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Rapture vs NONE rapture (dialogue to all christians)

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posted on Apr, 29 2012 @ 02:08 AM
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Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


That doesn't answer the question...

If HE commits iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men and with the blows of the sons of men.

What was his iniquity?



"IF" you beat your wife I will call the authorities on you Akragon. So when did you beat your wife? Date and time please.

The "iniquity" on Him was the iniquity of us all that the Father placed on Him. (Isaiah 53:6)




posted on Apr, 29 2012 @ 02:18 AM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


That doesn't answer the question...

If HE commits iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men and with the blows of the sons of men.

What was his iniquity?




"IF" you beat your wife I will call the authorities on you Akragon. So when did you beat your wife? Date and time please.

The "iniquity" on Him was the iniquity of us all that the Father placed on Him. (Isaiah 53:6)


Illogical arguement...

It says If HE commits iniquity... etc etc... well he got the blows from the sons of men so there must have been something HE did...




posted on Apr, 29 2012 @ 02:25 AM
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reply to post by Akragon
 


IF you kill someone I will call the cops on you and have you arrested.

So when did you kill someone?


The Bible tells us what iniquity was on Jesus. ALL of ours.


Do you notice the "IF" in that passage? The actual rendering in Hebrew reads like:

"IF iniquity is found upon Him..."



posted on Apr, 29 2012 @ 02:32 AM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


lol how could i not notice... perhaps you didn't notice but the IF is the thing in question here...

Sounds like a whole lot of assuming to me...


I don't work that way man...

He clearly got what this piece of scripture entails, IF he got said punishment then he did something to earn said punishment... What did he do?

And you still haven't explained how you think his "death" resolves the sins of all man kind... but thats a different topic i suppose...


edit on 29-4-2012 by Akragon because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 29 2012 @ 03:13 AM
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reply to post by Akragon
 


Dude, this is Christianity, not Islam. We won't drag you in the streets and stone you to death. If you want to believe Jesus was a liar when He asked if anyone could lay a charge of sin to Him that's fine, you can do that. If you want to believe He was a sinner you can do that. Fell free to do so, you can do that. The Scribes and Pharisees said the exact same thing, multitudes of folks throughout history have said the same thing. You're free to believe what you will. There's absolutely no compulsion in Christianity.

But Isaiah 53:6 is clear exactly what iniquity was upon Jesus.


edit on 29-4-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 29 2012 @ 03:18 AM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


see thats not the issue at all...

you offered this piece of scripture (2 Samuel 7:12-16) Saying it refered to him...

If he did refer to him, what was his iniquity?

Funny thing is i can answer this question... aside from the passage from samuel...

but anyways...




posted on Apr, 29 2012 @ 03:27 AM
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reply to post by Akragon
 


2 Samuel 7 is the Davidic Covenant, see verse 16 and 17. (Which Dewey said there was no precedent for)


If he did refer to him, what was his iniquity?


You brought that objection up, my point was addressing to Dewey the Davidic Covenant that Gabriel referenced to Mary.

The iniquity upon Christ was the iniquity of us all. (Isaiah 53:6)



edit on 29-4-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 29 2012 @ 10:50 AM
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reply to post by Akragon
 


You aren't ignorant of the word of God , your just acting like it . Funny you just show up all the sudden .



posted on Apr, 29 2012 @ 11:10 AM
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reply to post by SimonPeter
 


there will be no rapture until the day that you are dust! you are evil, you are man... by the sweat of thy brow thou shalt eat bread all thy days...

you wanna know the truth son? I'll tell ya the truth (-Iron Maiden - Can I play With Madness)

your soul is going to burn in the lake of fire!

(Genesis 3:19) *In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

and there we have it... none are Holy Man and the females have to deal with our crap because of it.


there are some great lyrics on this album, even if Heavy Metal is not ones thing... all the songs are still a good read.



Signed...


go ye now and LIVE! ...be fruitful and multiply.


edit on 29-4-2012 by SisyphusRide because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 29 2012 @ 01:24 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 

Not elaborated or defined? It's the Davidic Covenant. Do you ever read the OT??

Which obviously was not literally fulfilled.
It would be spiritually if it was understood as God ruling, then Jesus taking it up in a god sort of way.

He said to them, “How then does David by the Spirit call him ‘Lord,’ saying,
‘The Lord said to my lord,
“Sit at my right hand,
until I put your enemies under your feet”’?
If David then calls him ‘Lord,’ how can he be his son?”



posted on Apr, 29 2012 @ 01:30 PM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 



Which obviously was not literally fulfilled.


I know this, that's what the millennial reign is. The fulfillment of the Davidic Covenant. And Jesus isn't sitting on the throne of David right now, He's sitting on His Father's throne in heaven. When His disciples asked Him if He was going to overthrow the Romans and assume His kingdom on earth at that time He basically said "it's not for you to know when the Father's timing will be."

