politician
Alan Turing, 1912-1954, English mathematician, computer scientist and cryptographer
Albert Einstein, 1879-1955, German/American theoretical physicist
Alexander Graham Bell, 1847-1922, Scottish/Canadian/American inventor of the telephone
Anton Bruckner , 1824-1896, Austrian composer
Bela Bartok, 1881-1945, Hungarian composer
Benjamin Franklin,1706-1790, US polictician/writer
Bertrand Russell, 1872-1970, British logician
Bobby Fischer, 1943-2008, World Chess Champion
Carl Jung, 1875-1961, Swiss psychoanalyst
Charles Rennie Mackintosh, 1868-1928, Scottish architect and designer
Emily Dickinson, 1830-1886, US poet
Erik Satie, 1866-1925 - Composer
Franz Kafka, 1883-1924, Czech writer
Friedrich Nietzsche, 1844-1900, German philosopher
George Bernard Shaw, 1856-1950, Irish playwright, writer of Pygmalion, critic and Socialist
George Washington, 1732-1799, US Politician
Gustav Mahler, 1860-1911, Czech/Austrian composer
Marilyn Monroe, 1926-1962, US actress
H P Lovecraft, 1890-1937, US writer
Henry Cavendish, 1731-1810, English/French scientist, discovered the composition of air and water
Henry Ford, 1863-1947, US industrialist
Henry Thoreau, 1817-1862, US writer
Isaac Newton, 1642-1727, English mathematician and physicist
Jane Austen, 1775-1817, English novelist, author of Pride and Prejudice
Kaspar Hauser, c1812-1833, German foundling, portrayed in a film by Werner Herzog
Ludwig II, 1845-1886, King of Bavaria
Ludwig Wittgenstein, 1889-1951, Viennese/English logician and philosopher
Ludwig van Beethoven, 1770-1827, German/Viennese composer
Mark Twain, 1835-1910, US humorist
Michelangelo, 1475 1564 - Italian Renissance artist
Nikola Tesla, 1856-1943, Serbian/American scientist, engineer, inventor of electric motors
Oliver Heaviside, 1850-1925, English physicist
Richard Strauss, 1864-1949, German composer
Seth Engstrom, 1987-Present, Magician and World Champion
Thomas Edison, 1847-1931, US inventor
Thomas Jefferson, 1743-1826, US politician
Vincent Van Gogh, 1853-1890, Dutch painter
Virginia Woolf, 1882-1941, English Writer
Wasily Kandinsky, 1866-1944, Russian/French painter
Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart, 1756-1791, Austrian composer

Alfred Hitchcock, 1899-1980, English/American film director
Andy Kaufman, 1949-1984, US comedian, subject of the film Man on the Moon
Andy Warhol, 1928-1987, US artist.
Charles Schulz, 1922-2000, US cartoonist and creator of Peanuts and Charlie Brown
Glenn Gould, 1932-1982, Canadian pianist
Hans Asperger, 1906-1980, Austrian paediatric doctor after whom Asperger's Syndrom is named
Howard Hughes, 1905-1976, US billionaire
Isaac Asimov, 1920-1992, Russian/US writer on science and of science fiction, author of Bicentennial Man Jim Henson, 1936-1990, creator of the Muppets, US puppeteer, writer, producer, director, composer
John Denver, 1943-1997, US musician
L S Lowry, 1887-1976, English painter of "matchstick men"

Al Gore, 1948-, former US Vice President and presidential candidate
Bill Gates, 1955-, Entrepreneur and philanthropist. A key player in the personal computer revolution.
Bob Dylan, 1941-, US singer-songwriter
Charles Dickinson, 1951, US Writer
Crispin Glover, 1964-, US actor
David Helfgott, 1947-, Australian pianist, subject of the film Shine
Garrison Keillor, 1942-, US writer, humorist and host of Prairie Home Companion
Genie, 1957-?, US "wild child" (see also L'Enfant Sauvage, Victor, )
James Taylor, 1948-, US singer/songwriter
Jamie Hyneman, 1956-, Co-host of Mythbusters
Jeff Greenfield, 1943-, US political analyst/speechwriter, a political wonk
John Motson, 1945-, English sports commentator
John Nash, 1928-, US mathematician (portrayed by Russell Crowe in A Beautiful Mind, USA 2001)
Joseph Erber, 1985-, young English composer/musician

reply to post by unityemissions


Nothing that happens on this world is by accident or coincident it is meant to be that way. So is life all planed out for us do all of this stuff have to happen this way, that's a good question ?

What does Autism have to do with it everything, Autism is part of this world and as such it has a part to play in it just like every other event or problem this world has. All things are = in the eyes of the universe.

