Did Iceland plant the seeds of a Jubilee? Very interesting remarks from the IMF., page 1

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Topic started on 15-4-2012 @ 08:55 PM by soulshn

The International Monetary Fund (IMF) has urged governments to consider “bold” interventions to reduce household debt levels and stimulate growth.

Remarks from the IMF in an article in The Telegraph:

IMF urges authorities to consider debt forgiveness to restore growth

Very interesting timing, no?

Much Love!

reply posted on 15-4-2012 @ 09:02 PM by SonOfTheLawOfOne

Originally posted by soulshn

The International Monetary Fund (IMF) has urged governments to consider “bold” interventions to reduce household debt levels and stimulate growth.

Remarks from the IMF in an article in The Telegraph:

IMF urges authorities to consider debt forgiveness to restore growth

Very interesting timing, no?

Much Love!

This is a big deal... coming from the IMF, this could be the beginning of a huge change.

It's exactly the kind of changes we need right now. If people were able to get out from under their debt and reset the books, it would change the game. Instant cash flow from not having to pay debt, which means money goes right back into economies.

Interesting... S&F OP.

~Namaste

reply posted on 15-4-2012 @ 09:09 PM by brill

From the article

However, loading all the burden on the banks and tearing up the law so households could walk away from their debts, as attempted in Colombia in 1997, would only trigger another credit crunch, it added.

I like the end result of Iceland as much as anyone else. What I don't like is a message that if you are irresponsible with money, can't manage debt, or live beyond your means that those troubles could be brushed under the carpet. What does that say for people who are financially responsible ? What's to prevent those same people from the wash, rinse, repeat routine and go back knowing there's a way out? I also realize that crushing global unemployment makes it difficult for families who perhaps were once in a position to manage themselves accordingly, are now in trouble.

Please spare me the banks are scum story, I agree on that front too.

brill

edit on 15-4-2012 by brill because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 15-4-2012 @ 09:13 PM by soulshn

reply to post by brill

I've lived within my means, payed my mortgage on time every month on a house that is now worth less than i owe on it. i think, along with Iceland's move, this is really a way to strike back at the central bankers who have been robbing the middle class blind for the last 100 years.

Notice that in the Iceland case, along with the debt forgiveness, the bankers are finally being called to task. Very exciting.

Cheers!

reply posted on 15-4-2012 @ 09:14 PM by LightSpeedDriver

reply to post by brill

I think you miss the point of that debt though. It wasn't something the Icelandic people had brought on themselves, it was a few greedy banks making questionable transactions, gambles and constructions. If not outright illegal it was probably at least immoral. One should not be able to bet against oneself or one's own "customers". Unfortunately it turns out to be a very profitable business for the bankers and there is little oversight in that world as long as they are making good profits.

reply posted on 15-4-2012 @ 09:16 PM by brill

Originally posted by soulshn
reply to post by brill

I've lived within my means, payed my mortgage on time every month on a house that is now worth less than i owe on it. i think, along with Iceland's move, this is really a way to strike back at the central bankers who have been robbing the middle class blind for the last 100 years.

Notice that in the Iceland case, along with the debt forgiveness, the bankers are finally being called to task. Very exciting.

Cheers!

In the grand scheme though Iceland is a small player globally. Compared to economic behemoths like the US or UK I think this is very very different. I feel for ya but I am, fortunately, in the opposite direction. I just believe in the interests of fairness this type of proposal could send the wrong message. I think we both agree that banks are scum though.

brill

reply posted on 15-4-2012 @ 09:20 PM by brill

Originally posted by LightSpeedDriver
reply to post by brill

I think you miss the point of that debt though. It wasn't something the Icelandic people had brought on themselves, it was a few greedy banks making questionable transactions, gambles and constructions. If not outright illegal it was probably at least immoral. One should not be able to bet against oneself or one's own "customers". Unfortunately it turns out to be a very profitable business for the bankers and there is little oversight in that world as long as they are making good profits.

