The belief that Fallen Angels mated with human women

Originally posted by JaneC
First let us understand the etymology of the words used;

Nephilim= Hebrew verb taken from the route "nephil" which means "to fall", the "im" at the end makes the verb plural thus HaNephilim=The Fallen.

Giants... This word does not mean "big" but literally means "earth-born"... So why would they make this distinction of being earth-born if they were not the offspring of those that were not earth-born?

Then there is other extra biblical accounts of these beings being very destructive and even doing genetic experiments "sinning against the beasts of the field and birds of the air" which is mentioned in the book of Enoch and the book of Jasher, both of which are mentioned and quoted in the bible.....

Thank you for an excellent clarification. I take from this that Nephilim were fallen angels, procreating with humans, producing giants, who then sinned against the beasts of the field and birds of air...to which the offspring was....

reply to post by JaneC
those books aren't in the KJV...

I will download them form somewhere... everyone has conflicts here in the belief system itself.

but if YWHW is Jesus I'm down with that

Originally posted by JaneC
First let us understand the etymology of the words used;

Nephilim= Hebrew verb taken from the route "nephil" which means "to fall", the "im" at the end makes the verb plural thus HaNephilim=The Fallen.

Giants... This word does not mean "big" but literally means "earth-born"... So why would they make this distinction of being earth-born if they were not the offspring of those that were not earth-born?

Then there is other extra biblical accounts of these beings being very destructive and even doing genetic experiments "sinning against the beasts of the field and birds of the air" which is mentioned in the book of Enoch and the book of Jasher, both of which are mentioned and quoted in the bible.....

Do you think "the fallen" could possibly have meant the ones that alit? They may have been ascribing an adverb that attributed to the style in which it was perceived that they arrived. From the heavens they fell to earth, they are the fallen.

reply to post by ValentineWiggin
I hear ya... it all fits together actually.

another great mystery is we are the only species to develop the spoken word and evolve it... we also pen our words.

birds chirp and all but it is not so complex a communication system, but the life of a bird is but a simple life.

our complex communication has let us break the earths bounds/gravity.

additionally this is why I do not believe Jesus was an alien... the book says "made in his image"

therefore is God was to reveal then it wouldn't be a foreign entity to us possibly at all.

space alien or not... imo.

reply to post by ValentineWiggin


Dinosaurs???

From the book of Jasher:

“And the sons of men in those days took from the cattle of the earth, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the air, and taught the mixture of animals of one species with the other, in order therewith to provoke the Lord; and God saw the whole earth and it was corrupt, for all flesh had corrupted its ways upon earth, all men and all animals.” (Jasher 4:18)

reply to post by JaneC
is this all in the Torah?

I thought the torah was just the old testament... excluding the new testament.

reply to post by Hydroman

Though they are genderless, and without male reproductive organs, they somehow lusted after human women, and desired to mate with them. How is this possible? IMO, it would be like human men all lusting and desiring to mate with chimpanzees. Next, is it possible that these fallen angels had male reproductive organs? Were there also female angels with reproductive organs? If so, could they mate with each other and produce angelic offspring? If not, why did they have reproductive organs?

In the order long ago, Father allowed "angels" (man's term to them), to come in the physical in the flesh to do various tasks. They would look just like a human and can do things humans can do. There was more trust in the beginning, than there is now. (Angels are not robots, and are not perfect either) Since some had taken to experience sex, Father does not allow "angels" to come into the physical like this. Only a limited basis, and your rank must be high for you to do this. Mostly elders and archs are allowed to do this.

As the order stands now, even guardian angels are to look away when there charge (human that they are protecting), are engaging in sexual activity.

Originally posted by JaneC
reply to post by ValentineWiggin

 

Dinosaurs???

From the book of Jasher:

“And the sons of men in those days took from the cattle of the earth, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the air, and taught the mixture of animals of one species with the other, in order therewith to provoke the Lord; and God saw the whole earth and it was corrupt, for all flesh had corrupted its ways upon earth, all men and all animals.” (Jasher 4:18)

Nice addition there

Dinosaurs didn't spring suddenly into existence two hundred million years ago, huge, toothy, and hungry for grub. Like all living things, they evolved, slowly and gradually, from previously existing creatures--in this case, a family of primitive reptiles known as the archosaurs ("ruling lizards").

Little tidbit there.
Source

Originally posted by ValentineWiggin
Here is an excerpt from the Book of Enoch, for whatever that's worth, that's leading in the direction I'm trying to explain but still looking for more specific examples.

"And when men could no longer sustain them, the giants turned against them and devoured mankind. 5 And they began to sin against birds, and beasts, and reptiles, and fish, and to devour one another’s flesh, and drink the blood." Enoch 7:5-6

His theory was based on this, that the fallen angels procreated with the aforementioned and thus were born dinosaurs. Trying to tie this in with traditional scripture though, I'll have more in a bit. This may have happened in another timeline in the Bible, trying to pinpoint that. Maybe I should call him

The dinosaurs were before men. They were an experiment, when man was being planned.

I think it is a mistake to treat these stories literally. They are either intentional metaphors or they are fragments of a story that has been lost to history. We read too much into them. It could be as simple as the men from the next tribe over the hill, which was a very powerful tribe, lusted after the daughters of the tribe the guy who wrote this came from. Thus united, the combined tribes became more powerful and amongst their members were heroes. It doesn't really have to be supernatural. No aliens are required.

