Pole shift in 2012?

Granted, I was only using the pigeon example since I have proof that they can sense and navigate using the Earth's magnetic field. Now between you and I, I can generally tell you which compass direction I am facing when blindfolded and have no problem navigating with just a map and no compass or GPS when I am out flyfishing in an unknown area. To accept that as truth would require trust between the reader and myself and would more likely result in a troll peeking its ugly head here to refute my claims.

I would not go so far as to say that the Earth's magnetic poles could flip in response to a pole change in the sun either - because if this were the case, the Earth's poles would flip approximately every 11 years. I also find it difficult to believe that a reversal, or change in the magnetic poles would cause massive destruction as some websites would claim. Opponents would say the change would be gradual with minimal damage, but do we actually have any proof of that?

I am willing to accept that the pole is moving and accelerating, that we are contributing to the risk of plate slippage and that there are other influences at play that we have not fully cataloged and understood yet.

In a highly chaotic environment, a small influence can have a dramatic effect. In a stable environment, change is a lot harder to effect.

We seem to be having an awful lot of chaos lately - a big zit got popped on the seafloor of the Gulf of Mexico a little while ago, and this would have an effect on the chandler wobble, causing it become more erratic, hence perhaps the observation of the accelerated magnetic North Pole shift. Add this to the increased incidence of earthquakes and volcanic activity which is a good indicator of plate activity. Throw in the lubricating and other effects of Fracking and the widespread use of this technique in the hunt for cheap energy throughout the world.

I'm pretty sure none of this could have happened in the past - we had to get to this level of technology to have such an effect on the Earth. Or did it happen before and we just have no proof of it?

reply to post by Manalow


I certainly believe that you can navigate well. I do as well and I think that the trick is being aware of your surroundings and just plain old experience. I pretty much knew that you used the pigeon as an example. I was just trying to extend your well written post at the same time exploring your thinking.

I'm not so sure that the actions of fracking affect more than near surface faults. The drilling does not go that deep. No one has ever drilled as deep as the depth at which the Japanese quake struck.

Studies have been done looking for extinction correlations with magnetic reversals and nothing has been found. That does not mean that some species go into extinction while the majority are unaffected.

Okay, but what is the difference between a deep fault and a surface covering it? What you are doing is leaving a slipping, seeping surface of shale where fragile bedrock once was. You fracture the crust where it used to be semi-permanent. You deflate the surface of the earth and prevent the impending Methane burp. How do you do that? Well, we burn it off when we can't sell it.

I bet you deepen any faults that pre-exist.

I am just saying, in terms of plate tectonics, this could only promote slippage and gassing where it should not normally occur as the result of natural processes.

I guess a nuclear pile close to melting down will not have an effect.

I have a fascination with Thorium, and especially the reactors. I have a wierd theory about some 12,000 year old Chinese pyramids and the Indus valley.

But then I should explain how Jesus (Issa, Isa) could survive his crucifixion.

reply to post by Manalow


Removing fluid pressure through oil removal or water removal or gas removal only has an affect down to the permeable layers. Deep quakes are not affected because they lie deeper than permeable layers do. Shale is not permeable. That is why fracking is done. The gas reserves are from deeper sedimentary beds. Eventually you go deep enough and there is a point at which all deeper rocks are nonpermeable.

Most earthquakes are in that zone - the nonpermeable.

reply to post by Rocketman7


To answer the initial question, yes the north pole started shifting in 1590 at least according to NOAA.
www.ngdc.noaa.gov...

I don't believe the Mayan calendar propagandist, I don't think anyone knows what that calendar represents. The cosmic year lasts for 129,600 years.
"cosmic year represents exactly five platonic years (5x25,920=129,600)." en.wikipedia.org...

I don't mind telling you why I believe that.
"At the beginning and end of each cycle, the universe is in a yin state of dormancy called the cosmic winter. On our planet, this manifests as an ice age".
According to this site the earth is very close to the end of that cycle:
www.divediscover.whoi.edu...


If you use those time lines every 129,600 years, whatever is about to happen, puts the earth into or out of and ice age. If you note the occurrence of earth quakes on this map: www.iris.edu...
I would say that the earth is in fact growing.

At the risk of being considered a fear monger, and I'm not, I just believe information is our only Allie, what you don't know can kill you. I started looking into several prophecy, what I found isn't pretty.

