Man Fined $1500.00 for Looking for a Job

SPOKANE, WA: Russ Hinds wanted a break from arguing with government authorities so he packed a bicycle and rode 1000 miles over the span of 4 months. He left Klamath Falls, OR for Kalispell, MT, where he spent a peaceful month with some new found friends who try to live off the grid and under of the government‘s radar. After helping get their winter firewood in, Mr. Hinds rode his bicycle back to his father’s house in Elk, WA. Seeing that his funds were running low, Mr. Hinds printed up a flyer notifying his neighbors that he is available to perform “maintenance and repair” services for a reasonable rate, then Mr. Hinds posted the flyer on several bulletin boards at local stores. Running afoul of state bureaucrats with nothing better to do than read flyers on private owned bulletin boards never crossed his mind. Here is the wording of his flyer:

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I would like to get this out to more people, if anyone knows any good news sites that would post this information please let me know.

What was he arguing with officials about?

And what purpose does the story of his bike ride serve? I dont see how it relates to the main issue at all.

Crazy story, but doing any kind of electrical work requires a certificate, right? And any work you do needs to be signed off by a county or city official to make sure you aren't going to burn someones house down, right? So, AT THE VERY LEAST, he should have been smart enough not to openly advertise an illegal service.

I would refuse to pay the fine and flee the state. Just because some bureaucrat says that I owe him money doesn't mean that I do.

I owe a fine if I do something that results in harm or has a reasonable and legitimate risk of causing serious harm. Otherwise, it's just extortion and governmental terrorism.

would they be happy if he filed for unemployment?
the time is coming when they will be afraid of us.

I don't see anything wrong with the citation quite frankly. If he's handling electricity especially, and cannot present a license, he should be fined.

What if you hired him to work on your house, didn't ask for any proof that he could do it, and when he was finished the job - your house caught on fire and killed your spouse and children?


On page 3 if you read the citation, the reason it was issued

Offering to perform, submitting a bid for, advertising, installing, or maintaining cables, conductors, or equipment that convey or utilize electrical current without having a valid electrical contractor license.

I suspect he'll pay the fine and leave the description on his flyers a little more general in the future.
Had he only said "general maintenance/handyman", he probably wouldn't have an issue.

I agree there are loads of ridiculous laws in place, but IMHO, this one is necessary.

This is a disgraceful violation of his freedom of speech.

Washington government is out of control. Good lord I thought that New York was crooked(and they are).

Thanks for getting this out there.By the way I read the entire blog. This guy is really getting put through the ringer, and all because he posted a flyer. His rights have been denied and the officials are telling lies. Good thing he has documentation and witnesses, although it seems they are trying to deny him those as well as his day in court.

reply to post by lonegurkha

really? his freedom of speech? not the fact that he might be a flake and rewire your house wrong?

seriously?

Thats dangerous, and has nothing to do with freedom of speech.

And I'm pretty sure he's a flake if he didn't know he needed a license to be working with ELECTRICITY.

It is so bad that he can't even change a light switch or an outlet with out a permit and inspection. The excessive amount they are charging him is a bunch of crap. I am sick of all the fines and fees. It is my choice weather or not I hire this guy, it is also up to me to have the work inspected.

This is not about safety this is about the government stealing money from the little guy.

There are a lot of people who can't afford to have a licensed and bonded electrician, and a bad outlet is a fire hazard as well.

reply to post by Forevever

Originally posted by Forevever
reply to post by lonegurkha

 

really? his freedom of speech? not the fact that he might be a flake and rewire your house wrong?

seriously?

Thats dangerous, and has nothing to do with freedom of speech.

And I'm pretty sure he's a flake if he didn't know he needed a license to be working with ELECTRICITY.

In fact it is freedom of speech, the guy did not even do any work, he just advertised that he could do the job. Its not like they busted him doing the job, he did not even get the chance to do a job.

reply to post by Tygart


so you rather he kill someone before he get fined?

how bout this - we take back the citation and reissue it for false advertising then - would that work?

reply to post by Forevever

Originally posted by Forevever
reply to post by lonegurkha

 

really? his freedom of speech? not the fact that he might be a flake and rewire your house wrong?

