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Is the Bible an Authority?

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posted on Apr, 15 2012 @ 12:14 PM
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reply to post by EnochWasRight
 


About two thirds of your post, I agree wholeheartedly with.

The Bible is full of "dark sayings" and "parables", truths that we were not yet ready for. Soon, though, the truth will be set free, and we will all understand.




posted on Apr, 15 2012 @ 02:25 PM
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Originally posted by CirqueDeTruth
reply to post by Akragon
 


I've read the bible. More than once and extensively in part. I'm more interested in dialogue about the concepts of the bible and Christianity.

In truth, I'm an outside perspective as I am not Christian. However, I'm an open-minded and tolerant sort of person - and I genuinely enjoy religious debate. But I don't come here to find a religion or because I'm lost spiritually or some other false assumption somebody might have. To clarify - I simply enjoy discussing ideas and concepts regarding religion, spirituality, and the paranormal. I am not a candidate for conversion, as I can't be Christian, I disagree with a LOT of the bible and don't believe it's an authority on anything. That being said, I still enjoy studying it as one of the worlds belief traditions. I just don't agree that it is infallible.


I believe you misunderstand my motives for posting what i did... I am not christian either... i seek no conversion, those i admit what i say has been responsible for conversions on numerous occasions. *shrug*

I only offer advice on approaching bible study... As a whole, the bible is no authority... but His words are the authority on life and spirituality in general.

The bible is NOT infallible... this has been proven many times on these forums... but... HIS words are completely infallible... This opinion comes from years of studying his words and compareing them with the rest of the bible, and other scripture not found within said book.

HIS words are a guide line for truth... This is why i said, IF you want to learn about him.... read his words...

Believe me my friend, im not here to convert people to religion... religion brings people to God, but it will only take ones spiritual progression so far... and it limits a persons understanding of spirituality in general...

I am "scouted" regularly for conversion by many different religions... but they do not understand that my conversion is an impossible task...

IF you enjoy these debates... im sure we will chat eventually... and if you have questions about what i say... please feel free to send me a PM


edit on 15-4-2012 by Akragon because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 15 2012 @ 02:29 PM
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reply to post by Akragon
 




Believe me my friend, im not here to convert people to religion... religion brings people to God, but it will only take ones spiritual progression so far... and it limits a persons understanding of spirituality in general...


So true, religion is the stepping stone to get people to him. But, to have a deeper relationship with him, you must learn to follow his guidance and have a direct relationship with him, and not an indirect relationship through a pastor/preacher, etc.



posted on Apr, 16 2012 @ 11:01 AM
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reply to post by Akragon
 


It would seem that no one is without misconceptions. Such is life, I am told. I'm simply establishing myself here at ATS, and it should be known that I also cannot be converted. My own personal experiences demand that I have a different way of practice and belief.

I have several family members, particularly my in-laws, who are very religious. Nazarene to be exact. Thus, bible study has been a part of my life since I married into my extended family. The handful of times I have been to service, has been always precluded by bible study. It's an integral part of the Nazarene worship at their church anyhow. They gift me with books and send me to various websites and enjoy discussing their religion with me generally. (It should be noted, they do no put up with learning about mine, though.) I know that some of my in-laws do not care for me, as it has been 15 years or so now and still, they have done little to bringing me around to becoming a "Christian" and born again. (Shrugs.)

I'm very eclectic in my personal beliefs and practices regarding spirituality. It's very naturalistic and built into a way of being and thinking. Rather than time set aside for worship and praise. My Father-in-Law whom I do not get on well with at all, calls it "Witchcraft riff-raff". LOL. It's rather cute, don't you think?



posted on Apr, 16 2012 @ 12:04 PM
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Originally posted by CirqueDeTruth
reply to post by Akragon
 


It would seem that no one is without misconceptions. Such is life, I am told. I'm simply establishing myself here at ATS, and it should be known that I also cannot be converted. My own personal experiences demand that I have a different way of practice and belief.