"The Saga even tells how once upon a time the earth tilted, resulting in a huge mass of water turning into "damp". The "damp" became concentrated around the magnetic poles causing it to condense and turn into ICE! While this happened within the time-frame of months, it wasn't possible to escape the enormous ice-cap that eventually covered the whole of the arctic world, all the way south to the Pyrenees, Alps, Caucasian and Himalayan mountains, as well as along the Rockies in North America."http://aleksur.blogspot.com/2006/04/secret-of-atlantis-and-santa-clause_24.html

If you use NOAA's information you would see that the north pole is headed in the direction of Finland, if you don't believe in the Bock saga: www.abovetopsecret.com...
then go back to the Wiki on the cosmic year and pay attention to what's said. I believe the last one made the Aryan race, and science supports that.Then consider that it's not all I'm calling on.

" There are a number of legends about dragons. According to one, long ago when mist surrounded the earth, dragons were created in great rivers, and sprawling lakes, storm clouds and typhoons. They swam in the seas off the coast of China and moved about so much they stirred up enough sediment to make the island of Taiwan, where they rested, slept and still reside. "
factsanddetails.com...

Hopi prophecy www.crystalinks.com...
"These are the Signs that great destruction is coming. The world shall rock to and fro. The white man will battle against other people in other lands -- with those who possessed the first light of wisdom. There will be many columns of smoke and fire such as White Feather has seen the white man make in the deserts not far from here. Only those which come will cause disease and a great dying. "

Revelation Chapter 21
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

"There will be many columns of smoke and fire such as White Feather has seen the white man make in the deserts not far from here. Only those which come will cause disease and a great dying. "

I think you can figure out what I think this is:


If we get these things shut down now we will at least stand a chance at surviving, if not it's not looking good.

On a different note the 2012 propagandist say the Mayan calendar has the earth spinning faster than it is now.

Climate and weather may not be the only phenomena related to rotation. There are indications that changes in the interior of the Earth may alter the spinning speed, as well as the position of the poles. Some scientists claim that December's tsunami-causing Sumatra earthquake resulted in a shortening of the day by 2.68 millionths of a second.
www.livescience.com...

The 8.9-magnitude earthquake in Japan on March 11 shortened Earth's day by 1.8 millionths of a second, according to NASA scientists. Earth still tilts on its axis by 23.5 degrees, as before. But, since the March 11 earthquake, Earth is spinning faster than before, and our day is ever so slightly shorter from sunrise to sunset.
www.fastcompany.com...

I'm out of room but I believe the end of this age to be 2018, not 2012.

reply to post by badmonkey

To answer the initial question, yes the north pole started shifting in 1590 at least according to NOAA.

You began your post with information that was not about poleshifts. It was about the geomagnetic field which we all know moves. The link you provided was for the position of the magnetic north pole.

Next you make a claim that something in Chinese astrology is somehow linked to ice ages. The graph does not appear to support anything about 130,000 years.

reply to post by badmonkey

I would say that the earth is in fact growing.

How do you reach this conclusion? I don't see a connection to anything presented.

The Bock Saga you quote is not a prophecy, but a Finnish tale whose origins are uncertain. As the blog states

According to the Bock Saga as told in 1985, the predecessors of the Aser were living in Finland already BEFORE ICE-TIME.

Again, this is about the magnetic poles and not a poleshift.

On a different note the 2012 propagandist say the Mayan calendar has the earth spinning faster than it is now.

Could you direct me a place that makes this claim. I have not bumped into this.

In general, the Earth spins slower over time as momentum is transferred from the Earth to the Moon.

The speeds up you reference are due to conservation of angular momentum.

reply to post by stereologist


I don't think we were talking about the same pole shift, sorry. And thank you.
Beyond that I have gone on a tour of a lot of myths and stories over the past year, those listed tell you what's happening now, what it's leading too and what it looked like.
This started with the Mayan calendar, but I figured out their date was wrong. An alignment between sun and the center of the galaxy happens every year, when astrology is in Ophiuchus, this year that would be the 23rd. There are 3 other groups of people that know who the white race are and at least 2 are mentioned in that saga. The "first families" are the reason I'm certain that saga is correct, that and I know where blue eyes came from. Science does confirm that blue eyes happen due to an ice age in Europe.
Find out what the phreemessens loge floor looks like before you read this link, it's no surprise that they kept this history away from people.

www.mousewaggler.co.uk... Of Christmas&Id=42

This is another link to the bock saga. As far as what the fellow that wrote the blog said I can only speculate that he meant "when" it started, I thought he said that. He did say they found stoves in that place dating back 350,000 years ago. Did you know Kukulcan white hair blue eyes Quetzalcoatl?
"This fits the profile of what Kukulcan would have been like, coming from the sea, looking like a European, and teachings of government, medicine, and agriculture, all fit into the idea that Kukulcan could have been from the ancient Atlantis."
voices.yahoo.com...
Big surprise, they were teaching government.
This link doesn't have the description I offered but I can't find the places I saw that Jesus, Muhhamed was the history channel on the Koran, Buddha dhammawiki.com..., that would imply Shiva too, the description I read on Shiva when I had enough and decided to look said "matted blond hair blue eyes".

