What is Right and Wrong?

Originally posted by ACTS 2:38

That is the gospel of the worldly there is no good or evil; like if enough people decide killing their loved ones for the gain of money is ok then it will be good.

I think they usually only do stuff like that in religious texts or based upon religious doctrine, however I could be mistaken.

Or what about stealing, we all know robbery is bad it takes what some one worked hard for and rips it away. But yeah taking pencils from the company you work at is not really stealing because they make bunches of money so they can afford to lose it.

All are evil that do not know God and some that do.

What about in cases like mine where I owned the company? If I paid for those pencils, then in essence I'm re-appropriating, not stealing.

Do you ever steal from others?

Never.

Do you ever lie even a little lie?

I do occasionally say thing that may be untrue like "No, I don't mind you borrowing my ____. " No biggie.

Have you ever looked at another in lust?

Yep.

Have you ever thought some one dead?

Elvis? He's alive? I really don't understand the question.

If you have which if you say no you just lied, you are evil as I am the only difference is I have accepted Jesus as my Lord and savior and I work daily to make sure not to break his commandments or to transgress his precepts and remove iniquity from my heart.

The difference is that you make your choices based on fear of eternal damnation, whereas I base my choices on what I believe to be right and wrong.

By "thought someone dead" I believe he/she is asking if you have ever wished someone was to die or suffer, as that is considered a sin in the Judeo/Christian belief system.

Now, that said, I didn't really want this to become a bash-fest against Christianity, nor any other religious standpoint; and discussing if they in and of themselves are correct. That would be more towards a "you guys are stupid because" type post, of which there is an abundance on ATS.

You are correct, some follow Christianity based on "fire insurace" to keep you out of hell, but some of us are Christian based on the desire to honour the One we see as the Creator. Not all of us are doing it for a crutch, or from fear, or whatever assumptions you have otherwise.

That said, what method do you use to determine how you see the cultural norms for right and wrong? What makes you feel the way you do about "gray areas"? Why are there even gray areas in the first place?

Originally posted by IronArm
By "thought someone dead" I believe he/she is asking if you have ever wished someone was to die or suffer, as that is considered a sin in the Judeo/Christian belief system.

Doing so would violate my personal and professional belief system. I can't, however, say that if someone were attempting to harm me or a family member or friend I wouldn't harbor such feelings. Luckily we don't prosecute people based on what they would do, but rather on what they've already done.

Now, that said, I didn't really want this to become a bash-fest against Christianity, nor any other religious standpoint; and discussing if they in and of themselves are correct. That would be more towards a "you guys are stupid because" type post, of which there is an abundance on ATS.

Agreed. This is about right and wrong, to which I replied that belief in god isn't necessary to understand and appreciate the the differences between the two.

You are correct, some follow Christianity based on "fire insurace" to keep you out of hell, but some of us are Christian based on the desire to honour the One we see as the Creator. Not all of us are doing it for a crutch, or from fear, or whatever assumptions you have otherwise.

I've always said that life isn't about absolutes. There is good and bad in almost everything, just in varying degrees and intensities.

That said, what method do you use to determine how you see the cultural norms for right and wrong? What makes you feel the way you do about "gray areas"? Why are there even gray areas in the first place?

I believe that a lot of what we find acceptable is based on what we learn while growing up. Such values are then reinforced through responsible parenting. Like all ethical questions, there are always exceptions to the rule and grey areas, but that's part of human nature, and will vary even amongst those with similar belief structures.

I am an Agnostic and a spiritual person. Trying to find my own path. Right and wrong are two extremes of the spectrum. I guess it is for the observer to decide. I would say on one side you have Harmony and on the other side Pain. If you put out good or negative or positive and negative karma. I would consider it wrong to raise your hand and beat animals or people ( family, friends, ect. ) . I think for a long time society tried to engrain in us what is accepted as right and wrong whatever religion you believe in, America is the great melting pot.

right is absolute freedom
wrong is relative freedom

wrong is like accepting else things to b urself real through, wrong is meaning ur superiority from else inferiority or comparaison with, wrong is when u r selfish in the sense that u mean being a thing to ur freedom reality

right is like realizing constantly a point at least free of being urself free, right is pointing objective superiority being free, right is meaning others positive freedom positively, right is seeking to move or say smthg out of nothing and keeping repeating it till u reach a still freedom existence constancy

Originally posted by ~Vixen~

Originally posted by ACTS 2:38

That is the gospel of the worldly there is no good or evil; like if enough people decide killing their loved ones for the gain of money is ok then it will be good.

I think they usually only do stuff like that in religious texts or based upon religious doctrine, however I could be mistaken.

Or what about stealing, we all know robbery is bad it takes what some one worked hard for and rips it away. But yeah taking pencils from the company you work at is not really stealing because they make bunches of money so they can afford to lose it.

All are evil that do not know God and some that do.