I have several family members, particularly my in-laws, who are very religious. Nazarene to be exact. Thus, bible study has been a part of my life since I married into my extended family. The handful of times I have been to service, has been always precluded by bible study. It's an integral part of the Nazarene worship at their church anyhow. They gift me with books and send me to various websites and enjoy discussing their religion with me generally. (It should be noted, they do no put up with learning about mine, though.) I know that some of my in-laws do not care for me, as it has been 15 years or so now and still, they have done little to bringing me around to becoming a "Christian" and born again. (Shrugs.)

I'm very eclectic in my personal beliefs and practices regarding spirituality. It's very naturalistic and built into a way of being and thinking. Rather than time set aside for worship and praise. My Father-in-Law whom I do not get on well with at all, calls it "Witchcraft riff-raff". LOL. It's rather cute, don't you think?






Don't you find it interesting that while you are willing to learn about their religion, it's a big "no-no" for them to open up to yours? Also, your family situation just RADIATES acceptance and understanding...


Says everything to me. Such hypocrisy.



posted on Apr, 16 2012 @ 12:05 PM
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Originally posted by jhill76
reply to post by Akragon
 




Believe me my friend, im not here to convert people to religion... religion brings people to God, but it will only take ones spiritual progression so far... and it limits a persons understanding of spirituality in general...


So true, religion is the stepping stone to get people to him. But, to have a deeper relationship with him, you must learn to follow his guidance and have a direct relationship with him, and not an indirect relationship through a pastor/preacher, etc.


Yes, but who says Jesus Christ is the only way to the Creator?

It's this bigotry and narrow-mindedness that gets on my nerves most. Maybe if they weren't so picky about their path to salvation, the Church would have more members...



posted on Apr, 16 2012 @ 12:06 PM
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reply to post by EnochWasRight
 

Jesus is the Living Word, not the words on the page.

I don't see how you can support your theory that Jesus is the Living Word. I realize this is a tenet of your belief system but I personally find no validity to the idea and see it more as a way to diminish the role that Jesus plays in the greater cosmology of Christianity. To me, Jesus would be an example of someone fully actualizing the Word, if you mean word as being a translation of the Greek word, Logos, as described in John 1. The first verse of the Gospel of John identifies the Logos as God. God was fully realized, for the purpose of revealing Himself, through the agency of a man, Jesus, who was filled with the spirit of God at his baptism by John the Baptist.
You go on to say that the Word is not written letters on a page, then proceed to explain why it really is, but just needs to be properly deciphered. Again, if you mean the Word, as described by John 1 as a translation of the Greek word logos, then it is the same thing, which is God, though it it is not God coming to us as the person, God, but the spirit of God coming to us. The written word as in the Bible, contains some profound truths of God by way of certain people who were connected to God in a spiritual way, then had those revelations written down and preserved.
Since it is true that what we call the Bible was made by men, and not by God, we need to understand that there is no consistency as to there being true inspiration by God. We need to have some sort of informed opinion before taking on everything found in it as being profound truths, and could be just about anything, including people trying to seem profound, using symbology and language lifted from earlier sources, without understanding the real meanings behind them, themselves. So there are big chunks of "Bible" that are never going to have some "deep" meaning resolved from them.
edit on 16-4-2012 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 16 2012 @ 12:14 PM
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reply to post by EnochWasRight
 



Jesus is the Living Word,


Was. Past tense. He's dead...been dead for a long time. Stop relying on him.

...come to think of it, guess that means the Word is dead too, eh? That's what happens when you put your faith in man.



posted on Apr, 16 2012 @ 04:40 PM
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Originally posted by Starchild23

Originally posted by jhill76
reply to post by Akragon
 




Believe me my friend, im not here to convert people to religion... religion brings people to God, but it will only take ones spiritual progression so far... and it limits a persons understanding of spirituality in general...


So true, religion is the stepping stone to get people to him. But, to have a deeper relationship with him, you must learn to follow his guidance and have a direct relationship with him, and not an indirect relationship through a pastor/preacher, etc.


Yes, but who says Jesus Christ is the only way to the Creator?

It's this bigotry and narrow-mindedness that gets on my nerves most. Maybe if they weren't so picky about their path to salvation, the Church would have more members...


