Is suicide a human right?, page 2

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reply posted on 14-4-2012 @ 11:21 PM by chiroy

I'm a little confused with your thread: You ask whether suicide is a human right
Do you mean a legal or a moral right?
Legally speaking - perhaps. There are so many double standards within the law, why not make suicide legal.
Morally though - I disagree with these posts (with the exception of euthanasia - thats a whole other matter)
Wanting to end your life is very low level fear based thinking. Anyone who is suicidal is overwhelmed with fear. Fear for what tomorrow might bring, fear that things won't get better. Fear that I won't be loved.
This much fear destroys hope and absence of hope = suicidal tendencies.
I understand that some suffer from chemical imbalanced causing depression, but we all have to deal with what we've been given. It is what it is and killing oneself won't solve a single thing. It will not bring liberation but more confusion, fear and suffering. It's the law of Karma and no-one can escape it.
Bite your teeth and work through it - you will be rewarded for it.

reply posted on 14-4-2012 @ 11:23 PM by trollz

Originally posted by petrus4

Originally posted by jude11
Suicide is the only right we have that is all ours and ours alone. No one should be able to have a say in whether or not we can decide our end on our own terms.

As far as I am concerned, while we might want to consider suicide as a right in corporeal terms, it isn't in spiritual terms. That doesn't mean that I'm telling anyone else not to do it; but I won't be doing it myself.

Coming from the viewpoint that we continue on after death, and that this life after death is inevitable, what difference does it make if someone commits suicide or dies of natural or accidental causes? As physical beings, surely we can't kill our spiritual selves by physical means.

reply posted on 14-4-2012 @ 11:23 PM by Bob Sholtz

yes and no. the trouble is that brain chemistry issues and disorders can cause people to feel depressed and hopeless, which leads them to end their lives.

if someone is in a vegetative state, or terminally ill and in pain, then they should have the choice to die, but where a brain chemistry issue or neurological disorder are the cause of sadness, then treatment is preferable.

do children have the right to play in the middle of the road? it's their body afterall... you might argue that they're too young to know the consequences, but similar questions of judgement could be raised about those who wish to end their own lives (assuming no terminal illness/extreme chronic pain/vegetative state).

what difference does it make if someone commits suicide or dies of natural or accidental causes?

the difference is motive. i think those who choose an out in this life will find the next more burdensome. if a 25 year old man becomes depressed due to difficult circumstances and kills himself to shirk responsibility, it's different than someone who is old and in agony, or a vegetative state, etc. the next life is inevitable, but how you spend it is your choice.

edit on 14-4-2012 by Bob Sholtz because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 14-4-2012 @ 11:29 PM by novemberecho

yes.
If I am that g#d# miserable and I have nothing left, I should have the right.
if they've taken EVERYTHING away from us, every right we've ever had,
they absolutely should not take away the right for me to choose when I end my own life.
it would be the absolute only thing that we would have control of.

edit on 14-4-2012 by novemberecho because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 14-4-2012 @ 11:29 PM by Skepticesque

Originally posted by Bob Sholtz

i think those who choose an out in this life will find the next more burdensome

Thank you for your response.

I have a question about your belief regarding that the next life would be more burdensome. Why would that be? Why would a higher power introduce even more pain and suffering to an individual who is in excruciating pain and alleviates it through doing what will inevitably happen to them and everyone else?

Just curious is all, I appreciate all your responses.

reply posted on 14-4-2012 @ 11:45 PM by Bob Sholtz

reply to post by Skepticesque

obviously i'm not god, so where he draws the line isn't completely obvious. this is mostly due to him knowing each and every one of us better than we know ourselves. earth is a place of learning for us, and suicide is the equivalent of dropping out.

i don't have an answer for more difficult cases, but i trust god to be on top of it. what about people who are seriously psychotic due to neurological issues, was it honestly their choice to kill themselves? probably not. what then happens to them? i have no idea.

reply posted on 14-4-2012 @ 11:46 PM by petrus4

Originally posted by Skepticesque
I have a question about your belief regarding that the next life would be more burdensome. Why would that be? Why would a higher power introduce even more pain and suffering to an individual who is in excruciating pain and alleviates it through doing what will inevitably happen to them and everyone else?

