Rapture vs NONE rapture (dialogue to all christians)

reply to post by SimonPeter

Logically speaking ; The book of Revelations offends all Pretribulationist.

Not true at all, I LOVE Revelation, prolly my favorite book out of the Bible.

(It's singular and specific by the way, it's a single "Revelation".. the revelation of Jesus Christ.)

reply to post by SimonPeter

The Lord said he would send fire on those that dwells carelessly in the Isles

Yes, precisely, that's why I think America is basically absent from end-times prophecy.

Originally posted by SisyphusRide
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Metal Rules you should try it sometimes friend... it will purge all demons!

...Salute, with your boot!

you wield a mighty sword, and I'd warn anyone who wishes to go up against the NT... he'll have ya meet the maker!

LOL, I was a big metal fan in my day. Kinda love the praise and worship music now. and I'm gonna wait til tomorrow to tackle this one, I'm going to watch a movie after my quiet time with the Lord.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


excellent my friend

my boots that the Lord adorned me with weren't made for walking

I am still working... on Catholic youth group teachers that is...

nevermind

reply to post by NOTurTypical


You must not be reading from the book of jmDewey . You know that we are throwing our pearls into a whirlwind with him . He is like the gangster the Teflon Don .

Originally posted by SimonPeter
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

You must not be reading from the book of jmDewey . You know that we are throwing our pearls into a whirlwind with him . He is like the gangster the Teflon Don .

Yes, however, the crowd isn't in the octagon with us. Most of them never post...

Originally posted by SisyphusRide
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

excellent my friend

my boots that the Lord adorned me with weren't made for walking

I am still working... on Catholic youth group teachers that is...

nevermind

The keys of David are worship and intercessory prayer. They bring His presence, and in that comes the prophetic. Never forget that, never. The keys are interceding for others and worship in the secret place. Find a closet to get into, He will meet you there. his voice is the calm still voice inside you when you get into "the river". his Word comes as an instantaneous thought that didn't come from the rational analytical thoughts of your own brain, it just comes from the 'heart".

Originally posted by SimonPeter
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

You must not be reading from the book of jmDewey . You know that we are throwing our pearls into a whirlwind with him . He is like the gangster the Teflon Don .

He's got his own "special" way of viewing things. He accused me of trying to destroy the church but he's the one that is working on rewriting the bible and changing the punctuation to what he feels is best which will change the entire meaning of what was written.

In psychology this is called transferrence.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

I can't believe that he or she is so fixated on Pre-tribulation Rapture that he sacrifices everything else in the bible . jmDewey is not unlike a great majority of Fire Insurance Christians I have talked to .
My son is a preacher /pastor of a church who also stayed out of the book of Revelations . It was too dark and hard to understand and all the preachers he heard before preached a secrete pre tribulational rapture . I showed him actual scripture that proved the pre trib rapture was wrong . It finally sunk in and he had to deal with delivering the truth to those that didn't really want to know . Most already knew but some will not ever accept that their life may be required of them for the name of Jesus . There are FEMA camps in America that will be filled with Christians who will not comply with the NWO and take the chip . I have followed one 385 million dollar no bid contract for some of them .And a 1.86 million dollar renovation to convert to camps . I do know they were built .

Originally posted by SimonPeter
reply to post by Akragon

 

I'm sure that you know but if you must , Jesus was blameless . He was the perfect sacrifice that God himself put forth for remission for our sins . Jesus took on our own sins and paid the price that we might have Grace and Mercy. That may seem so easy but look how many find it so hard .
Jesus gave up his life and suffered in the flesh for all and took on the sins of all believers . He covered your sins with the blood of his sacrifice .
The answer to your question is that Jesus the Lord that took on flesh did not sin and God the Father offered him as an acceptable sacrifice for sin .

Yes i know the christian view of the matter... i don't agree with it...

I wonder, have you read the infancy gospels?

I will assume you have not... Take a look at this passage from the infancy Gospel of Thomas

The son of Annas the scholar, standing there with Jesus, took a willow branch and drained the water Jesus had collected. (2)Jesus, however, saw what had happened and became angry, saying to him, "Damn you, you irreverent fool! What harm did the ponds of water do to you? From this moment you, too, will dry up like a tree, and you'll never produce leaves or root or bear fruit."
(3) In an instant the boy had completely withered away. Then Jesus departed and left for the house of Joseph. (4)The parents of the boy who had withered away picked him up and were carrying him out, sad because he was so young. And they came to Joseph and accused him: "It's your fault - your boy did this."

4 Later he was going through the village again when a boy ran and bumped him on the shoulder. Jesus got angry and said to him, "You won't continue your journey." (2)And all of a sudden, he fell down and died.

Can you really say he was sinless?

Or perhaps that book isn't legit in your mind?

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by Akragon

 

Just wondering...

If that was supposed to refer to Jesus, what "iniquity" did he commit?

All of us had wandered off like sheep; each of us had strayed off on his own path, but the Lord caused the sin of all of us to attack him.
Isaiah 53:6
People had gone so far off the right path that they turned on the person who was right because they lost the ability to know right from wrong.

Yet for some reason in the OT you'll find it saying "God wrote his rules in the hearts of man kind"

Perhaps he missed a few people eh...

reply to post by Akragon

Perhaps he missed a few people eh...

Jeremiah 31:33
"This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after that time," declares the LORD. "I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.

It was a promise to do that in the future, written in the Old Testament.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

Romans 11 which talks about the future redemption of the Jews to Christ and them being grafted back in.