Another example is the flood story. Did Noah actually build an ark and get every single species to cram in there? Of course not. The story as told in the Bible is mythological, but it might very well have a basis in truth. There was a flood. It was worldwide and that's why you find flood stories in every culture. Did it "flood the earth?" Not exactly. As the last Ice Age went through a period of global warming the ice melted and the sea level rose. If a grerat deal of water was being held back in Hudson Bay and an ice dam broke, this could have happened very fast. All seacoast civilizations were inundated. There is a great deal of actual evidence for this, but did it happen that way? We don't know, but the story of Noah is a perfect example of how something like that could have come down through an oral history tradition that could not depend on writing. Once again, the story is of a natural event. It wasn't because God was angry at the world. It wasn't supernatural. No aliens required.

So the point is that if you are willing to be a bit flexible and not hang your hat on the definition or tense of a given word in translation, you may find these stories to be insightful in their own way, but not literal. Even if you choose to interpret the stories the way I have suggested here, this is not an argument for the non-existence of God. You can still have that easily. It's just that a fundamentalist interpretation that every word in the Bible was authored by God himself, is, umm, unlikely.

reply to post by jhill76
see you can;t get any of this type of stuff on religious forums...

they will tell you the sword coming out of Gods mouth in revelations is an actual 'sword' and other quaint metaphors are taken to the literal.

members on ATS religious section are flexible like that

reply to post by windword


We have an apparent location for the area they "fell" to... Mount Hermon in Israel

According to the Encyclopedia Britannica, Hermon means "Forbidden Place." Jerome (4th-century translator of the Latin Vulgate Bible) interpreted Hermon as "anathema." Mount Hermon was the port of entry for a group of wicked angels, who corrupted the human race in the days of Noah. Moses wrote: "The sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose …. There were giants in the earth in those days, and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown" (Gen. 6:1-4). We have discussed these "Nephilim" in previous issues, but in this article, I want to add some things that you may not have heard before. For example, there is a rabbinical remark about this story in an ancient Jewish commentary, in which two rabbis add the following insight: "Rabbi Jose says, following a tradition, that these [Nephilim] were Uzza and Azazel, whom, God deprived of their supernal sanctity. How, it may be asked, can they exist in this world? Rabbi Hiya answers, that they were of a class of spirits referred to in the words, ‘and birds which fly on the earth’ (Gen 1:20), and these, as we have said, appear to men in the form of human beings. If it is asked, how can they transform themselves? The answer is, that they do, in fact, transform themselves into all kinds of shapes, because when they come down from heaven they become as concrete as air and take human shape. These are Uzza and Azazel, who rebelled in heaven, and were cast down by God, and became corporeal on the earth and remained on it, not being able to divest themselves of their earthly form. Subsequently, they went astray after women, and up to this day they exist and teach men the arts of magic. They begat children whom they called Anakim (giants), while the Nephilim themselves were called ‘sons of God’" (Zohar, vol. 1, p. 186).

Originally posted by jhill76

Originally posted by ValentineWiggin
Here is an excerpt from the Book of Enoch, for whatever that's worth, that's leading in the direction I'm trying to explain but still looking for more specific examples.

"And when men could no longer sustain them, the giants turned against them and devoured mankind. 5 And they began to sin against birds, and beasts, and reptiles, and fish, and to devour one another’s flesh, and drink the blood." Enoch 7:5-6

His theory was based on this, that the fallen angels procreated with the aforementioned and thus were born dinosaurs. Trying to tie this in with traditional scripture though, I'll have more in a bit. This may have happened in another timeline in the Bible, trying to pinpoint that. Maybe I should call him

The dinosaurs were before men. They were an experiment, when man was being planned.

Who do you think was experimenting? Who planned it? Just curious, sounds interesting.

reply to post by ValentineWiggin
sorry I can't help this!


I'll pray...

We also have an apparent date for when "they fell"

4832 BC during the time of "Jared" whose name means to "come down" and was named after the event of the watchers "coming down"

reply to post by Hydroman



First question:


Why are we using/going to to secular sources to define Biblical terms?

Originally posted by ValentineWiggin

Originally posted by jhill76

Originally posted by ValentineWiggin
Here is an excerpt from the Book of Enoch, for whatever that's worth, that's leading in the direction I'm trying to explain but still looking for more specific examples.

"And when men could no longer sustain them, the giants turned against them and devoured mankind. 5 And they began to sin against birds, and beasts, and reptiles, and fish, and to devour one another’s flesh, and drink the blood." Enoch 7:5-6

His theory was based on this, that the fallen angels procreated with the aforementioned and thus were born dinosaurs. Trying to tie this in with traditional scripture though, I'll have more in a bit. This may have happened in another timeline in the Bible, trying to pinpoint that. Maybe I should call him

The dinosaurs were before men. They were an experiment, when man was being planned.

Who do you think was experimenting? Who planned it? Just curious, sounds interesting.

In the very beginning (before creation), there was just Father and the angels. He told all, he wanted to create another (different from the angels), in which is man. At this time, all the angels were equal in rank (no archs, elders, classification, etc.) Some questioned why. (A big no no)

To properly set the parameters (emotions, sex, good/bad), he experimented with various things. The spirits were of the same, but the body (vessel) was different.

reply to post by ValentineWiggin
the song is based on the theory and fact of how we study atomic particles (life, decay and patterns)

en.wikipedia.org...

it's from 1988 too

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Hydroman

 

First question:


Why are we using/going to to secular sources to define Biblical terms?

I like it... because a sword can't really come out of a mouth.

there are sword swallower's though...

besides it's all such a great mystery it draws noobs, like how I first found myself looking into it,