Many people have their own way to God. He recognizes all of them.



posted on Apr, 16 2012 @ 04:47 PM
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Originally posted by jhill76

Originally posted by Starchild23

Originally posted by jhill76
reply to post by Akragon
 




Believe me my friend, im not here to convert people to religion... religion brings people to God, but it will only take ones spiritual progression so far... and it limits a persons understanding of spirituality in general...


So true, religion is the stepping stone to get people to him. But, to have a deeper relationship with him, you must learn to follow his guidance and have a direct relationship with him, and not an indirect relationship through a pastor/preacher, etc.


Yes, but who says Jesus Christ is the only way to the Creator?

It's this bigotry and narrow-mindedness that gets on my nerves most. Maybe if they weren't so picky about their path to salvation, the Church would have more members...


Many people have their own way to God. He recognizes all of them.


Agreed...

though i do believe understanding the words of Jesus... and putting them into action is the Best way to have lived when its our time to face God...

That is why he said I AM the WAY...


edit on 16-4-2012 by Akragon because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 16 2012 @ 07:57 PM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


Your answer. LINK



posted on Apr, 16 2012 @ 08:36 PM
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Originally posted by Starchild23
reply to post by EnochWasRight
 



Jesus is the Living Word,


Was. Past tense. He's dead...been dead for a long time. Stop relying on him.

...come to think of it, guess that means the Word is dead too, eh? That's what happens when you put your faith in man.


Are the tables of the moneychangers turned over?

Matthew 21

12 Jesus entered the temple courts and drove out all who were buying and selling there. He overturned the tables of the money changers and the benches of those selling doves. 13 “It is written,” he said to them, “‘My house will be called a house of prayer,’ but you are making it ‘a den of robbers.

Doves = Peace. Anyone selling peace to the highest bidder these days?

I have reason to believe that He is very much alive. Here is my evidence. THE CLOCK IS TICKING



edit on 16-4-2012 by EnochWasRight because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 16 2012 @ 08:43 PM
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reply to post by Akragon
 


Christ was not unique in his terminology. Krishna said "I Am" hundreds of years earlier and in exactly the same context. A faith of which still has a strong following today. Actually, the entirety of Christ's parallel's to Krishna is staggering. Not to mention the overall tenure of the Hindu texts states what the bible states only centuries earlier!

"I Am the Origin of All things. All things proceed from Me. I Am the source of all beings, and All beings exist within Me. No being, whether moving or unmoving, can exist without Me."
The Bagavad Gita

"I Am the Self which exists in the heart of every beings. I Am the beginning, the middle, and the end of all things."
The Bagavad Gita

"I Am the Father of the Universe. I Am the Mother. I sustain all beings. I Am the Way, the Supporter, the Lord, the Witness, the Refuge, the Friend, the Origin and the dissolution, the resting place, and the ground that holds the eternal seed."
The Bagavad Gita

"I Am the Way, the Master who watches in silence. I Am your Friend. I Am your shelter. I Am you dwelling place of peace."
The Bagavad Gita



posted on Apr, 16 2012 @ 09:06 PM
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reply to post by CirqueDeTruth
 


Can't argue with you there...

Though i like the way Jesus delt with people...

No one could argue with the man... and he always had answers




posted on Apr, 17 2012 @ 12:39 AM
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reply to post by Akragon
 


I don't understand what you mean.


Krishna is the first great messiah. He said everything that needed to be said before Christ. Including that which is about forgiveness, love, and peacefulness. Krishna said it before Christ. Centuries before Christ. All of Christ's messages are borrowed. Of later contemplation. It is a fact. Thus, the authority of the Bible and Christ for that matter, is eradicated at the extreme, correlated and corroborated at the best. Our illusions of separatism are just that - illusions.



posted on Apr, 17 2012 @ 12:59 AM
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reply to post by CirqueDeTruth
 


I meant exactly what i said actually... I don't know what is confusing you.

I've read the bhagavad gita, so i know exactly what you're saying...

We all have our preferences... I just find that Jesus is easy to relate to...