More deception, which is the only way to support your philosophy.
Paul uses that as a sort of threat, where if Christians turn bad, the Jews could replace them, just as they had replaced the Jews. Paul never says they ever will be grafted back on.
People descended from the former fleshly Israel will be saved just like anyone else, which is the main theme of the chapter, that everyone is placed on a level playing field, to use an analogy.

reply to post by SimonPeter

Is the Old Testament void because the New Testament has been written ?

Yes, it is void, and so the name "Old".
Do you have some reason to think otherwise?

reply to post by Akragon


I read Mad Magazine once . Sonny boy you can find a lot of stupid trash to read out there most of it anti God .
Go play !

reply to post by SimonPeter


*sigh*

Come on man you can do better then that... thats a pathetic response even for a christian...

Thank you for clearly conferming my assumption by the way

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Romans 11 which talks about the future redemption of the Jews to Christ and them being grafted back in.

More deception, which is the only way to support your philosophy.
Paul uses that as a sort of threat, where if Christians turn bad, the Jews could replace them, just as they had replaced the Jews. Paul never says they ever will be grafted back on.
People descended from the former fleshly Israel will be saved just like anyone else, which is the main theme of the chapter, that everyone is placed on a level playing field, to use an analogy.

"For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in." ~ Romans 11:25

There is the word "Musterion". Paul is warning not to be "ignorant" of this truth revealed for the first time in scripture. He warns if you don't grasp this you'll be "wise in your OWN conceits"... That Israel's blindness is NOT full, it's "in part", and it's not permanent, it will end when the "fullness of the gentiles be come in".

"As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes." Romans 11:28

As concerning the good news of Jesus Christ salvation is offered to the Gentiles because of their unbelief in Him. But as far as the foreordination and election of God as sons according to the promise as Abraham's natural seed the are beloved for the Father (YHVH's) sake. The Jews are the bride of the Father. The church is the bride of the Son.

For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. ~ Romans 11:29

God will never change His mind about his gifts or callings or people or in this case His gift and calling to Jacob (Israel).

"For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: ~ Romans 11:30

"Ye" = Gentile Christians.

"Their" = The Jews, "Israel" from verse 25.

"Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy." ~ Romans 11:31

"These & they" = Jews, "Israel" from verse 30 & 25.

"Your" = Gentile Christians.

"For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all." ~ Romans 11:32

"Them all" = Israel, from verse 25.

"Upon all" = Israel, all of Israel will be saved:

"And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:" ~ Romans 11:26

"ALL ISRAEL", the covenant with Abraham, and especially to Jacob.

So in recap, DO NOT be ignorant of the "musterion" revealed for the first time here in Romans Dewey, DO NOT be wise in your "own conceits"...

"For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in."

Their blindness isn't total (Messianic Jews), and it's NOT permanent. Jesus said their blindness wouldn't be permanent:

"37O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord." Matthew 23:37-39

Jesus says their blindness isn't permanent, "TILL" they (Israel) call upon Him and bless His Name. This is prophesied in the OT, in Hosea 5:15:

"I will go and return to my place, till they acknowledge their offence, and seek my face: in their affliction they will seek me earnestly."

God cannot go and "return to My place" unless He left His place. (Jesus) "In their affliction" is a reference to the tribulation, or Daniel's 70th week, of "the time of JACOB'S trouble". Another proof that the tribulation or "Daniel's 70th week" has not happened yet, the nation of Israel hasn't embraced their Messiah Jesus yet.


Dewey, DO NOT be ignorant of that Musterion, DO NOT be wise in your own conceits. It's time to repent.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by SimonPeter

 

Is the Old Testament void because the New Testament has been written ?

Yes, it is void, and so the name "Old".
Do you have some reason to think otherwise?

Which "scriptures" were the apostles referring to then? The NT wasn't yet written. There are 313 OT prophecies concerning the first coming of the Messiah, all were fulfilled literally. There are 2,400 concerning the Messiah's next coming, those are all allegorical apparently and will NOT be fulfilled literally?

Originally posted by SimonPeter
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

I can't believe that he or she is so fixated on Pre-tribulation Rapture that he sacrifices everything else in the bible . jmDewey is not unlike a great majority of Fire Insurance Christians I have talked to .
My son is a preacher /pastor of a church who also stayed out of the book of Revelations . It was too dark and hard to understand and all the preachers he heard before preached a secrete pre tribulational rapture . I showed him actual scripture that proved the pre trib rapture was wrong . It finally sunk in and he had to deal with delivering the truth to those that didn't really want to know . Most already knew but some will not ever accept that their life may be required of them for the name of Jesus . There are FEMA camps in America that will be filled with Christians who will not comply with the NWO and take the chip . I have followed one 385 million dollar no bid contract for some of them .And a 1.86 million dollar renovation to convert to camps . I do know they were built .

They stay out of Revelation because they don't have the gift for prophecy so they do not understand the language. I however do, and i have taken to reading all of the prophets books and i can tell you, there's quite a bit that is still yet to happen from the old prophets that deals with end times events. Fascinating stuff really. Yeshua said "Do not fear", i like to trust him on his word.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


Not only that, 9 out of 10 denominational churches are amillennialist in their Eschatology, that's a carryover from the RCC. It also highlights their lack of depth and understanding in the OT. There are 400 some verses in Revelation, and they refer back to 800 some places in the OT books. The book is entirely in code, yet all those codes are addressed in the OT.