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Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by EnochWasRight
If you want to break through to jews you have to start with Yeshua's transmutation of water to wine (symolism for the blood) and then hit on points of symbolism like the fall feastdays which to them are dress rehearsals for what we call the "harpazo" (Rosh Hoshana) and Yom Kippur (Day of Atonement a.k.a. Judgement Day when Yeshua/Messiah returns) and Sukkot (Feast of Tabernacles, which is the "new heaven and new earth" where no one will build a house for another to live in or make food for another to eat).
What they need to hear is imbedded within christianity, it's just that christians are not taught from the cradle the OT and its prophetic symbology so we rarely know what to say to them to get their attention. Thats and the R.C.C. persecution of the jews for the last 2000 years doesn't make it very easy for us to communicate with them because it has made them distrustful of us. To reach a jew you need to match the prophetic events in the OT with Christ fulfilling those prophecies and that Yeshua was not just confirmed by one prophet, but every single one of them all the way to David and even Moses and then hit on those bullet points.
Being that you reference Saint Augustine of Hippo... would you be willing to entertain the following question.
It appears that you seemingly have concluded many of the meanings behind numbers, and their uses with in biblical texts. Which leads me to the question...
What does the number 7 mean, and also the importance of the apple as it relates to knowledge? It may be more appropriate to address this question in a new thread, but a simple answer will suffice.
Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by EnochWasRight
The average Jewish person will realize the significance of what is stated if they have even a vague realization of the Old Testament and some notion of the stories of the New Testament.
Only if they use the Septuagint (LXX), not the Messoretic Text. It was de-Jesused at the Council of Jamnia in 90 AD. For that reason and they no longer had a temple in order to practice Mosaic Judaism, now it's Talmudic and it's a religion of works.
That's why when you read Isaiah 53 based from the LXX to a Jew they will scream:
Modern Jew: "YOU CHRISTIAN, STOP READING TO ME ABOUT YOUR JESUS!!!!!"
Christian: "It's your own book of Isaiah, chapter 53."
When they say the prophecy of the "virgin" birth only means "a young maiden", you always point them to what their own Hebrew scholars translated it as in the LXX some 300 years before Christ was born. The ONLY thing that will drive them as a nation to "jealousy" is the harpazo, sadly.
edit on 17-4-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)
I have a copy of the JPS Hebrew version of the OT and it reads just as accurately to me as any version. This version took 60 years to translate by Jewish Rabbis. I do get what you are saying though. They are blinded until Jesus wakes them for the most part. It was Joseph that had to wake his brothers.
reply to post by EnochWasRight
In Genesis, this happened in the second year of the famine. From my vantage point, I see this happening next year or in 2014. Watch for it. Also, watch for an East wind that takes away the harvest. If Genesis is an accurate portrayal, the schedule is set. Read Psalm 114 as 2014.
Hey Sinny - I can tell you that I have been saved Twice in my life, that is baptized by the Holy Spirit - The First when I was 13yrs and many years later 20 or so "long after forgetting Jesus and God The Farther" I found myself praying my way out of a situation Loop "something that just kept occurring, same dialog but different people" at some point in can no longer be coincidence " but the second time was much different as it was a real strange physical experience. If I had to describe it I would point to the movie Ghost as there is a seen with Whoopy doing some kind of spirit reading.
Do you really suppose Jesus may reveal himself soon (next year or 2014)? If so... how do you think he may do it?
Originally posted by EnochWasRight
reply to post by MESSAGEFROMTHESTARS
Being that you reference Saint Augustine of Hippo... would you be willing to entertain the following question.
It appears that you seemingly have concluded many of the meanings behind numbers, and their uses with in biblical texts. Which leads me to the question...
What does the number 7 mean, and also the importance of the apple as it relates to knowledge? It may be more appropriate to address this question in a new thread, but a simple answer will suffice.
Chuck Missler does a good job of explaining 7. Video below.