If you are dumb enough to have a guy rewire your house based on a flyer hung in a grocery store you deserve what you get. Where's the personal responsability these days? Why are you willingly covering your eyes and letting the other people make "safe choices" for you?

Last I checked you don't need a certified electrician to replace a switch or an outlet. If you've ever done any work on your home you will end up doing minor electrical work.

This would almost be like saying you need a certified plumber to clean the hair out of your shower drain. It's absurd, unless you are dumb enough to believe it.

reply to post by litterbaux

I don't know where you live, but most of the people I've met in my life are not that bright.
This guy also was clearly not that bright. If he was any kind of professional he would've known better.

And it completely amazes me how people around here scream about "rights" for people who don't know better, but then expect everyone to take care of themselves when they want to complain about the government....
Double standard much?
Where is the love? Where is the "looking out"? But I digress.


I can't convince you and that was never my intent. Go get the laws changed if you feel that strongly about it.

I will always ask for a license when it comes to electrical work. And if they don't have one, they better expect to be fined, cause I will report them. No hiring required prior to the phone call either.


Peace.

reply to post by Forevever


I really don't think this guy was advertising himself as an electrician. Like I said in my previous post, changing an outlet or a switch doesn't require a certified electrician.

If they caught him doing new home construction, fine him. All I can see from his "ad" was he's a handyman and can replace outlets. If this went to a jury trial I'm certain most people would see it this way. Since this is dictated by the state department, the punishment is on their terms. We see it this way, you are punished. Thats the point of this thread. It's unfair.

But like you said, you're not going to change my mind. Also like you said, I wouldn't post something so stupid in a grocery store. It's dumb.

What if Mr. Hinds did some work for you and electrocuted himself on the job?
Then he could sue you for allowing him to work in "unsafe conditions' (I kid you not)
There's many good reasons electricians are licensed professionals. just like doctors.

Originally posted by Tygart
reply to post by Forevever

 

Originally posted by Forevever
reply to post by lonegurkha

 

really? his freedom of speech? not the fact that he might be a flake and rewire your house wrong?

seriously?

Thats dangerous, and has nothing to do with freedom of speech.

And I'm pretty sure he's a flake if he didn't know he needed a license to be working with ELECTRICITY.

In fact it is freedom of speech, the guy did not even do any work, he just advertised that he could do the job. Its not like they busted him doing the job, he did not even get the chance to do a job.

edit on 16-4-2012 by Tygart because: (no reason given)

He was offering to do work without a legal permit, which isn't there just to annoy joe handyman. It's there to protect the house owner. I'm sure joe is really good with a knife too, but I wouldn't let him operate on granny, you know, just because he's a good bloke.

And unless you mean they should not enforce workplace safety by ensuring that any legal permits required are valid, then all I can assume is you mean entrapment - catching him in the act after setting him up - would be an option?

Be a bit of a snot in face to those who keep their sparky tickets up to scratch, being undercut by someone doing illegal work, also I'd guess.

Originally posted by stanguilles7
What was he arguing with officials about?

And what purpose does the story of his bike ride serve? I dont see how it relates to the main issue at all.

Crazy story, but doing any kind of electrical work requires a certificate, right? And any work you do needs to be signed off by a county or city official to make sure you aren't going to burn someones house down, right? So, AT THE VERY LEAST, he should have been smart enough not to openly advertise an illegal service.

edit on 15-4-2012 by stanguilles7 because: (no reason given)

Prior to the bike ride, I had been arguing with idiots in authority for 20 years. Been looking for men of courage to stand with me, but most people don't have enough confidence and good communication skills which bring justice and common sense and common decency to light. Me thinks that if you would read the whole blog, you would find that I started arguing with idiots in authority when I faced a judge who thought divorce law was written to make it legal for at-fault adulterous mothers to throw away not-at-fault fathers and keep his children and income.--forcing me to watch my sons raised in shack-ups, bars, and government schools.

The bike ride part of the story simply points out the desire to get away from nonsensical hassles. It was a peaceful refreshing ride.