The reason those graphs make sense to me is that I spent a lot of time learning about earths history. My only handicap is a key board, I can't get into all that.
But the top graph shows the earth coming out of an ice age 129,600 years ago, unless my math sucks 259,200, ice age, 388,800 drops into an ice age, 418,400 ice age, which end 2 cosmic years of really nice weather on earth, 647,600 ice age. Under causes it say's "The Earth’s orbit changes from circular to slightly elongate and back again about every 100,000 years." what I don't see is any change every 100,000 years. I hope I addressed all of your questions.
The only reason I came here was, we have time to keep those power plants from decimating this country. I agree with the Hopi we can cushion it, you know they met the blue eyed tribe too.
www.youtube.com...
If it happens the way I believe it will, I would make sure the ancestors would "know the day and the hour". I believe they tried.

reply to post by stereologist


240 days in a year then 260 and I've seen 270. If you knew about agriculture, the reason for having a calendar would be planting season but they didn't need one for that. A more popular Mayan calender web site asked the question "What were the Maya counting down?" on a dvd they produced. that was 2009
"Julian year is slightly longer than the Gregorian year" link below
They changed time twice.
saturniancosmology.org...

The original count of years was started in 8347 BC, when the southern plasmoids first showed up.

In 3147 BC, as the 13th Baktun was completed, the "Era of the Gods" came to a close, and a new count was started of Baktuns, Katuns, Tuns, Uinals, and Days. A calendar of days was instituted, amounting to a rotation of 20 named days. These repeated 12 times to account for the 240 days of the year. The 12 may have rotated at the same time as the 20 named days.

In 2349 BC this was augmented with a rotation of one extra day, a total of 13 numbered days (representing a half period of the Moon) simultaneously with the 20 named days. This is called the "Tzolkin," and consists of a total of 260 distinctly identified days (named and numbered) before repeating again, and exactly filling the year of 260 days.

In 1492 BC another calendar was introduced, called the "Haab," consisting of 20 numbered days rotating through 18 named "months," which totalled 360 days.

The Haab was adjusted in 747 BC to add 5 extra days (a short month), so that the calendar then totalled 365 days.

An accurate count of days was also established in 747 BC, with a system called the "Long Count." The Long Count tallied days, "months" of 20 days, years (called "Tuns") of 360 days (not 365), double decades of 20 Tuns (called "Katuns"), and a measure of 400 years, called simply "400," or, in the nomenclature of archaeologists, "Baktuns."

I've read those pages a couple of times, I saw "before ice time" that ice time lasted some 70,000+ years, the last "end of age" took the earth out of that one. If that one turned eyes blue, that would mean that

I really didn't realize we were talking about different pole shift, it's shift to the east now.

reply to post by badmonkey


The idea that myth is history has been shown to be wrong in many, many cases. Can animals talk to humans? No. In general they cannot make the necessary sounds due to the physics of their voice box. Was the Earth ever inundated in a global flood? No. Was the Earth swept clear of all life? No. Can heads be lopped off and attached to other bodies and live again? No. Myth may be partly based on real events. Did Schliemann find Troy? Yes, but not the Troy of the story.

The reason those graphs make sense to me is that I spent a lot of time learning about earths history. My only handicap is a key board, I can't get into all that.
But the top graph shows the earth coming out of an ice age 129,600 years ago, unless my math sucks 259,200, ice age, 388,800 drops into an ice age, 418,400 ice age, which end 2 cosmic years of really nice weather on earth, 647,600 ice age. Under causes it say's "The Earth’s orbit changes from circular to slightly elongate and back again about every 100,000 years." what I don't see is any change every 100,000 years. I hope I addressed all of your questions.

The graph is not as regular as you suggest. The Chinese astrology time span is unrelated to physical actions on Earth. The Chinese did not measure that time period. They certainly did not have the tools to obtain 4 digits of precision.

reply to post by badmonkey

240 days in a year then 260 and I've seen 270. If you knew about agriculture, the reason for having a calendar would be planting season but they didn't need one for that. A more popular Mayan calender web site asked the question "What were the Maya counting down?" on a dvd they produced. that was 2009
"Julian year is slightly longer than the Gregorian year" link below
They changed time twice.