As for the apple, it's only called the fruit of knowledge. There is never a mention of an apple. We make the assumption that is never referenced in scripture. Fruit is what grows from a source to produce changed states in matter. This is closely related to collapsing wave function and the laws that govern our universe. The law is set toward good and away from evil. Example.
What happens when you smoke? You get cancer. The law is set to create a debt when something is taken. I like to think of this as taking a reward that was not earned. Taking reward creates debt that must be paid. This is why the thieves own us 15 trillion dollars from the Federal Reserve ponzi scheme of the petrol dollar scam. The Fed is an ATM, backed by oil revenue coming in, that allows a blank check loan to the thieves. The debt is then left for the people to work off as inflation closes the gap between debt and value. The loan is never paid back by the thieves. Bernard Madoff showed us how its done. He's the archetype.
Flip the direction and see the truth. Suffering on purpose creates true reward. We can only see lasting reward for others when we give instead of take. Work for the reward and it comes in multiples. Suffer an education and get a better job. Suffer a job and get a paycheck. There is no way around the law. It's set. The fruit is what we produce or take for use. All the fruit of the garden was available for use because God suffered the work to produce it for us. We TOOK the fruit that was at the center of the garden (Technology) and transmuted it for our own false images.
Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by EnochWasRight
I have a copy of the JPS Hebrew version of the OT and it reads just as accurately to me as any version. This version took 60 years to translate by Jewish Rabbis. I do get what you are saying though. They are blinded until Jesus wakes them for the most part. It was Joseph that had to wake his brothers.
I'm not denying the spiritual blindness pronounced on them by Christ, and it will be lifted at the rapture, or when the "fullness" comes into the Kingdom (Romans 11:25). But also what I said is true, read Isaiah 53 to a Jew sometime from the KJV.
They will go ballistic because they think we are teaching them about "our Jesus". He is their Jesus too, sadly they cannot see.
edit on 17-4-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)edit on 17-4-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by dontlaughthink
reply to post by EnochWasRight
I would like to point out that all life on this planet is carbon based .... why did God make all life using 6 protons 6 electrons 6 neutrons ...... 666 the number of the beast ......without carbon there would be no life ...is everything a devil
I think you misunderstood my question a little... Do you have any information as to St.Augustine's interpretation of the number 7? The reason I ask, is that I remember reading a while back, some where, about him and his fascination with the number 7... As to the apple, that answer will suffice, thanks. The reason I brought it up, was not necessarily because of the story in the texts, but rather a painting by Philippe de Champaigne of St.Augustine. Regardless, it's obvious to be symbolic.
St. Augustine of Hippo (A.D. 354 - 430) wrote " Numbers are the Universal language offered by the deity to humans as confirmation of the truth." Similar to Pythagoras, he too believed that everything had numerical relationships and it was up to the mind to seek and investigate the secrets of these relationships or have them revealed by divine grace. In 325 A.D., following the First Council of Nicaea, departures from the beliefs of the state Church were classified as civil violations within the Roman Empire. Numerology had not found favor with the Christian authority of the day and was assigned to the field of unapproved beliefs along with astrology and other forms of divination and "magic." Through this religious purging, the spiritual significance assigned to the heretofore "sacred" numbers began to disappear. An example of the influence of numerology in English literature is Sir Thomas Browne's 1658 Discourse The Garden of Cyrus. In it the author illustrates that the number five and related Quincunx pattern throughout art, nature and mysticism.
Seven: Perfection (Completeness)
Notable Uses
Seven days in a week.
Seven of the 10 commandments begin with the word "not."
7 seals, 7 trumpets, 7 parables in Matthew, and 7 promises to the churches.
There are 7 "eternals" in Hebrews which are:
A priest for ever (1:6)
Eternal salvation (1:9)
Eternal judgment (6:2)
Eternal redemption (9:12)
Eternal spirit (9:14)
Eternal inheritance (9:15)
Everlasting covenant (13:20)
Jesus said 7 things on the cross:
Luke 23:34 "Jesus said, "Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing." And they divided up his clothes by casting lots
Luke 23:43 Jesus answered him, "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise"
Matthew 27:46 About the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?" -- which means, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"
John 19:26 "When Jesus saw his mother there, and the disciple whom he loved standing nearby, he said to his mother, "Dear woman, here is your son"
John 19:28 "Later, knowing that all was now completed, and so that the Scripture would be fulfilled, Jesus said, "I am thirsty."