No, doing minor repairs does not require "certificates" in any state that I know of. When any apartment complex hires a maintenance technician, they will utilize the guy's skills to replace bulbs, switches, recepticles, phone jacks, etc, while paying the lowest wage possible, $10-15 per hour. The inspector who wrote the citation did so on the literal, extreme, and selective interpretation of the regulation in order to generate revenue with an intimidating citation sent through the mail.

Maintenance repairs do not require inspections and permits.

None of my services are illegal, and I am quite competent. None of my clients have ever been dissatisfied with my work. They always call me back for repairs. I make friends and desire to keep them, therefore my work is saafe and quaility.

Basically, the state wants revenue. They have issued many other citations to handymen all over the valley. Due to my blog, I have been shocked by all the people who know someone who has been cited.

You and I have a "freedom of speech" right to publish our skills on flyers, resumes, T-shirts, bulletin boards, and employment agencies. Illegally DOING work that requires permits and inspections is nowhere mentioned on my flyer.

The Inspector was too eager to send a revenue generating ticket through the mail. He could have simply investigated, informed himself and me, and presented a warning. If he later caught me DOING work that violated their regs, then he could issue a citation for that--and we would argue that point...

Anyway, it is a good and informative blog. People do need to stand up to government abuse and we all need to be standing up for our state and federal constitutions. They are our foundation of government. We are currently in great danger due to ignoring our constitutions for fifty years.

Originally posted by Forevever
reply to post by lonegurkha

 

really? his freedom of speech? not the fact that he might be a flake and rewire your house wrong?

seriously?

Thats dangerous, and has nothing to do with freedom of speech.

And I'm pretty sure he's a flake if he didn't know he needed a license to be working with ELECTRICITY.

You really need to read his blog and find out exactly what you are talking about before you shoot off your mouth . From what you say, its clear that you haven't read the story of what this guy has gone through. It is kind of long and has some big words in it. The guy documents everything. They misrepresented themselves to entrap him. he never did any work all he did was post a flyer.

Read it and see what you think when you have all the information, instead of the typical kneejerk reaction, so common to the ignorant.

Originally posted by Forevever
reply to post by Tygart

 

so you rather he kill someone before he get fined?

how bout this - we take back the citation and reissue it for false advertising then - would that work?

are you one of the criminals trying to squeeze 1500 dollars out of this guy?
cause you sound just like them
it's obvious you didn't bother reading beyond the citation
it's quite obvious you're a person given to offering their opinions about things they know nothing about
i'll allow mister russ to speak for himself regarding your uninformed opinion, as it's obvious you couldn't be bothered to look at his side of the story

So, here we have a guy who thinks that everyone who posts a flyer on a bulletin board looking for work in a particular field is going to cause someone's home to burn down. So, now he wants to take away everyone's freedom to post flyers looking for work in a particular field, which in this case is the "electrical" field. Note also that this takes away another individual's freedom to hire someone to do work for him without third party interference. He believes EVERYONE IS INCOMPETENT UNLESS THEY ARE LICENSED AND CONTROLED BY THE STATE. In the government employee's mind, the guy looking for work is incompitent AND the employer is incompitent. In anonymous's mind ONLY THE GOVERNMENT IS COMPITENT AND IT NEEDS TO PROTECT EVERY INDIVIDUAL FROM OTHER INDIVIDUALS AND EVEN THEIR OWN SELVES. Restrict freedom and pay fees and fines in order to fund salaries of government inspectors to watch over everyone. ...will this work? Will this promote liberty and justice? Will it stop incompitence, or will it enrich and empower government control freaks?



Check out this anonymous response to the above letter:
My guess is you didn't spend much time reading this and you did not follow the link provided and read material there. You may even work for L&I...This gentleman is dead right, government is totally out of control. These L&I thugs need to leave common, descent people alone. I've worked in maintenance nearly my entire life (automation) and have (many times) been called out by friends to correct problems created by "licensed" idiots. Anyone can get a license, insurance, and bond. Just pay up and your in.



You really don't understand. . .