What about in cases like mine where I owned the company? If I paid for those pencils, then in essence I'm re-appropriating, not stealing.

Do you ever steal from others?

Never.

Do you ever lie even a little lie?

I do occasionally say thing that may be untrue like "No, I don't mind you borrowing my ____. " No biggie.

Have you ever looked at another in lust?

Yep.

Have you ever thought some one dead?

Elvis? He's alive? I really don't understand the question.

If you have which if you say no you just lied, you are evil as I am the only difference is I have accepted Jesus as my Lord and savior and I work daily to make sure not to break his commandments or to transgress his precepts and remove iniquity from my heart.

The difference is that you make your choices based on fear of eternal damnation, whereas I base my choices on what I believe to be right and wrong.

If you own the company it is your belongings.

If you ever wished harm or some one to be dead in your heart or mind you are violent person who has not acted upon their desire yet.

If you are a married person who lusts after others you have committed adultery and are untrue to your spouse.

Some of these examples seem to the person of today as mundane yet they are opposites of good and evil.

If one does not believe that acts of even little bad are not harmful to others then they are very callous to the fact that law of physics for every action there is a equal and opposite reaction. That includes life some will not perform a physical action because they can forgive yet it does scare the mind.

My point that I wish to make but most of the time can not convey in words is Good and Evil are absolute.
We all no the difference of the two just many today wish to cross the line, which is definitely black and white, there is no shade of grey. Like the adage choosing the lesser of two evils, they are both evil.

Sin is bad and removes you father from God, and it takes belief in Jesus and repentance to wash the sins away to make it to heaven.

Originally posted by ACTS 2:38

If you ever wished harm or some one to be dead in your heart or mind you are violent person who has not acted upon their desire yet.

So because I believe that protecting my loved one is a prudent choice, I'm violent? What does your bible say about defending your family? What is the benefit of having a strong male figure as the "head of household" if not to protect and defend?

If you are a married person who lusts after others you have committed adultery and are untrue to your spouse.

I'm a widow, and was absolutely faithful to my husband when he was alive. That being said, your bible says that by virtue of the death of my husband, I'm a scourge to be avoided, considered to be on the same level as a prostitute, and unworthy of ever being in another relationship.

Leviticus 21:14 A widow, or a divorced woman, or profane, or an harlot, these shall he not take: but he shall take a virgin of his own people to wife.

My point that I wish to make but most of the time can not convey in words is Good and Evil are absolute. We all no the difference of the two just many today wish to cross the line, which is definitely black and white, there is no shade of grey. Like the adage choosing the lesser of two evils, they are both evil.

If good and bad are absolute, then all crime should then be treated as the same... i.e. unintentional manslaughter, killing in self defense and premeditated murder. When I ask how I look and someone replies "you look fine" knowing that may not totally be true, that is to be treated the same as testifying in court that I saw Mr. X kill Mr. Y even if I didn't. Both are lies, but I consider one MUCH more serious than the other.

Sin is bad and removes you father from God, and it takes belief in Jesus and repentance to wash the sins away to make it to heaven.

I believe in right and wrong, not sin. I believe that Jesus bore a great message, but I don't believe that he was the son of a god since I don't believe in god. Certainly not a loving and caring god. Any god that would absolve the wrongdoings of people because they said "sorry" (i.e. repentence) but would sentence to eternal damnation someone who spent their time preserving life, donating to charity and dedicating their energy to help those in need is NOT a god I would want to spend forever with.

The part in the Bible about widows being of poor status...really it was just a perogative to keep the whole of the Israelite nation free from STDs and so on, which truely can only be obtained by sexual contact with multiple partners. Not as an insult towards widows, but rather for national safety, as was all the original laws.

Good and Bad are absolute according to the Bible, and peneance of some sort was to be paid for any killing in some way or another.

The term "sin" came from a greek word meaning 'missing the target' as in someone who misses a bullseye in archery. In the instance of "sin" the purpose is to show a falling short of the target of Godly behavior.

Originally posted by ~Vixen~

Originally posted by ACTS 2:38

If you ever wished harm or some one to be dead in your heart or mind you are violent person who has not acted upon their desire yet.

So because I believe that protecting my loved one is a prudent choice, I'm violent? What does your bible say about defending your family? What is the benefit of having a strong male figure as the "head of household" if not to protect and defend?

If you are a married person who lusts after others you have committed adultery and are untrue to your spouse.

I'm a widow, and was absolutely faithful to my husband when he was alive. That being said, your bible says that by virtue of the death of my husband, I'm a scourge to be avoided, considered to be on the same level as a prostitute, and unworthy of ever being in another relationship.

Leviticus 21:14 A widow, or a divorced woman, or profane, or an harlot, these shall he not take: but he shall take a virgin of his own people to wife.

You did not read the rest of the verse you quoted this talks about the Old Testament priest. 1st Tim 5 speaks of how widows are to be now, and it is not a case of avoid.

