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Rapture vs NONE rapture (dialogue to all christians)

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posted on Apr, 26 2012 @ 02:05 PM
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Originally posted by SimonPeter
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


I think that those that examine the scripture with a magnifying glass have zoomed in so close that they lose sight of the word FAITH . Jesus didn't say by what I am doing and what the scribes have written you are healed . He said by your faith you are healed . That statement does not diminish my Lord but makes me wonder how many didn't have the faith to be healed that came forth . Another thing that hits me hard is that Jesus being literally buffeted by those wanting to touch this great teacher felt the power of healing being pulled through the hem of his garment when the woman with the issue of blood reached out and touched him .


Amen bro.

Faith in him.

Trust in him.




posted on Apr, 26 2012 @ 02:12 PM
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reply to post by pthena
 





What is a Jew? Isn't that someone who identifies themselves as Jew? If a Jew claims the privilege of the promise to Abraham as if it is exclusively to the Jew and not to all Abraham, then should the Christian confirm and reinforce that delusion? I would say no. Ignore the claim that the Jew makes that he exclusively is Israel, that he exclusively is Abraham. Give it no weight.


Right here is what theyre doing today. They have turned being a jew from a religion into being a "race" and the rest of Israel gets pissed on. They negelect to tell you the fact that Samaritans are Israelites as well. Back to just before the Assyrian exile Solomon was punished for building Idols to his pagan wives despite God warning him about his wives Solomon ignored him so Solomon was punished but because of David, God put the punishment on his heir to the throne which caused the 10 tribes to split from Judah and Benjamin. The other tribes went north and made their own capitol in Samaria and then the Assyrian exile came.
edit on 26-4-2012 by lonewolf19792000 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 26 2012 @ 02:16 PM
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reply to post by Jordan River
 


Pre wrath is the answer...

given a chance this will solve the rapture debate all together.



posted on Apr, 26 2012 @ 03:55 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 

Human government. The rock that smashes the statue made of metal that grows into a mountain that takes up the entire Earth.

Christianity will NEVER end. It's the Kingdom of God.
So, then the earth itself does not end, do I have that right?
Seems to me that this puts your theory out on a limb.
This makes the scene in Revelation 21 merely figurative, of a new Heaven and a new Earth, thus removing the ability to appeal to the claim that you are taking a literal interpretation of what you consider to be prophecies.

Paul describes the end in
1 Corinthians 15,
Then comes the end, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father, when he has brought to an end all rule and all authority and power. For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. The last enemy to be eliminated is death.

The end comes when everything is defeated, the last thing being, death. The original point Paul was making in this passage was about the resurrection of the dead who are in Christ. Once death is placed under submission to Jesus, then the dead would come back to life, in a bodily resurrection.
It seems that the belief system that you have adopted has some other sort of "end" where nothing has been placed under submission, and then there is a sort of rapture, leaving a lot of loose ends to be resolved later. This looks like a fabricated-from-the-imagination type end, one that has nothing to do with what is described in the Bible, but is something described by the founder of your cult.

edit on 26-4-2012 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 26 2012 @ 04:47 PM
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Originally posted by DISRAELI
reply to post by HeFrippedMeOff
 

As far as I can tell, you are still equating "watching" with "expecting the return of Christ to come in "Rapture" form.
There is no justification for that.
I am not expecting the return of Christ to come in "Rapture" form.
But I am still "watching" in the sense intended by scripture.
I am not going to "miss out", and nor will anybody else who takes this position.
So there is no need to be so earnest about persuading us.



I find there to be ample evidence that there is a such thing as an invitation to the wedding feast. I also find there to be ample evidence that only those wise virgins with enough oil unto watching will be receiving invitations. This wedding feast is not the culmination of salvation but is a special gift for those who are watching and waiting and believe for a coming that precedes the first day of the millennial reign.