Just because some of us choose not to see it, and that's Ok we all have the free will to choose, still does not negate or change that fact that Autism is here.

As for how it got here or how it got started well that is clearly up to debate and I hope all views are explored.

j

reply to post by FissionSurplus

from what i've read, autism and asperger's syndrome share lots of the same genetic mutations. the only differences are in severity and language development.

i've seen several lists that purportedly show people who have had asperger's syndrome, but they're all based on after-the-fact diagnoses. most of the people on those lists have just one mild symptom. once, a poet was included because he refused to write sitting down. this was declared "ritualistic behavior" and that's why he was included.

Originally posted by CINY8
I definitely believe there is a link between electronics and autism disorders. I have a close family member that is a therapist and works with pre-schoolers on a daily basis who are autistic. I also have young kids myself that have been diagnosed with sensory issues and developmental delays, I am so thankful that it isn't any worse than that as autism and other similar disorders are becoming way too prevalent.

There have been studies done on electromagnetic fields and how they may contribute to autism, which would explain why autism has increased along with our electronic usage.

Here are some sites with more information, the second one has a video from a man who has an extensive technical background who claims EMF exposure harms the limbic system (which controls sensory responses):

Autism and EMF

Electromagnetic Field Exposure...Autism

I personally believe that there are many contributing factors in today's society of increased toxic foods, lack of nutrition, vaccines and electronics. It really makes it hard to escape any of these things and figure out a way to cure this growing problem.

Here are some interesting quotes from a paper I just ran across

DNAase (an enzyme that destroys DNA) leaking through the membranes of lysosomes (small bodies in living cells packed with digestive enzymes) explains the fragmentation of DNA seen in cells exposed to mobile phone signals. When this occurs in the germ line (the cells that give rise to eggs and sperm), it reduces fertility and predicts genetic damage in future generations.

3. Leakage of calcium ions into the cytosol (the main part of the cell) acts as a metabolic stimulant, which accounts for reported accelerations of growth and healing, but it also promotes the growth of tumours.

4. Leakage of calcium ions into neurones (brain cells) generates spurious action potentials (nerve impulses) accounting for pain and other neurological symptoms in electro‐sensitive individuals. It also degrades the signal to noise ratio of the brain making it less likely to respond adequately to weak stimuli. This may be partially responsible the increased accident rate of drivers using mobile phones.

5. A more detailed examination of the molecular mechanisms explains many of the seemingly weird characteristics of electromagnetic exposure, e.g. why weak fields are more effective than strong ones, why some frequencies such as 16Hz are especially potent and why pulsed fields do more damage. Leaks in the membranes surrounding lysosomes (tiny particles in living cells that recycle waste) can release digestive enzymes, including DNAase (an enzyme that destroys DNA). This explains the serious damage done to the DNA in cells by mobile phone signals.

Panagopoulos et al. (2007) showed that exposing adult Drosophila The overall conclusion is that the genetic damage from exposure to electromagnetic radiation can have an almost immediate effect on fertility, but damage to the offspring may take several generations to show up. If we do nothing to limit our exposure to electromagnetic radiation, we can anticipate a slow decline in the viability of the human genome for many generations to come.

It is ironic that having only just discovered the human genome, we have already set about systematically destroying it.

Source

reply to post by ValentineWiggin


Dear ValentineWiggin,

I have Asperger's Syndrome (they used to call it a disease). I am also in my 50s. When I was young people still used the term "Idiot Savant". I don't consider any of the terms very pleasant. When I saw your post I thought it was interesting and then I read many of the responses. People attempting to describe how people like me are mutations caused by something. We have always been around, we are part of humanity and genetically (science says) the gene that is the same in every Autistic person is never found in the same place on another. What makes us different is not that we cannot focus or that we hyperfocus, it is that we can tune out all social input.

In a way, we sense the world more in whatever manner we individually do (sight, sound, texture, math, music...). How we react is based not on our Autism; but, on our individual personalities and that is what people don't understand. We are as varied as people with brown eyes or black hair. Because we cannot read facial expressions or understand social standards, we often do or say things that seem inappropriate, not incorrect; but,not considering the setting.

Here is where I am going. If we feel the world more then if the world becomes louder, more busy and more bright then you will find more people begin to find it too much and they begin to shut off to the outside world a little bit more. When I was in my teens, I used to read two books at the same time while watching television and listening to music. The drug of choice of the Autistic is just about always depressants.

As for oral ability, I spoke before my first birthday. There are others who wait till they are 6 or even older to speak and when they do it is often in complete sentences. My belief is that many of them understood the words; but, they couldn't understand why people say one thing and do another. It tends to make one unsure of what the words really mean. It is one of the reasons why the Autistic don't tend to lie, we will; but, the odds are much greater that we will just say whatever was on our mind.