But you won't dispute that consumer debt, notably credit, is sky rocketing. For some it is a means by which to survive, I get that. For others though its seen as an endless roll of money. I'm not in disagreement here, in principle I like the proposal, I just don't welcome that it could and can be taken advantage of by some. I completely agree that banks should be held accountable for their sleazy tactics.

brill

reply posted on 15-4-2012 @ 10:08 PM by LightSpeedDriver

reply to post by brill

True enough, consumer debt didn't help but banks didn't help either when they offered mortgages to people they knew wouldn't be able to keep up with payments after a few years and then "bet against" those mortgages themselves, making even more money. I think it's called a hedge fund but am not 100% sure of the name. Banks have been nothing but a burden for the people and for business too. Extortionate charges and interest rates don't help either.

reply posted on 16-4-2012 @ 06:40 AM by pheonix358

Be very aware!

Iceland stuck it to the banks and deservedly so.

The IMF wants your Government to fork out trillions - to safeguard the big money.

These two approaches are diametrically opposed.

IMF loves Big Banks!

This announcement is a knee jerk reaction to Iceland's victory.

P

reply posted on 16-4-2012 @ 07:33 AM by Overstuffed

In light of the widely considered view, if not fact, that the currencies in use are 'fiat' of no more inherent value than the sort you find in a Monopoly game, exactly what is the downside of zeroing out the debt balance sheets involving said currencies by governmental 'fiat'?

reply posted on 16-4-2012 @ 07:47 AM by pheonix358

reply to post by Overstuffed

Because the governments get that money from the people that got stiffed by the bank. Then they don't spend it areas like education.

To put it another way. First the banks bend you over and then the Government bends you over for the same money.

P

reply posted on 16-4-2012 @ 09:22 AM by soulshn

reply to post by pheonix358

i would like to think the winds of change are blowing and the People are finally getting wise to the con and realizing that the true power in this arrangement lies with, and has always lied with them.

i think we are seeing the very beginnings of it in stories like this and the Iceland One. How lucky we are to have front row seats.

edit on 4/16/12 by soulshn because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 16-4-2012 @ 09:31 AM by SavedOne

reply to post by soulshn

IMF urges authorities to consider debt forgiveness to restore growth

Of course forgiveness of debt would restore growth, because then everyone could go right back to buying stuff they can't afford again! It would be like taking someone with their credit cards maxed out and zeroing them out, then they could charge them up to the limit again thus pouring tons of "buying power" back into the system! What a positively brilliant plan!!

Seriously, these people are talking out of their back ends. Debt forgiveness has the same economic impact as bankruptcy. If you forgive someone's debt then everyone sees them as damaged goods and does not want to loan money to them again EVER because they're afraid that at some point in the future the cycle will repeat, the debts will be forgiven and those who loaned them money will lose their investment. It's fascinating to me that anyone could possibly think that debt forgiveness would actually lead to growth!

reply posted on 16-4-2012 @ 11:31 AM by docgreen15

You do realise that if the SHTF and the ecconomy crashed well when they wipe out all debt they also wipe out everyone's savings as well! The reset button doesn't just apply to those who lived beyound there means, it means your bank account goes to zero.

reply posted on 16-4-2012 @ 03:39 PM by JanAmosComenius

Originally posted by SavedOne
reply to post by soulshn

IMF urges authorities to consider debt forgiveness to restore growth

Of course forgiveness of debt would restore growth, because then everyone could go right back to buying stuff they can't afford again! It would be like taking someone with their credit cards maxed out and zeroing them out, then they could charge them up to the limit again thus pouring tons of "buying power" back into the system! What a positively brilliant plan!! Seriously, these people are talking out of their back ends. Debt forgiveness has the same economic impact as bankruptcy. If you forgive someone's debt then everyone sees them as damaged goods and does not want to loan money to them again EVER because they're afraid that at some point in the future the cycle will repeat, the debts will be forgiven and those who loaned them money will lose their investment. It's fascinating to me that anyone could possibly think that debt forgiveness would actually lead to growth!

But creating more debt will kick start economy! Monetary system based on DEBT IS THE PROBLEM. Fiscal responsibility is not cure if the monetary system is Ponzi scheme scam. Only solution is: Bomb that island ... it is in middle of nowhere, population less than 1/3 of rag heads we terminated in Iraq during last 20 years. Nobody will rant about such minor collateral damage.

reply posted on 16-4-2012 @ 07:18 PM by soulshn

reply to post by docgreen15

I don't think so, this would not be a SHTF type scenario; a jubilee is a canceling of debts, not a total financial reset.

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