I had to contact that anonymous guy through Cragslist and thank him for posting. He made some great points. The truth is, every government employee thinks that everyone who is not part of the system is the "bad guy," unless they are part of the "public" whom they think they are protecting. They want to control and stop the "bad guys" from injuring the public. The governement employees think people who place flyers on bulletin boards are "guilty" without trial. So, they violate the public's protections which are expressly guarnteed in our state and federal constitutions. --Stop the individual from hanging flyers on bulletin boards. Stop the individual from hiring the guy he wants to hire. Stop the individual from offering his services to his neighbor until he pays a third party for approval. The government must recieve its cut for every transaction...--



To be a government employee, one has to be blind to the inalienable rights of individuals which are clearly written in our state and federal constitutions. And, THAT IS WHAT WILL BE THE CASE IN MY HEARING. They will ignore individual rights to free speach, free association and agreements between neighbors, freedom to work, and freedom to hire... etc. They will further ignore our rights to a trial by jury before being fined $1500.00. Currently, government employees are stuck in a delusional world where they are the good guys and the protectors and the saviors of the helpless public. --And too many people graduating from government schools fall for that nonsense! We need to teach history in government schools. Our founders fought for freedom and against tyranny. Thomas Jefferson said, "Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God." We especially need to teach government employees about our constitutions.



Here is my respomse to the Craigslist whiner:
To the guy who wrote the "Re: Restraining government revenue seekers" saying that I need to get off my pipe.



Please come to the blog site above and post in the comments section. We can have an open debate there. I will show how silly you are very easily in our debate. We need a society based in trust of family, friends, and neighbors, and based in truth. The truth is, YOU chose to hire the guy who you say caused your house to burn down. You and only you are responsible for your choices. If the guy did not do a safe and quality job for you, and you can prove it, you have a liability lawsuit available to recoup your losses. We don't need government programs to control our lives and protect us from all of OUR OWN CHOICES. Remember, YOU chose to use the unlicensed electrician. You may have burned your own house down due to that choice. Also note: If your electrician FALSELY claimed to be licensed by the state, then you also have fraud charges you can file against him and buttress your civil suit to recoup damages. It appears to me that you may be incompetent, unable to make good decisions and take responsibility for your own decisions and life. So now you want the government to be your savior and save you from yourself! You want government to make all of your own decisions... good grief!

Originally posted by Tygart
reply to post by Forevever

 

Originally posted by Forevever
reply to post by lonegurkha

 

really? his freedom of speech? not the fact that he might be a flake and rewire your house wrong?

seriously?

Thats dangerous, and has nothing to do with freedom of speech.

And I'm pretty sure he's a flake if he didn't know he needed a license to be working with ELECTRICITY.

In fact it is freedom of speech, the guy did not even do any work, he just advertised that he could do the job. Its not like they busted him doing the job, he did not even get the chance to do a job.

edit on 16-4-2012 by Tygart because: (no reason given)

You should take the time to educate yourself about what the laws actually are. Restricting laymen from doing electrical work that might potentially burn down your home, maybe even yr neighbors home, and cost the fire department tons of money in the process is very much something the city or the county has business being involved in.

What you describe as 'freedom of speech' is lawlessnes. Would you want some idiot posing as a medical doctor during your next surgery because you don't believe in 'big government' medical regulations?

dip#.

Originally posted by lonegurkha

Originally posted by Forevever
reply to post by lonegurkha

 

really? his freedom of speech? not the fact that he might be a flake and rewire your house wrong?

seriously?

Thats dangerous, and has nothing to do with freedom of speech.

And I'm pretty sure he's a flake if he didn't know he needed a license to be working with ELECTRICITY.

You really need to read his blog and find out exactly what you are talking about before you shoot off your mouth . From what you say, its clear that you haven't read the story of what this guy has gone through. It is kind of long and has some big words in it. The guy documents everything. They misrepresented themselves to entrap him. he never did any work all he did was post a flyer.

Read it and see what you think when you have all the information, instead of the typical kneejerk reaction, so common to the ignorant.

They didn't 'entrap him'. He is being fined based on his advertisement, which advertised illegal electrical services.

Familiarize yourself with the law instead of whining about it after the fact.