We live in a world of sensory overload and that is going to make more people appear to be Autistic. The solution that the media and some "advocacy" groups promote is to "cure" us. I don't need to be cured of being me. Just like any other personality type, the vast majority of us learn to cope with the world. We appear stubborn because we don't cave into peer pressure as easily.

Now to your question. I don't believe that we are a step forward or backward or sideways in evolution, we are just one possibility of humanity. The thing that makes us being Einstein or Mozart is the same exact gene that makes us appear anti-social. If we "cure" autism, we will have no more like them either. There are some of us that are big on math, probably the biggest group of us. Some of them can look at rows and rows of numbers and just know the answer. Some can take the most complicated math problem and know the answer (by the way, I am not one of them).

They did a study. They put a bunch of kids in a school room and told them all that a ball was a square (I don't remember the specifics). Basically, if the first five kids said it was a square, the rest would start to say it was also; but, the autistic kids would say it was a ball. The article title about it said that autistic people don't care what you think. It missed the fact that the real problem is that people will lie in order to be popular or be accepted. Again, nothing I need to be cured of (and I don't think you think the autistic do need to be cured).

Much of what I have said above was really about the responses to your OP and I do agree that you found a possible pattern related to it. Now, I ask you to reread what I wrote and see how it could fit the same pattern if it is related to the amount and type of input we get from the world around us. I believe that as we get more and more immersed in augmented realities, we will see more an more people appear to be autistic. Peace.

reply to post by Jimbowsk


Dear Jimbowsk,

Please look 8 posts below to my post responding to the OP. I think it might help you to understand your cousin. I say this because when I read your post, I could see that you noticed an aspect of it that is unique to those of us who are autistic. Peace.

reply to post by InfoKartel


Dear InforKartel,

In my very ignorant opinion, autism is a reaction to the world getting colder and less personal and perhaps it has something to do with the brain handling certain types of trauma. Computers and television sets are raising children instead of their parents raising them. That's very healthy.

I am autistic and my answer to you is yes and no. I had great parents and a good home life. I spoke before I was 1. It is not about the parents. We do however react to sensory stimulation differently, we either shut down or need to overload our senses to ignore it. As the world gets colder and louder and more busy, more people will react to it in the same way as we do.

i do believe autism is a form of evolution in the works. my cousin is "mildly" autistic. when he was a year old his problem solving skills were insane. he knew how to work the dvd player, turn the tv on to the a/v channel so he could run the thing, and skipped to his favorite scene of godzilla every time and would even sometimes set the scene on repeat. oh and he had to use a footrest and a chair stacked on top of one another to reach it. nobody showed him how to work any of this, he just shocked me and my aunt and uncle when he just up and did it one day. was one of the craziest things i'd ever seen a child do

i noticed a somewhat higher intelligence as all of my friends and co-workers children were still drooling crap factories. i wish i could be around to see how people are in this (what i believe to be) evolution's final stage

reply to post by ValentineWiggin


I could imagine mild autism, such as in Asperger's syndrome to be an advantage in many aspects of todays world....Some Asperger's "sufferers" can be quite brilliant....Often becoming scientists and such.

Then again, I seriously doubt they have an advantage in an evolutionary sense......Stupid people always seem to outbreed smart people, and breeding is sort of at the heart of the whole idea of 'natural selection'.

If anything we are evolving more towards an Idiocracy type of world than anything!

This will likely come over badly, but it is absolutely not meant to upset.

I don't think that autism is an evolutionary advantage created by emerging comms infrastructure.

What I see is that parents' love is translated into a want for their children's "specialness". They're looking for reasons their children are autistic and it's easier for them to believe its the next stage in human evolution rather than caused by a genetic or environmental or interventionist medical route.

I like the idea that they are special, and they are. But I don't believe they are an evolutionary step.

I think numbers are increasing because of two factors:

1. Environmental and medical pollutants - vaccines, petrochemical, etc.
2. Increased awareness of the syndrome in general society - what would have been diagnosed as a mental deficiency, where an individual would have been institutionalised, is now classified as autistic.

As I have said before, I don't mean to offend, but want to put across my unromantic view.

reply to post by ValentineWiggin


"The road to hell is paved with good intentions.."

I've thought about a similar topic, with ADD/ADHD/hyperactivity disorders in general. What if there were an interest in speeding us up? Perhaps slowing us down? What if we simply haven't adapted as a species to some of these "illnesses".. With new technology, there are bugs, kinks, etc. What if the same were true for us?