John 19:30 "When he had received the drink, Jesus said, "It is finished." With that, he bowed his head and gave up his spirit"
Luke 23:46 "Jesus called out with a loud voice, "Father, into your hands I commit my spirit." When he had said this, he breathed his last."
Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by MamaJ
Do you really suppose Jesus may reveal himself soon (next year or 2014)? If so... how do you think he may do it?
He could reveal Himself to gather the bride at any second, but a careful study of the text and an understanding of Hebraisms says it will be at the Feast of Trumpets, look for Him every year in the fall. But in order for Him to come back "in the clouds" for "every eye to see" there must be quite a few things happen first, many things.
Originally posted by dontlaughthink
reply to post by EnochWasRight
I would like to point out that all life on this planet is carbon based .... why did God make all life using 6 protons 6 electrons 6 neutrons ...... 666 the number of the beast ......without carbon there would be no life ...is everything a devil
Originally posted by EnochWasRight
reply to post by MESSAGEFROMTHESTARS
Interesting. I found this.
St. Augustine of Hippo (A.D. 354 - 430) wrote " Numbers are the Universal language offered by the deity to humans as confirmation of the truth." Similar to Pythagoras, he too believed that everything had numerical relationships and it was up to the mind to seek and investigate the secrets of these relationships or have them revealed by divine grace. In 325 A.D., following the First Council of Nicaea, departures from the beliefs of the state Church were classified as civil violations within the Roman Empire. Numerology had not found favor with the Christian authority of the day and was assigned to the field of unapproved beliefs along with astrology and other forms of divination and "magic." Through this religious purging, the spiritual significance assigned to the heretofore "sacred" numbers began to disappear. An example of the influence of numerology in English literature is Sir Thomas Browne's 1658 Discourse The Garden of Cyrus. In it the author illustrates that the number five and related Quincunx pattern throughout art, nature and mysticism.
The same document had this to say about seven.
Seven: Perfection (Completeness)
Notable Uses
Seven days in a week.
Seven of the 10 commandments begin with the word "not."
7 seals, 7 trumpets, 7 parables in Matthew, and 7 promises to the churches.
There are 7 "eternals" in Hebrews which are:
A priest for ever (1:6)
Eternal salvation (1:9)
Eternal judgment (6:2)
Eternal redemption (9:12)
Eternal spirit (9:14)
Eternal inheritance (9:15)
Everlasting covenant (13:20)
Jesus said 7 things on the cross:
Luke 23:34 "Jesus said, "Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing." And they divided up his clothes by casting lots
Luke 23:43 Jesus answered him, "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise"
Matthew 27:46 About the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?" -- which means, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"
John 19:26 "When Jesus saw his mother there, and the disciple whom he loved standing nearby, he said to his mother, "Dear woman, here is your son"
John 19:28 "Later, knowing that all was now completed, and so that the Scripture would be fulfilled, Jesus said, "I am thirsty."
John 19:30 "When he had received the drink, Jesus said, "It is finished." With that, he bowed his head and gave up his spirit"
Luke 23:46 "Jesus called out with a loud voice, "Father, into your hands I commit my spirit." When he had said this, he breathed his last."
I did another search but didn't come across anything. I did, however, find many interesting items that sent other directions.
Ophiuchus (play /ˌɒfiːˈjuːkəs/) is a large constellation located around the celestial equator. Its name is from the Greek Ὀφιοῦχος "serpent-bearer", and it is commonly represented as a man grasping the snake that is represented by the constellation Serpens. Ophiuchus was one of the 48 constellations listed by the 2nd-century astronomer Ptolemy, and it remains one of the 88 modern constellations. It was formerly referred to as Serpentarius (/ˌsɜrpənˈtɛəriəs/; also Anguitenens), a Latin word meaning the same as its current name.