If you don't have the measure of faith it takes to believe such a thing then so be it; but if you can earnestly deny and persuade people of no hope for anything but a fiery judgment unto salvation then I shall earnestly spread seeds of hope unto faith and watching for the invitation to the bridegroom feast, as intended by the scripture


Like I say, if it doesn't happen then I'm no worse off and neither are those who hope for his coming in such a fashion because one day he will return. But if it is true, and invitations are handed out,someone is going to miss out on possibly the biggest blessing mankind will ever know simply because one has set the date for and only at the millennial reign.



posted on Apr, 26 2012 @ 05:08 PM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by HeFrippedMeOff
 

There's only one time of the end.

End of what?
What . . exactly is it that ends?
End of Christianity?


I made it clear but you didn't have ears to hear. Read your Bible and stop listening to your cult leader who wants you to create division with everyone about everything. I know it scary not to be accepted by the masses who teach the doctrines of men as truth but it's worth it to find who you are in Christ.



posted on Apr, 26 2012 @ 05:35 PM
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Originally posted by HeFrippedMeOff
I find there to be ample evidence that there is a such thing as an invitation to the wedding feast. I also find there to be ample evidence that only those wise virgins with enough oil unto watching will be receiving invitations. This wedding feast is not the culmination of salvation but is a special gift for those who are watching and waiting and believe for a coming that precedes the first day of the millennial reign.

There is nothing wrong with the first half of this paragraph. Of course there is clear evidence for the "wedding feast on offer to the wise virgins", and I've never disputed that. Therefore your case gains nothing at all by repeating the point.
What you haven't got evidence for is detaching this from the "culmination of salvation", which is where traditional interpretation has always placed it.
I've already pointed out that your theory on this parable is based on a complete misunderstanding of Matthew ch25 v13, which you took to be a speech of the bridegroom to the foolish virgins, when it is really nothing of the kind.
You haven't been able to contest this point, but you're still putting out the doctrine which was based on the misunderstanding.
The ground underneath you has vanished, and you're trying to stand on thin air.


But if it is true, and invitations are handed out,someone is going to miss out on possibly the biggest blessing mankind will ever know simply because one has set the date for and only at the millennial reign.

Surely not.
Even if this Rapture does happen, it will only be the second biggest blessing.
The final culmination of salvation will be a greater one.
And also, even if the Rapture does happen, I repeat that there is no reason whatever why it should be restricted to those who are expecting it.
I am not expecting a Rapture.
Nevetheless, if I am wrong, and there is a Rapture, I would still expect to be raptured along with everybody else.
Simply because it would surely be based on faith in Christ, rather than faith in the Rapture as such.
In other words, not believing in the Rapture ought to be a win/win situation.


edit on 26-4-2012 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 26 2012 @ 10:40 PM
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reply to post by HeFrippedMeOff
 

Read your Bible and stop listening to your cult . . .

Which is why you have no argument, because I read the Bible, and you listen to your cult that just makes things up.



posted on Apr, 26 2012 @ 10:46 PM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by HeFrippedMeOff
 

Read your Bible and stop listening to your cult . . .

Which is why you have no argument, because I read the Bible, and you listen to your cult that just makes things up.


Our cult leader can whop your cult leader, He raised the dead and walked on water.



posted on Apr, 26 2012 @ 11:46 PM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


Again the question ; Is Matthew 24 verse 29 thru 31 a valid chapter in the bible . Are the words of Jesus confirming 2nd Thess . Chapter 2 and does Jesus come in the clouds after the tribulation of those days and the sun and moon are darkened and stars fall on the earth . And does this mean to you that we are to be taken out somewhere within the Tribulation rather than before .
Can you answer this for me ?



posted on Apr, 27 2012 @ 02:03 AM
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reply to post by SimonPeter
 
I don't see 2 Thess. as being valid.
How would I be concerned with another book validating it?
What is the title of this thread?
Rapture vs None.
I would say, 'None'.
I see no reason to connect a tribulation with a rapture or anything like it.
I see the being caught up in 1 Thess. as being a "Last Day" event, as a way to eliminate any further concern about what a last day may or not mean.



posted on Apr, 27 2012 @ 02:07 AM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 

Our cult leader can whop your cult leader, He raised the dead and walked on water.