I won't speak for anyone else here, but from my own perspective...

We don't know as much, right now, in waking, beta, C1 reality, as we do before and after we die. There's a state of amnesia, which is referred to as the veil, which prevents us from remembering everything when we are born on this planet. Before we're born, we make a lot of decisions about what we're going to do while we're here, in the current life.

When we get down here, our awareness gets swallowed up not only by the veil itself, but also by our ego, by all the conflict and other crap that is going on down here, and by pain etc. We don't have the same level of understanding in physical life, and as a result, all we see is excruciating pain, that we want to remove. We don't have any real context whatsoever. We don't consciously remember our previous lives, or the objectives we gave ourselves before we came here.

So from the corporeal perspective, sure; suicide can look like a great idea, because all we're thinking is, "I'm in pain and I want to end it." We don't realise, though, that the pain might have some point associated with it. Despite the pain, we might have intended to wait a certain length of time until we contact someone who we needed to see, as one example...but that is only one example. There might be other things which we need to do, which the pain, despite being bad, doesn't necessarily prevent us from doing.

I might advocate euthenasia in the case of a vegetative or comatose person, so that the soul in question is free to continue with its' development, and is not trapped; but prior to doing that, I'd probably want to find a suitably qualified shaman who could perform a retrieval, and ask the soul in question what it wants first.

reply posted on 14-4-2012 @ 11:50 PM by calnorak

I gave up on giving up. I feel it is a right, unfortunately I am a slave that is unable to kill myself. I tried several times, I also tried treatment, I just cant see a point to life. Life was ok when I didn't have to deal with anything.

How does that saying go? "I can't believe when I was a kid all I wanted to do is grow up, what was I thinking?"

Yeah you tell someone your sick of life and they call 911 and then the whole ordeal gets blown out of proportion. Let me die, I won't be here anymore and you can deal with this hell we live in.

reply posted on 14-4-2012 @ 11:54 PM by windword

Originally posted by petrus4

Originally posted by jude11
Suicide is the only right we have that is all ours and ours alone. No one should be able to have a say in whether or not we can decide our end on our own terms.

As far as I am concerned, while we might want to consider suicide as a right in corporeal terms, it isn't in spiritual terms. That doesn't mean that I'm telling anyone else not to do it; but I won't be doing it myself.

I'm not sure I understand what your saying. If I'm getting you, you believe that it is indeed a human right to take ones own life, but it is a spiritual sin? Perhaps "sin" is the wrong word. But if someone is terminally ill and chooses to self terminate, would that fall in the same catagory, in your opinion, as a distraught individual seeking to self terminate?

Also, if one believes that Jesus came to die for our sins, did he commit suicide? Even though the deed wasn't committed with his own hands, it could be considered "death by cop." (Personally I don't buy into to that version of the Jesus story)

reply to post by Skepticesque

While I do subscribe to the urgings of the poet below, I'm not sure I could endure seeing the pain, pity and suffering in my family's eyes, should I succomb to a debilitating disease.

Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
Dylan Thomas

reply posted on 14-4-2012 @ 11:59 PM by Bob Sholtz

reply to post by petrus4

i think you're right about the "veil", but past that i'm not sure. perhaps we choose the body and life we're to have, or perhaps we only know how the body looks and different characteristics about it. i'm also unsure about whether we're sent here once, or many times.

what i know is that growing up i didn't see much value in myself, and i prayed for the characteristics i thought were worth something. it's only now i'm realizing that i've had everything i wanted from the start. i could envision myself picking out this life, even down to some unfortunate events and choices i've made, just to experience it.

reply posted on 15-4-2012 @ 12:04 AM by Shepp

What is death anyways? Maybe killing someone could actually be the best gift you could ever give...

reply posted on 15-4-2012 @ 12:05 AM by windword

reply to post by petrus4

I think you posted while I was typing.