I love his words, and i really don't care if he wasn't the original person to say them either




posted on Apr, 17 2012 @ 01:10 AM
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reply to post by Akragon
 


I guess I just don't correlate. Krishna said everything before Christ. First. Literally, everything from Christ is coming second hand. This is not to say that what Christ said wasn't important. I am just stating that Christ didn't say it first. God came through Krishna, before Christ, and delivered the same messages centuries before. Christ is simply a recreation of an earlier Archetype mention by an older, more advanced philosophical viewpoint. And yes, Hinduism far exceeds Christianity, from my perspective anyways.



posted on Apr, 18 2012 @ 02:21 PM
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I guess I just don't understand the dogmatism surrounding the bible. I understand preference. I have my preferences as well and neither are based much in Christian ideology or Hindu ideology. I just think the authority of Bible, and the idea that it trumps all other schools of though, is erroneous and serves to cause much discord.

Hindu scripture is just a wonderful place, to show that others have been teaching and saying the same things for centuries and likely millennium. For me, it's a comforting thought. Perhaps the mystical symbolism is encoded into our DNA and does serve as an inherited knowledge or memory.

If it could at least be accepted, that maybe everyone is attended to and not forgotten by God, then religious intolerance could be dealt with accordingly. It just seems that we should have all accepted the right to religious freedom with our access to knowledge so easily. (shrugs)



posted on Apr, 18 2012 @ 02:25 PM
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reply to post by CirqueDeTruth
 


It's so much more complicated than that, that it's hard to pinpoint exactly where our species went wrong..especially considering a less-than-accurate history of the world.



posted on Apr, 18 2012 @ 03:05 PM
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Originally posted by CirqueDeTruth
I guess I just don't understand the dogmatism surrounding the bible. I understand preference. I have my preferences as well and neither are based much in Christian ideology or Hindu ideology. I just think the authority of Bible, and the idea that it trumps all other schools of though, is erroneous and serves to cause much discord.

Hindu scripture is just a wonderful place, to show that others have been teaching and saying the same things for centuries and likely millennium. For me, it's a comforting thought. Perhaps the mystical symbolism is encoded into our DNA and does serve as an inherited knowledge or memory.

If it could at least be accepted, that maybe everyone is attended to and not forgotten by God, then religious intolerance could be dealt with accordingly. It just seems that we should have all accepted the right to religious freedom with our access to knowledge so easily. (shrugs)


Perhaps i can explain...

take a look at hindu scripture... its all there... inclusive...

You have the original Vedas...

The Rig Veda
The Sama Veda
The Yajur Veda
The Atharva Veda

and a few other sacred texts...

Ramayana
Mahabharatha
Srimad Bhagvatam
Manusmriti
Shiva Puranam

And there is very little debate surrounding these texts (as far as i know)....

Now on the other hand, we have the bible... 66 books... compiled into one by the early church Fathers... Most of which are very questionable.... Theres well over 80 books that were left out of said compilation for various reasons... Many of these early church fathers were murdered for their beliefs... and their scripture dismissed as heretical...

Since the introduction of the internet the churches no longer have ANY authority when it comes to scripture. They can not prevent people from reading these ancient texts just by calling them heretical... This gives us the opportunity to explore scripture that isn't canonical... and find out what these people actually said instead of listening to the heads of the church and taking their word for it.

It becomes a huge puzzle that few people have attempted to solve... And i love me a good puzzle...

Honestly theres so many mysteries in early christian scripture that i could easily devote my life to the study of the material, and still not have enough time...

And i haven't even mentioned the fact that i believe mainstream christianity to be wrong in many ways... which leaves the door open for debates at all times, which i also love...

Hindu scripture, while being an excellent book ( at least the one i've read ) is all there... theres no questioning it...

On the other hand, Christian scripture leaves mostly questions to the logical mind... with very few answers...

Many can simply accept the bible as "Gods word"... that makes absolutely no sense to me... Those are the people i tend to question... The die hard fanatical Christians who think their bible is "infallible"... and they almost never have answers... their statements only lead to more questions, and eventually they give up a battle they can't win...

And just so you know... i don't buy into any of the dogmatic themes you'll hear about from your average Christian... IF one reads the book for themselves from the right starting spot... he/she gets an entirely different picture then what most do....

This is why i prefer the bible to other scripture... The bible is a starting point... from there the mysteries are limitless...




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