Man Fined $1500.00 for Looking for a Job

Seriously, this is not unheard of. It takes certification to do any type of electrical work in houses wether it is "rough-in" construction installing, or "service". This guy isn't being written up because he is looking for a job, it is because he is advertising his services for his failure to properly show his certification for such electrical work, and charging cheaper prices than a certified electricians.

This guy should have known there was a Dept. of Labor Anyone being written up with a costly citation sucks.. but you gotta know that there are some things you can do without advertising them for the wrong people to see. Point and case is, this is a simple case of enforcing business regulation.. sorry it's not on the bureaucrats this time (IMHO)

The law:

A person, firm, partnership, corporation or other entity who violates a provision of chapter 19.28 RCW or chapter 296-46B WAC is liable for a civil penalty based upon the following schedule. (1) Offering to perform, submitting a bid for, advertising, installing or maintaining cables, conductors or equipment: (a) That convey or utilize electrical current without having a valid electrical contractor's license.

The Ad in question:

SKILLED Maintenance and repair. Electrical, Plumbing, Painting, Caulking, and much more… COMPETENCE makes all jobs easy! $25 per hour 2 hour minimum job(s) Please call Russ Hinds at 292-**** for pleasant service or job quote. Cell # 775-770-****

Pretty obvious violation of a clearly-stated law.

this is one of those things where less is more on the advert even if by only one word and find out what is required to call yourself an qualified electrician and what isn't and use those exact wording in your adverts such as bulb replacement but try and leave it as vague as possible so there is room to wiggle should it come to court

but those rules look stricter than here in the uk where all you have to do is prove you are competent and while some exams will help it doesnt require that you have them to do anything this side of the electricty companies meter

Multiple problems here. Yes, I read the blog entry. I also live in Washington. Guys who hire themselves out as "handymen" tread a precarious line here. I think a lot of posters are making an unfounded assumption that "electrical work" means "moving an outlet." That's YOUR assumption. The notice SAID "electrical work." That can mean anything, including wiring the house for a generator.

The fact is, in Washington State, the state controls anything electrical. When you build a house, the inspection for framing, insulation, plumbing, etc. is all done by the County or City, but electrical is a state inspection. I don't think anyone would ding someone for moving an outlet, but once you expose yourself, which this guy did, he caught their attention.

I had to get a permit prior to my outfitting the house with a transfer panel for a generator. Here's what the permit says, verbatim:

Property Owner. This is your permanent record of inspection. Failure to post prior to beginning work will result in civil penalties.

They also want to know the contractor's name and license number. When the inspector arrived, he inspected EVERY single wire to the panel. It was what I call a painstaking inspection that left nothing to chance. Because I have an inspection, that saves me from liability, too. If something were to go wrong in the future with this installation, the state is the one that is potentially liable because they inspected and approved it. This guy was potentially circumventing that. If he did any serious electrical work, he was putting the homeowner at risk.

The second problem here is State Industrial Insurance. If you hire a contractor and he gets hurt on the job, Industrial Insurance pays for his injuries. If you hire someone without this, you are liable for injuries. I opened up bids to paint my house a couple of years ago. I got three bids, one from an "unlicensed" handyman who actually bid higher than the licensed contractor I hired. He also wanted money "under the table" so he wouldn't have to pay taxes on it. The thing is, the guy I did hire nearly fell off the roof. He was on a ladder when it broke away from the gutter. He was balanced a storey up over a concrete driveway. Had I not been there to respond to his pleas of help, he may very well have seriously hurt himself. It's in the best interests of a homeowner to hire licensed people for any but the easiest, safest, most mundane work.

The third problem is, of course, that his guy wanted to work completely for cash under the table. I'll bet he did not have a business license, which is a trivial expense most places. I can't do that. I have to pay taxes on the money I make. Don't expect me to have much sympathy for someone who does not. He's perfectly capable of following the rules. He just chose not to.