When we get down here, our awareness gets swallowed up not only by the veil itself, but also by our ego, by all the conflict and other crap that is going on down here, and by pain etc. We don't have the same level of understanding in physical life, and as a result, all we see is excruciating pain, that we want to remove. We don't have any real context whatsoever. We don't consciously remember our previous lives, or the objectives we gave ourselves before we came here.

Suicide takes a certain combination of despair, pain, courage and faith, I think. Could it be a spiritual baptism, a cleansing rebirth for a disconsolate soul?

reply posted on 15-4-2012 @ 12:08 AM by Shepp

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by petrus4

Suicide takes a certain combination of despair, pain, courage and faith, I think. Could it be a spiritual baptism, a cleansing rebirth for a disconsolate soul?

Touched my heart in a strange way.

reply posted on 15-4-2012 @ 12:11 AM by SplitInfinity

Originally posted by doomedtoday
reply to post by Skepticesque

I am 24 and I have suffered from major depression from 5 years old, I know that sounds like bs but I assure you it isn't. I also have borderline personality disorder. I think about offing myself way too much, it really doesn't help when nothing ever goes your way or works out good for you in life. Killing yourself is the easy way out, even though if something doesn't work out for me within the next few years and I get stuck with all of this student loan debt without any hopes of a job, I'll pretty much have no choice anymore. I've called people who have killed themselves from depression cowards, half of them didn't even have it as bad as I do... Not everyone who does it is a coward. But if you do it because you're too weak to keep fighting, what are you? I fight this battle each and every day, it sucks, it really does, but you have to keep fighting - especially if you have children. I hate myself so much because I want to die and just have it all end already, I shouldn't feel that way, I have children that need me, that is me being selfish. Killing yourself from something like depression is a weakness, this is coming from a man who will never stop suffering from the condition. However, if you are terminal and suffering, and there's no chance of getting better, you should be able to make the decision, no reason to suffer if there is no hope anyway.

I want to speak to you and I would ask you toREALLY LISTEN TO ME. I agree that if a person is Medically Terminal...and the pain is of such a level that there is no better alternative than Suicide. It should be every persons right at that stage. But...I want to talk to YOU WHO IS 24 YEARS OLD. Depression is something that is a CHEMICAL IMBALANCE IN YOUR BRAIN...OR IT COULD BE AN UNDIAGNOSED DISEASE...in either of these two scenarios....if you get the right treatment...YOU WILL WANT TO LIVE! Please keep that one thought in mind until you can be properly helped. Once you recieve the proper treatment...you will have a new lease on life and your desire to do things and become the person you want to be...even if you as yet may or maynot know that yet or have direction or a goal...CLING TO MY WORDS...ONCE YOU GET THE RIGHT TREATMENT...YOU WILL WANT TO LIVE! Not only will staying alive be paramount but ideas and goals and thoughts you have not been getting will FLOOD YOUR MIND....making you SPRING OUT OF BED in the morning...excited and ready to do something for yourself to accomplish whatever goals that will be FLOODING YOUR MIND. This will not happen without TREATMENT...and I have known people like yourself who offed themselves....a complete waste of a GIFT...LIFE. I have also...since one of my families companies is in the Medical field....seen people of your age and even younger...want to Die because of Depression which when left untreated has actual physical symptoms. Some people will tell you it is all in your head...but I KNOW THAT IS UNTRUE....it feels like a Heart Attack for some who are having Anxiety...for others it is Fear...others it is a weight of responsibility...others it is boredom. IT CAN ALL BE FIXED! YOU CAN BE HAPPY and the change is SO SWIFT and SO DRAMATIC that some people may break out into Laughter or Cry their eyes out once they realise what they almost LOST....all because of a Chemical or Biological IMBALANCE that by simply taking a pill a day...CHANGED THEIR LIVES OR ALLOWED THEM TO LIVE AND BE HAPPY! I almost died several times but never more so when I was SHOT in the chest several times in a FORSAKEN PLACE i cannot detail...but what kept me going after the initial ANGER for allowing myself to be set up....never again!....and the adrenaline Rush that allowed me to ask for my Rifle back from one of my team and while I was being worked on...I used part of my team members body to rest part of my Rifle on it and put an end to that particular dirt bags Traps for Cowards. THEN THE PAIN! Pain at such a level that you just want it to STOP ANYWAY POSSIBLE INCLUDING YOUR OWN DEATH! What kept me going was that my Team needed me even though I was down...I KNEW I would pull through....because even though my Super Light Weight Advanced Body Armour had been penetrated because of how close I was when being Shot...It had prevented deep penetration and I still had to pull through to be there 3 weeks later to seal the deal. Only one of them had been targeted as this shooting was as much of a surprise to THEM AS IT WAS TO ME and it was later explained that if I didn't shoot him...one of his own would have. But YOU HAVE A POSSIBILITY FOR A WHOLE NEW LIFE! All you need is the right treatment and it should be quick if you are lucky and will never think about OFFING YOURSELF AGAIN!
GOOD LUCK AND TRUST ME...I Have BEEN THERE! A new life! Split Infinity