The most obvious use of numerology in the bible(to me any ways) is the following:
Job 5:19
He shall deliver you in six troubles: yes, in seven there shall no evil touch you
Also, although it may seem subjective at first, but the orientation to the texts and numbers that represent the chapters and verses seeming fit the words themselves. In order to truly appreciate this, one must have a truly deep understanding of numbers. Not some embellished new school understanding, but the way it used to be...
Here's a link to a thread I started a little while back in regards to numbers and the bible that you undoubtedly would be interested in...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
To make you think a little...
Think about what the number 13 means, more so, think about what it means in relation to the 13th step on the Mayan pyramid, the 13 original colonies, the 13 stars in the star of david on the dollar bill and so forth...
Now think about how it relates to the following:
Revelations 13:1
And the dragon stood on the shore of the sea. And I saw a beast coming out of the sea. He had ten horns and seven heads, with ten crowns on his horns, and on each head a blasphemous name.
Also, this might be a hard one to get across, but multiplication is no stranger to numerology, and it's use in representing something..., it may be helpful to understand this point if one were to think of multiples, instead of using the word multiplication. And how in language the world 'by' or 'of' may reference this very notion..
Number 4, Justice
Number 6, Man
Justice of man, or, justice by man... 4x6
= 24
Then you have this...
Revelation 4:4
Surrounding the throne were twenty-four other thrones, and seated on them were twenty-four elders. They were dressed in white and had crowns of gold on their heads.
Again, with in chapter 4, verse 4
This may then shed light onto why they fell(24 elders)
I'm not going to beat a dead horse, but this is seemingly to be the case.
Originally posted by EnochWasRight
Super interesting. I read it all. Riddle me this: Without me telling you why, give me the significance of these two numbers: 966 and 996
How do they relate in connection with each other? Gematria is a key to knowing.
I want to hear your idea on the first riddle. On the 2nd, I have my own view, noted below.
2nd Riddle.
Jesus in English Gematria is 444. Lucifer in English Gematria is 444. IESOUS is 888
Revelation 22:16 "I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star."
Rev 2:28 (NIV) I will also give him the morning star.
Numbers 24:17
17 “I see him, but not now;
I behold him, but not near.
A star will come out of Jacob;
a scepter will rise out of Israel.
He will crush the foreheads of Moab,
the skulls[a] of all the people of Sheth.
Matthew 2:2
and asked, "Where is the one who has been born king of the Jews? We saw his star in the east and have come to worship him."
Luke 1:78
because of the tender mercy of our God, by which the rising sun will come to us from heaven
2Pet 1:19 (NIV) And we have the word of the prophets made more certain, and you will do well to pay attention to it, as to a light shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts.
Isa 14:12-15 (NIV) How you have fallen from heaven, O morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations! You said in your heart, "I will ascend to heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars of God; I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly, on the utmost heights of the sacred mountain. I will ascend above the tops of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High." But you are brought down to the grave, to the depths of the pit.
Mat 23:12 "For whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted."
Jesus is the true morning star. Lucifer is the counterfeit. When Jesus defeats the fake, he earns the value of 888. This happened 2000 years ago.
444 - The fourth Element is synthesized in stars and is short-lived. Beryllium has 4 protons, 4 electrons and 4 neutrons. It is divalent, which means it has a valence of two, forming two bonds with other ions or molecules. Gemstones containing beryllium include beryl and Chrysoberyl. Chrysoberyl comes from the Greek: chrysos meaning 'golden'. 'Beryl' is from the Greek berrulos, meaning 'crystal'. Chrysoberyl means Golden Crystal. It's one of the world's rarest gyms. The largest cut stone is in the Smithsonian (66 carats).
I have a copy of the JPS Hebrew version of the OT and it reads just as accurately to me as any version. This version took 60 years to translate by Jewish Rabbis. I do get what you are saying though. They are blinded until Jesus wakes them for the most part. It was Joseph that had to wake his brothers.