I fear I tend to associate polls with the quantification of imbecility; but I wonder at the word "compromising" here.
How exactly is a "civil liberty" compromised? Were the Japanese Americans in 1942 "compromised"?
Looks like a fertile field in principle -but I'd eschew poll-speak.

It's not just Bush...It's been *every* administration since further back than I was born. BTW CG, I believe I'm a bit older than you are...

All this Bush bashing boggles my mind.As far as I can tell he is no better or worse than any other President in the last 100 years. On top of that, most Presidents seem to be figure heads.They have limited power.


FYI, If you care to some more of CG's stuff, he's at the black vault .com everyday. Same stuff,only most people there don,t argue with him.

I'm with Estragon.

Some of the fundamental changes to Americans' legal rights by the Bush administration and the USA Patriot Act following the terror attacks:

* FREEDOM OF ASSOCIATION: Government may monitor religious and political institutions without suspecting criminal activity to assist terror investigation.

* FREEDOM OF INFORMATION: Government has closed once-public immigration hearings, has secretly detained hundreds of people without charges, and has encouraged bureaucrats to resist public records requests.

* FREEDOM OF SPEECH: Government may prosecute librarians or keepers of any other records if they tell anyone that the government subpoenaed information related to a terror investigation.

* RIGHT TO LEGAL REPRESENTATION: Government may monitor federal prison jailhouse conversations between attorneys and clients, and deny lawyers to Americans accused of crimes.

* FREEDOM FROM UNREASONABLE SEARCHES: Government may search and seize Americans' papers and effects without probable cause to assist terror investigation.

* RIGHT TO A SPEEDY AND PUBLIC TRIAL: Government may jail Americans indefinitely without a trial.

* RIGHT TO LIBERTY: Americans may be jailed without being charged or being able to confront witnesses against them.

Because it hasn't happened to you yet , does not mean it won't! Knowing many a police officer, most of the above has been in practice for, well, forever. Only difference is that it's now ON PAPER & OFFICIAL!

Well I guess u have to strike a balance between civil liberties and protection.

If you call *that* "balanced" then you've never had one of your ancestors talk about what it was like to live under Hitler...

Yep, my Grandfather (Mother's side) left Germany just as Hitler was cracking down on the people...He got out just before Hitler could remove his right to travel. He was smart enough to see what was coming & decided to beat feet outta there.

On a bit of an ironic side note, his travel arrangements had overbooked passage on the first available ship, so they had to change him to another ship. If it hadn't been for that clerical error, there was a very good chance that I'd never been born...The ship he was originally booked for was the Titanic...

Originally posted by MidnightDStroyer

On a bit of an ironic side note, his travel arrangements had overbooked passage on the first available ship, so they had to change him to another ship. If it hadn't been for that clerical error, there was a very good chance that I'd never been born...The ship he was originally booked for was the Titanic...

Insane.. You are a lucky man. Oh.. so was your grandpa

Yeah...

And my Mom too...
Another ironic happenstance that still has nothing to do with the topic in general is that my parents had 2 kids...I was the second one born. My Mother had a miscarriage in between the two actual births. So, in a way, my family has beaten the odds at least twice so that I could be born & grow up to be here today...

..You lucky people, you...

MD,

Eh... Didn't the Titanic sink in 1912?

Ssshhh, Kegs, don't confuse M-D's story with the facts!

He's right...But my Grandfather was pretty old when he died & that was more than 30 years ago. My Grandad was born *before* George Burns. Don't mistake me for being a mere sprout; I'm in my 40's.


[Edited on 20-3-2003 by MidnightDStroyer]

And you still cling to those teenage left-leaning beliefs of yours?

Relax, buddy, just poking a little fun at you. Feel free to fire back!

If you're not a liberal by age 20, you don't have a heart. If you're
not a conservative by age 40, you don't have a brain.
-- P.J. O'Rourke



[Edited on 20-3-2003 by Thomas Crowne]

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne

If you're not a liberal by age 20, you don't have a heart. If you're not a conservative by age 40, you don't have a brain.
-- P.J. O'Rourke

Hey ! I wasn't a liberal when I was 20 years old ( in fact, I've never been a liberal , even in my worse nightmare !!!

But I had a heart and I still have it.

Yeah, I was a lot more liberal in my youth...But I seem to have steadied myself out as *logical* & *practical* person rather than *leaning* one way or the other to any extreme.

BTW, I still have a heart...It used to belong to a politician & I keep it proudly displayed, pickled in a jar. He wasn't very reluctant to give it up for some reason...He said that he didn't need it to do his job.



[Edited on 21-3-2003 by MidnightDStroyer]

So you're the one who removes the hearts of politicians. Are you also the one that removes their brains?

U-P, I was a mild liberal when I was a kid, due to 1) I was young and without facts, 2) my teachers were liberal and provided me with less than factual information, and 3) I allowed my emotions to rule the day.

Emotions are good, they keep us from being machines. But allowing emotions to drive you is dangerous. Erroneous information is dangerous as well, but you put the two together and you have disaster. Or a liberal.

...Maybe the human race should take the route of the Vulcans from Star Trek...

Not a good idea, M-D. What would happen to Comedy Central?