reply posted on 15-4-2012 @ 12:38 AM by yesterdaysreality

reply to post by Skepticesque

Suicide is a personal choice and each person has the right. It's a hard thing to do, I know because I have contemplated suicide since a very early age and have tried on a couple of occassions. I was told by a psychologist that I have to find a reason to live. So that is what I do, I find reasons to live, e.g., when one of my children tells me how much I mean or have meant to them. I know killing myself would hurt them deeply and my children mean the world to me.

I especially think if a person is in severe pain and suffering with no hope of ever getting better, that they should be allowed out of that misery if they choose. I also believe there should be assisted suicide in certain cases because it would be the humane thing to do.

reply posted on 15-4-2012 @ 12:41 AM by yesterdaysreality

reply to post by yesterdaysreality

FYI, I have a chemical imbalance and take meds to help with depression and anxiety.

reply posted on 15-4-2012 @ 01:03 AM by schlomo

I'm surprised by how many people say yes. Not that I disagree completely.

Euthanasia excluded, I think suicide is one of the most selfish things that one can do. Everyone has at least one other person in the world that cares for them. It's unnatural for a man to die before his father.

That's my 2 cents anyway

reply posted on 15-4-2012 @ 01:13 AM by petrus4

Originally posted by schlomo
I'm surprised by how many people say yes.

The Left in particular have largely been trained to define a human right as being anything which they want, irrespective of whether or not said desire is necessary for their actual survival, or socially beneficial. As a result, the integrity of the general concept of human rights, (and thus the concept's value) has become seriously corroded...which was, of course, the intent in the first place.

edit on 15-4-2012 by petrus4 because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 15-4-2012 @ 01:59 AM by Dark Ghost

Originally posted by petrus4
According to my own definition of what a right is, suicide probably also couldn't be considered a right; because I define rights as things which an individual needs in order to maintain life. The entire purpose of suicide is to end life.

Is taking a walk in the park not a right? What about going for a swim at the beach? How about playing hide-and-seek with your child? Or listening to your favourite song? Are these things not rights, even though they are not needed to maintain life?

reply posted on 15-4-2012 @ 02:19 AM by trollz

Originally posted by schlomo
I'm surprised by how many people say yes. Not that I disagree completely.

Euthanasia excluded, I think suicide is one of the most selfish things that one can do. Everyone has at least one other person in the world that cares for them. It's unnatural for a man to die before his father.

That's my 2 cents anyway

If one person is dying of a terminal illness or they are suffering needlessly, I think it is more selfish for the other person to desire to keep them around for their own company. Wouldn't it be better if we wished them peace and release from their suffering?

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