What really happened here is that you have a guy who wanted to work off the grid, but he advertised on the grid, and got caught. If he'd shut up about it and worked via word of mouth, he could have gotten away with it. But he effectively forced the hand of the state by being so blatant. Once they know, they cannot legally ignore that. If they can make a case for not knowing, they can. I have been in more than one situation where an auditor has said, "I wish I didn't know that." when a conflict of interest came to light. This guy, perhaps unknowingly, shoved it in their face. Essentially what he said was, "Hey, everyone! I'm willing to commit illegal acts and work under the table here and circumvent paying taxes." That's hardly an outrage. If you think so, fine, but I doubt you're going to get many people worked up about it. In the final analysis, he doesn't have a leg to stand on.

reply to post by stanguilles7


WRONG.

He will win this case. As long as he is not railroaded by a mediator or adjudicator.
He did not mention what kind of electrical work he is experienced in.
It could have meant electrical work on a lawnmower or an automobile.
It is not blatantly expressed.

He didnt agree to do that work for anyone. He didnt set forth a bid.
This is simply a case of a government employee that has nothing better to do than to screw with someone.
The fact that he didnt sign documents and was not available for the phone meeting, says it all.

So by your rational of specifically pointing out the law you think he broke...I just offered a counter to that.

reply to post by DIDtm


The law, as cited, specifically refers to advertising for electrical work as being illegal.

He did just that.

He broke the law.

Simple.

reply to post by stanguilles7


The law is meant for homes or business's.

It is ASSUMED that is what he was advertising for.

It could be argued that he was advertising for television repair, lawn mower maintenance, or replacing a power receptor for a computer monitor.

One cannot be found guilty of ANY crime based on ASSUMPTION.

reply to post by DIDtm


You would make a very, very bad lawyer.

Originally posted by lonegurkha
reply to post by Magnum007

 

Under the first amendment you can say whatever you want. It doesn't have to be true. Yes you could post that, The problem would come if you acted upon it. If some one was foolish enough to hire you to do sugery on them, then you would be in trouble. Saying and doing are two different things.

Frankly you demonstrate a lack of understanding of the difference between saying and doing.

edit on 4/16/2012 by lonegurkha because: (no reason given)

WRONG WRONG WRONG

Why is some speech restricted?

Exceptions to free speech have arisen over the years when the government has decided the speech could cause substantial harm to the public, is not speech originally intended to be protected by the Bill of Rights, or other case-specific reasons. In any event, when deciding whether an instance of suppression of free speech is constitutional, the courts must weigh the importance of the freedom of speech against potential dangers if the speech is allowed.

www.legalzoom.com...

You CANNOT run into a crowded building and yell FIRE FIRE FIRE when there is no fire. That would cause unnecessary harm to others while they freak out and flee the scene possibly causing trampling and so on.

The guy was advertising something dangerous.....a job that could kill and cause harm....while not be legally licensed.

As others have said....no different than saying that you watch shows like ER or Grays Anatomy and can now perform medical procedures

Originally posted by lonegurkha
So this argument holds no weight. he said he could do electrical work. In his blog he explains that this meant that he could replace a switch or outlet. it never said anything about rewiring a house.

Just for the record, if someone advertises he can do "electrical work" I do not assume he can ONLY replace a lightbulb. I expect that he can rewire things.

If all he meant was that he can change a switch or an outlet, then he should've been more specific, or left it out entirely.

And if I caught up correctly, I think he's involved in this thread? Well I'm sorry to tell you, you made a mistake. You can fight it and you might even win, but I still suspect you won't use the term "electrical work" on future advertisements. Lessons learned.


"Handyman" should suffice anyway - "general contractor" maybe? Why don't you just get a license? Then you can call it whatever you want.

It makes no difference to me what you meant with your terminology - what matters to me is safety concerns.

Originally posted by DIDtm
reply to post by stanguilles7

 

WRONG.

He will win this case. As long as he is not railroaded by a mediator or adjudicator.
He did not mention what kind of electrical work he is experienced in.
It could have meant electrical work on a lawnmower or an automobile.
It is not blatantly expressed.

Nonsense.

He didnt agree to do that work for anyone. He didnt set forth a bid.

The law which he even cites in his log clearly states even ADVERTISING for those services is illegal without a proper ticket.

Simple. Educate yourself.