The Julian year is in a sense longer than the Gregorian, by .01 days. In 100 years it is 1 day too long. This happened because every 4 years is a leap year in the Julian calendar. In the Gregorian any year divisible by 100 is not unless it is also divisible by 400.

The site you referenced does not present information correctly. The dates they give for Mayan calendars are not true. They even get the start of the Gregorian calendar wrong. All of that claptrap about Mayan "months" and "years" is garbage. Those are units of times used by a civilization. Archaeologists did not create the term baktun. That is from the Mayans themselves.

The problem they run into in that bogus site is that the correlation between the Gregorian and the long count has nothing whatsoever to do with earlier dates or calendars. The correlation has considered all of that. To pretend it has not is purposely misleading or the authors of the site have no idea how correlations are worked out.

From the home page of the site it states:

This book presents a cosmology based entirely on the supposition that our coherent worldwide mythology is history rather than creative fiction writing in antiquity.

PS. Put quoted material in quotes.

Myth may be partly based on real events.

reply to post by stereologist


It's taking me awhile to get the examples together for my answer to that, your right obviously but where do you get the myths from to discern fact from fiction?



7 minutes in should do it
I couldn't believe Noory didn't ask so I will: Who are they?
Putting a link in to direct the answer is my problem copy and paste it in a new browser window and take the spaces out.

http://w w w.rosi crucian. com/frc/frceng01.htm

http:// books.google.com/books?id=Ls2F5i6_LeYC&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false

It's an older organization than you would think. I don't believe in aliens, I haven't found a reason. Dumb animals with bad attitudes.

XIV. "in the beginning he established rulers, and bade them ordain fates with him......
XV. Thither came Allfather and craved one drink of the well; but he got it not until he laid his eye in pledge.

reply to post by badmonkey


Your link is broken. It is the following:
www.youtube.com...

The claim that giant skeletons exist is false. There are plenty of "giant" skeletons in museums such as in:

www.roadsideamerica.com...

Why not the skeletons shown in the photos? Because those are fakes.

Here is a write up at the Museum of Hoaxes
www.museumofhoaxes.com...

or

www.snopes.com...

I believe it will happen. A normal pole shift will take a long time but if it is precipitated by a natural event like WWIII and/or a comet strike? These things are a clear possibility with the current world scenario of economic/political instability across the world. Just my opinion.

reply to post by drngopal


Why do you think WWIII would affect the Earth with a pole shift?
Why do you think an impact would affect a pole shift?

There have been impacts in the last 200My, yet there has not been a pole shift in that time period.

I'm curious, so please let us know your thinking. Thanks.

reply to post by stereologist


There is enough evidence stating that huge blasts/explosions in the megaton range and earthquakes of a big magnitude cause a shift in the earth's axis. The recent Japan earthquake had also caused a significant shift in the earth's axis. Needless to say, WWIII will have some megaton events going off. Thats the reason I expect a shift in the earth's axis.

My opinion is as the earth's axis shifts, the poles are going to get warmer. The recent news of Arctic ice melting at an alarming rate and massive ice masses in Antarctica breaking off could all be related to this shift. The crust of the earth is just a solid layer moving on a liquid inner core. With the melting of the present poles and movement of water, the mass of the crust is going through some significant imbalances which will increase the shifting forces.

In the big picture, nothing is stationary. The earth is revolving, moving around the sun and the earth's crust is also moving. We are too small a force to realize the movement. We are happy going around doing our work, feeding our families like the ant which keeps going and going till something comes crashing on it and obliterates it.

Not quite as described in the beginning post.

First, the poles -- that is to say, the magnetic poles, are shifting almost constantly. The magnetic North Pole - the spot to which magnetic compasses point - is somewhere up in northernmost Canada and has moved about a mile a year for the last century or so. The magnetic pole is about 80 miles south of the geographic pole - the axis on which the planet turns. The geographic pole has not moved appreciably for centuries and is not likely to move appreciably for centuries to come.

Second, a magnetic shift is not only possible, it has already happened. The considerable pull of the magnetic pole on the point of the compass fades away very very gradually. As this happens, the compass point may take a few seconds longer to settle on the direction of North. At some point, the magnetic pull will vanish altogether and a magnetic compass which just point any whichway randomly. Then a new magnetic pole in the Arctic Circle will begin to assert itself very very gradually -- except the magnetic pole in the Arctic Circle will attract what we think of as the South end of the compass pointer, and the North end of the pointer will be pulled to a spot in the Antarctic. And very gradually these new poles will gather magnetic strength, so that the compass needle will settle on the new North-South directions faster and more decisively with time. Then their magnetic pull will peak, then begin to decline again and the entire process will repeat with north and south magnetic poles changing places again.