One of the reasons the Jews rejected Him as their Messiah is they thought He would destroy the government's of man and assume the Kingdom. They didn't realize Ben David and Ben Joseph were the same Messiah coming once to suffer and once to reign.



posted on Apr, 29 2012 @ 01:31 PM
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Originally posted by SimonPeter
reply to post by Akragon
 


You aren't ignorant of the word of God , your just acting like it . Funny you just show up all the sudden .


haha! This is an open forum... i can "show up" where ever i please...

And i didn't just show up, i keep up with all the religious threads...

i just had a question.... which apparently had no answer...

Carry on...




posted on Apr, 29 2012 @ 02:33 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 

It appears you're ignorant to the mystery of their election and redemption. (Verse 25)

There is not now a mystery, ever since Paul explained it.
The idea that there is still a mystery seems weird, to me, if that is what you are implying.
The ethnic Israel were unresponsive to the Gospel in order to have the rest of the ethnic groups enter in.
This puts everyone on an equal footing.
Ethnic Israel had the first chance at it for the sake of the forefathers of that ethnic group. That is the essence of this election concept being conveyed by Paul in chapters 9 and 11 of Romans.



posted on Apr, 29 2012 @ 02:41 PM
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reply to post by Akragon
 

Just wondering...

If that was supposed to refer to Jesus, what "iniquity" did he commit?

All of us had wandered off like sheep; each of us had strayed off on his own path, but the Lord caused the sin of all of us to attack him.
Isaiah 53:6
People had gone so far off the right path that they turned on the person who was right because they lost the ability to know right from wrong.



posted on Apr, 29 2012 @ 03:03 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 

I know this, that's what the millennial reign is. The fulfillment of the Davidic Covenant.
The millennium is something only in Revelation which is full of symbolism, this being one of these symbolic pictures, of a thousand year reign, which comes from imperial Rome where the Caesars would imagine themselves setting up this relatively permanent dynasty of good fortune where everyone in this kingdom would be thankful for its coming about.
Jesus as king right now, ruling from heaven, is the reality behind the rather enigmatic symbolism in this book of signs and portents.

And Jesus isn't sitting on the throne of David right now, He's sitting on His Father's throne in heaven.
Jesus is sitting on the throne. You are at the same level of understanding as the Pharisees who could not answer the question of Jesus I quoted above. You don't get that the throne of David was the Lord's to give, and to take, as the Christ.


edit on 29-4-2012 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 29 2012 @ 03:08 PM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 



The millennium is something only in Revelation


The Day of the Lord is all over the OT prophets, open the first half of the Bible sometime. Especially Ezekiel who wrote extensively on it, Joel and Isaiah are another good place.



posted on Apr, 29 2012 @ 03:12 PM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 

It appears you're ignorant to the mystery of their election and redemption. (Verse 25)

There is not now a mystery, ever since Paul explained it.
The idea that there is still a mystery seems weird, to me, if that is what you are implying.
The ethnic Israel were unresponsive to the Gospel in order to have the rest of the ethnic groups enter in.
This puts everyone on an equal footing.
Ethnic Israel had the first chance at it for the sake of the forefathers of that ethnic group. That is the essence of this election concept being conveyed by Paul in chapters 9 and 11 of Romans.


"Musterion" in the Greek isn't the same type of definition we have for a "mystery" in the English. In the English it means something that's very enigmatic that's hard to understand but can be understood with careful study. "Musterion" in the Greek means something that has previously been hidden is now being revealed for the first time. Example would be a password to a computer, or a combination to a lock.

Whenever Paul says he is "revealing a mystery" (Musterion), he's saying "I'm revealing something to you for the first time in recorded history. A revelation from God never revealed before."

There are 7 mysteries revealed by Paul to the body of Christ. All of them would have been hidden from the OT prophets.


edit on 29-4-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 29 2012 @ 03:30 PM
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reply to post by Akragon
 


I'm sure that you know but if you must , Jesus was blameless . He was the perfect sacrifice that God himself put forth for remission for our sins . Jesus took on our own sins and paid the price that we might have Grace and Mercy. That may seem so easy but look how many find it so hard .
Jesus gave up his life and suffered in the flesh for all and took on the sins of all believers . He covered your sins with the blood of his sacrifice .
The answer to your question is that Jesus the Lord that took on flesh did not sin and God the Father offered him as an acceptable sacrifice for sin .



posted on Apr, 29 2012 @ 03:32 PM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


Are you affiliated with godlikeproductions ?



posted on Apr, 29 2012 @ 03:46 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 

The Day of the Lord is all over the OT prophets, open the first half of the Bible sometime. Especially Ezekiel who wrote extensively on it, Joel and Isaiah are another good place.
So?
What does that have to do with the millennium, or David's throne, or Jesus?



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