Funny how it took until the eighteen hundreds and John Nelson Darby before anyone understood what he meant.



posted on Apr, 27 2012 @ 05:59 AM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


I never heard of Darby until you mentioned him. My theology is simply from a literal reading of the text of the Bible. Like Paul saying the Jews and Israel will come to Christ in redemption in Romans 11. The OT prophets. And Jesus saying their blindness won't be forever. Hosea 5:15 God says He'll return to heaven and will come again to them when they call upon His Name.



posted on Apr, 27 2012 @ 11:08 AM
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//reply to post by jmdewey60
 


So let me see ? Matthew 24 is also invalid . The actual words of Jesus Christ are not acceptable to you . The red letters are supposed to be reported as the words of Jesus and do support the message of the matter in 2nd Thessalonians chapter 2 .
I must ask. Is your faith in the RAPTURE that serves the flesh or is your faith in Jesus who saves the soul . Jesus did not come to save your corruptible flesh .You will not leave this world alive.
I hate to tell you but we are probably starting into the tribulation now . I would have to equate you to one of the 5 foolish virgins at this point by definition also given by Jesus in the book of 7 Matthew .
They have the ; My way or the highway attitude , Or upon my terms attitude .



posted on Apr, 27 2012 @ 12:16 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 

I never heard of Darby until you mentioned him.

So? You've been deceived.
The proponents of Dispensationalism keep him on the down-low because people understand now that he was basically an occultist.
I can not believe that you came upon dispensationalism on your own, seeing that it took a concerted effort by Darby to come up with it and he had a predetermined agenda to come up with something like that.
You only believe that belief has always been around because of the things like that Chuck Missler claims, who is someone not in the least afraid to boldly lie when it suites him.
I have been reading essays and books by actual Dispensationalists and none of them claim it existed before Darby.



posted on Apr, 27 2012 @ 12:35 PM
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reply to post by Jordan River
 


The Roman Catholic "Church" is Not Christian but rather an apostate religion that contradicts the Bible repeatedly. And personally as a Christian I do not believe in the rapture, I believe we will have to through the tribulation like everyone else. That doesn't mean however I am not open to the possibility of a pre-tribulation rapture, I just don't think it's going to go down that way.

EDIT: I used to believe in the rapture until I found out about the agenda behind Christian Zionism.
edit on 27-4-2012 by RevelationGeneration because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 27 2012 @ 01:11 PM
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reply to post by SimonPeter
 

Matthew 24 is also invalid

I didn't say anything about Matthew 24.
It's not relevant to your so-called Rapture.



posted on Apr, 27 2012 @ 06:33 PM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 

I never heard of Darby until you mentioned him.

So? You've been deceived.
The proponents of Dispensationalism keep him on the down-low because people understand now that he was basically an occultist.
I can not believe that you came upon dispensationalism on your own, seeing that it took a concerted effort by Darby to come up with it and he had a predetermined agenda to come up with something like that.
You only believe that belief has always been around because of the things like that Chuck Missler claims, who is someone not in the least afraid to boldly lie when it suites him.
I have been reading essays and books by actual Dispensationalists and none of them claim it existed before Darby.




My theology is simply from a literal reading of the text of the Bible. Like Paul saying the Jews and Israel will come to Christ in redemption in Romans 11. The OT prophets. And Jesus saying their blindness won't be forever. Hosea 5:15 God says He'll return to heaven and will come again to them when they call upon His Name.



posted on Apr, 27 2012 @ 06:47 PM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


Are we reading the same bible ? The same Jesus and everything ? Jesus gave a sequential order to the events before and during what you call the Rapture . Your denominational views are not those of the Bible that I read . In fact your interpretations don't seem to line up with the Adventist .



posted on Apr, 27 2012 @ 08:09 PM
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reply to post by SimonPeter
 

My own opinions are my own, but if you understood the Adventist view the way I do, you could better understand the logical progression that I could take from that, to arrive at where I am now. They see a variety of interpretations that are being played out on different levels, and I just eliminate the ones I don't like.



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