You, dead reader, won't actually see this happening. It will take many centuries before the magnetic north and south vanish and more centuries before it is obvious that they have changed places,

But we know this has already happened. Examinations of clay and earth from deep drilling have shown that the iron dust in the mud at some depth (representing the most ancient earth) all lined up one way oriented to one direction. Going through layers of dirt representing the earth of several centuries later, the iron dust is not lined up the same way - as it becomes less and less unanimous in one direction, it means that the strength of the magnetic pole was diminishing. Then at some point the iron dust is simply randomized, when their was little or no magnetic pull at all. Then it begins to line up again, first a little then a lot, but in the opposite direction. That's how we know it has happened and roughly how slow the process is.

There will be no sudden reversal of the poles, and nothing noticeable in our lifetime. But even if it were to happen suddenly, it wouldn't be the end of the world; it wouldn't even do much damage.

reply to post by drngopal

There is enough evidence stating that huge blasts/explosions in the megaton range and earthquakes of a big magnitude cause a shift in the earth's axis. The recent Japan earthquake had also caused a significant shift in the earth's axis. Needless to say, WWIII will have some megaton events going off. Thats the reason I expect a shift in the earth's axis.

Thanks for the clarification on your statements. Much appreciated.

I would point out that the shift in the Earth's axis is not due ot the release of energy by the quake, but by the redistribution of mass. The mass moves closer to the Earth's center. Just as a skater's rotation speeds up when the arms are drawn in, the Earth also speeds up. Another effect is that the change in position of mass causes the axes along which we rotate to shift a little. The axis remains parallel to its previous orientation. It's just a little offset.

If a blast or explosion is to change the Earth's rotation it must move mass.

My opinion is as the earth's axis shifts, the poles are going to get warmer. The recent news of Arctic ice melting at an alarming rate and massive ice masses in Antarctica breaking off could all be related to this shift. The crust of the earth is just a solid layer moving on a liquid inner core. With the melting of the present poles and movement of water, the mass of the crust is going through some significant imbalances which will increase the shifting forces.

Some more interesting ideas here.

I agree that the poles are getting warmer. When large things change, such as the amount of polar ice we can suspect that large changes are underway. The shift of the Earth can be easily measured. Star charts give the position of stars with great precision. If the Earth shifted so that the poles had moved a great deal, then too every other place on Earth including all observatories would also be moved. There has been a change in star charts, but due to the Earth's precession. The new charts put out a few years ago deal with precession as have all star charts since they were first created. The core is also very far down. The crust sits on the mantle. The mantle is quite thick. To shift the crust and the mantle would require a HUGE amount of energy, much much larger than what a pole shift, as defined by Hancock, would require. That is why the idea was invented that the crust could slip on top of the mantle.

In the big picture, nothing is stationary. The earth is revolving, moving around the sun and the earth's crust is also moving. We are too small a force to realize the movement. We are happy going around doing our work, feeding our families like the ant which keeps going and going till something comes crashing on it and obliterates it.

Beautifully stated.

There seems to be some interest in pole shifts especially with respect to Nancy Lieder and the Ning site.

It is interesting how the idea of pole shifts, meaning like Hapgood's ECDs continues to persist.

reply to post by stereologist


You're getting it a bit wrong.
Or rather your source material is off.

What Hancock, and you describe is Continental shift which does happen.
The crust able to slip and slide over the Mantel, this has happened before and can be seen in the geologic time scale.

A pole shift, which does happen is the true magnetic reversal of the magnetic poles.
This happens to the sun every decade or so which causes in increase in sun spots which we are currently seeing.

Put simply to describe the magnetic reversal as saying "the crust moves and what was in the north is now in the south" is just plain wrong.

Can the crust slip and slide? Yes there is plenty of evidence of that.
Does it slip and slide with every pole reversal? No.

Want evidence? look at the sea bed.
The sea bed shows the different pole shifts our earth has undergone.
If the crust shifted drastically with every pole shift the magnetic evidence would be consumed up by the crust movement and recycled.
Either ground into small material which we can not tell it's orientation, or pushed under the crust to form lava.

Is it possible a pole shift would destabilize the entire crust?
Yes, but unlikely.

Put simply Hancock is wrong, and by phrasing your question the way you did you are propagating incorrect information.

Ask if the pole shift will occur and what effect that could have.
Ask if the pole shift could cause the crust to slip.
Or if the crust could slip on it's own for some unknown reason.

Don't phrase your question by defining a pole shift in terms of something it is not.
You spread very bad information that way...