[

Protecting your family is a God given right, men are to protect the household from all harm including that of sin.
And women are also to protect the family.


Proverbs 31
[10] Who can find a virtuous woman? for her price is far above rubies.
[11] The heart of her husband doth safely trust in her, so that he shall have no need of spoil.
[12] She will do him good and not evil all the days of her life.
[13] She seeketh wool, and flax, and worketh willingly with her hands.
[14] She is like the merchants' ships; she bringeth her food from afar.
[15] She riseth also while it is yet night, and giveth meat to her household, and a portion to her maidens.
[16] She considereth a field, and buyeth it: with the fruit of her hands she planteth a vineyard.
[17] She girdeth her loins with strength, and strengtheneth her arms.
[18] She perceiveth that her merchandise is good: her candle goeth not out by night.
[19] She layeth her hands to the spindle, and her hands hold the distaff.
[20] She stretcheth out her hand to the poor; yea, she reacheth forth her hands to the needy.
[21] She is not afraid of the snow for her household: for all her household are clothed with scarlet.
[22] She maketh herself coverings of tapestry; her clothing is silk and purple.
[23] Her husband is known in the gates, when he sitteth among the elders of the land.
[24] She maketh fine linen, and selleth it; and delivereth girdles unto the merchant.
[25] Strength and honour are her clothing; and she shall rejoice in time to come.
[26] She openeth her mouth with wisdom; and in her tongue is the law of kindness.
[27] She looketh well to the ways of her household, and eateth not the bread of idleness.

The Bible is very clear that a women is the treasure of a man not a possession that he can do with as he will but a help mate that is to be his right hand and he her protector and her had also.

edit on 19-4-2012 by ACTS 2:38 because: (no reason given)

reply to post by IronArm


All notions of right and wrong have their basis in religion. We are not born with innate senses of right and wrong. Watch any 2 year old play. They want what they want, they have to learn concepts like patience and sharing, and moderation.

The natural world doesn't have guilt. Animals intentionally prey on the young and weak. Rape is the norm for reproduction, no consensual agreements. Animals take and hoard whatever resources they can find, with no regard to their fellow animals, nor the environment in general. Locusts and Ants will devastate a landscape and starve out their competitors, and sometimes even devastate their own ability to survive.

Right and Wrong are relative concepts related to religion.

Cannibalism is right in some societies, so are women as chattel, and so is slavery, and so is euthanasia, etc., etc., etc.

Right and Wrong are human religious concepts.

Every situation calls for something different but self realization of the God principle is the highest aim in life, realizing ones own divinity.

Originally posted by Lord Jules
Every situation calls for something different but self realization of the God principle is the highest aim in life, realizing ones own divinity.

Respect all. Allow what will be to be. And just be. This is what God does, and God is seen in all when God becomes like God. God is the all within the all. God is what we are. So to be that, all you have to do is just be. From there, its about respect. Do not judge. Do this, and you will learn that we are angels.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by IronArm

 

All notions of right and wrong have their basis in religion. We are not born with innate senses of right and wrong. Watch any 2 year old play. They want what they want, they have to learn concepts like patience and sharing, and moderation.

The natural world doesn't have guilt. Animals intentionally prey on the young and weak. Rape is the norm for reproduction, no consensual agreements. Animals take and hoard whatever resources they can find, with no regard to their fellow animals, nor the environment in general. Locusts and Ants will devastate a landscape and starve out their competitors, and sometimes even devastate their own ability to survive.

Right and Wrong are relative concepts related to religion.

Cannibalism is right in some societies, so are women as chattel, and so is slavery, and so is euthanasia, etc., etc., etc.

Right and Wrong are human religious concepts.

Also note, animals do not have higher understanding, nor do they have a concience; correct?

reply to post by IronArm


I don't know what animals understand, I can only observe their actions, not their thoughts.

Hmmm. Hi, like the questions your thread poses, especially in this age of "relativity." But I am not a believer in that. I don't accept that garden of eden story, or most of what we have been told is the Bible. I believe there was a sacred text, but wherever here is, we don't have the real one. And knowledge of good and evil or anything else could never be the problem. Perhaps our response to it, or what we do once we have it.

As far as good and evil in general, the book, "The Road Less Traveled," and another book by M. Scott Peck talk about the danger of identifying evil, and the problem of becoming evil yourself in doing so.
Having said that, what I would describe as wrong is hurting that which cannot defend itself, the helpless. Or also, removing from life any chance at homeostasis, balance, equilibrium, "happiness," which nature causes it to seek, so that it is forever out of kilter.....understand I use "it," when I intend to include, but not limit to, human life (he/she) just using the it to encompass all life and genders.

In short, I don't need, nor do I think mankind needs, some rule book to teach us what is right and wrong. It's patently obvious by your own experience. If you have ever been in physical, much less emotional, pain at the hands of another, and unable to defend yourself, I think it totally clarifies this question for you.....