Cameron calls on Islam to embrace democracy and reject extremism

Cameron calls on Islam to embrace democracy and reject extremism

• Major speech in Jakarta will praise example of Indonesia
• 'Democracy and Islam can flourish alongside each other'
• Extremists are 'dangerous foe' to the whole world

In one of his most significant speeches on Islam, the prime minister will say that the world can defeat extremists, who are a "dangerous foe" on a par with supporters of slavery.

The prime minister will identify four groups he believes are determined to defeat democracy:

• Extremists. The prime minister will say he is not talking about Islam, which he will describe as a "religion observed peacefully and devoutly by over a billion people", and he will also make clear that other religions attract extremists. But he will say: "There is a problem across the globe with Islamist extremism, which is a political ideology supported by a minority." And he will go on to condemn "extremists – some of whom are violent – and all of whom want to impose a particular and very radical, extreme version of Islamism on society to the exclusion of all others. And this total rejection of debate and democratic consent means they believe that democracy and Islam are incompatible."

• Tribalists. The prime minister will cite Northern Ireland's past as an example of the "poison" of tribalists who discriminate against other groups.

• Authoritarian leaders. Cameron will cite Muammar Gaddafi, Hosni Mubarak, the former Tunisian president Zine al-Abidine Ben Ali and Assad as he says: "In each case the Arab spring has shown that denying people their rights in the name of stability and security actually makes countries less stable in the end. Over time, the pressure builds up until the people take to the streets and demand their freedoms."

• Corrupt elites. Cameron will cite the Tunisian official who prompted the fruit seller Mohammed Bouazizi to set himself alight after refusing to let him sell his goods. "Corruption denies the people their economic and political stake – the citizenship, the job and the voice that they want. Worse still, it breeds a cynicism and a sense of rage."

The Guardian

Many people appear to forget or are unaware of the fact that most people murdered by extreme Muslims are other Muslims.

Cameron is correct to state that over 1 billion follow their faith peacefully.

The "radical, extreme version of Islamism" is as much an enemy of normal Muslims as it is an enemy of secular society.

Why don't we just let all the extremest Catholics and the extremest islamist go at it? All the peaceful peeps can watch it on tv.....

The thing is "Extremists against democracy".....I don't think I know of any living soul that is anti-democracy

Besides the dictators in charge that is.

Extremists were created by the west to ensure they had public backing for their foreign wars, that have zero relevance to us civilians in the west.

Islam and Christianity could never mix I believe, they're kind of worlds apart, not through their teaching in the actual texts, that are pretty much based on the same God, but through cultural differences.

East = cover your body completely.

West = show as much as you can.

^^^ that there is one example of many.

The only extremists I have seen, with first hand experience is the Muslims over hear that say we should abide by the Easts rules. if that's the case stay in the f*cking middle East you toss pots.

It really is very simple. nothing confusing about it. We wouldn't have these extremists if we had the right to kick these twats out the country......and stopped bombing their homeland.

There's your solution, summed up in 2 seconds

just in: islam and arabs countries call on cameron, his government and allies to mind their own business, stop meddling in the politics of the region and keep invasions to a minimum of 1 per decade.

what about democracy extremists trying to enforce their doctrine on everyone else?

Im more worried about slipping over on dog [SNIP] and being injured than Im worried about 'extremist's'

What a non-issue.

I think that if Muslims come to the West they should conform to our way of life.
Theres no way I could live or want to live under Shiria law.
If they cant then they should go elsewhere or stay where they are.
If we went to their country we would have to conform to their ways. No questions or leeway given.
I didnt mean this as racist or any other 'ist' I just think this is reasonable.

I think the 3 or 4 comments above kind of some up all our feelings about this issue. As far as I know the west are more destructive than any other nation.

David Cameron is a proven hypocrite. He's a globalist who isn't interested in anything other than keeping his own money.

If you're going to keep posting Islamophobic garbage, ollncasino, at least make a vague effort at credibility.

I for one will denounce extremism and hold the banner for democracy because Cameron said so!




As a result, let it be known, I am against the US and Zionist regimes eminent take over of the world, and denounce all their minions in government across the globe!

Thank you Mr. Cameron for showing me the way!

Originally posted by Jameela
As a result, let it be known, I am against the US and Zionist regimes eminent take over of the world, and denounce all their minions in government across the globe!

Originally posted by petrus4
David Cameron is a proven hypocrite. He's a globalist who isn't interested in anything other than keeping his own money.

If you're going to keep posting Islamophobic garbage, ollncasino, at least make a vague effort at credibility.

Apparently, according to 'anti-Islamophobic' dogma even a British PM is not allowed to talk about the fact that while over 1 billion Muslims peacefully observe Islam, Islamic extremism exists.

Are you aware that Tony Blair stated that Western democracies have been "outspent, outmanoeuvred and out-strategised" by violent Islamist extremists?

The Telegraph

But perhaps he isn't allowed to say that either.

Thank you for trying to help me and British PMs to be as politically correct as you are.

I will E-mail both Cameron and Blair and tell them that you say they are not allowed to talk about Islamist extremism.

"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act"

G. Orwell

For most of us, it seems pretty clear cut- Democracy = good, Extremism = bad.

But I have two things to bring to the table for thought:

Look at bullying- you can tell kids how bad it is until you are blue in the face. But it has always existed and always will. Why? Because it is effective.
Because having a common target/enemy is an effective method of bonding people together in a group.

It is also effective publicity for attracting new members, because
-observers of the bullying will be drawn by their inherent "will to power" to the most powerful element in the environment,
-by the attraction of sharing this bonded comraderie,
- by the prospect of gaining the protection of this group against any threat to themself,
- and to ensure that they do not become a target for the group themself.

As the group grows, they gain territorial rights, mating rights and access to food rights.

This is true on high school campuses, it is true in the animal world, it is true in the human adult society!

Religion and culture are an important part of this process. When the members all share the same world view, values and morals, their communication and cooperation is enhanced, making them a formidable force. The more extreme their dual concepts are (their judgements of good and evil) the more their emotional reactions to stimuli will be strong, and their physical and mental force and alertness is increased together simultaneously for facing battle or challenge.

You can explain to people that this is not compassionate, not ethical.... for the ones who are targetted, or for the groups who are overcome and dominated.

But only a few will be influenced because only the affluent can afford to be ethicall.

Point two- Democracy.

I live in a country which has the highest muslim population in all of the EU countries (France).
The average rate of childbirth for the immigrants here from muslim countries is twice and in some cases, three times, that of the French people, the immigrants from other EU countries, and the immigrants from Asia.

Their population is growing so quickly that in some big cities it is at 50%.

As some of their young like to yell and proclaim in videos for us- "we are going to take over your country!" this is exactly what is happening.
You see, it is a Democracy. The majority rules. They vote.
Already a bill to require all school and public institutional meals to be Hallal is being considered and risks passing. As well as a bill which would allow non-citizens to vote! (immigrants can invite their family up from magrheb for the week to vote in France).

When you have many wives and a culture which encourages reproduction strongly, you can take over a democracy very quickly this way.

So a person who observes and/or takes part in such a take over- do you really think they are going to then embrace Democracy for their own system??? So someone else can come do to them what they did to get this territory?
You'd have to assume they are pretty stupid. As far as they are concerned, democracy is our Achilles Heel and they are taking full advantage of it, and I doubt they have much interest in "being us" (as much as we think everyone wants to).

reply to post by ollncasino


The problem with Cameron is -- he is a sell out , he`d sell his wife for the right amount , and to have a sell out of a PM getting comfortable with islam whilst we are fighting to keep islam and sharia law out of England is like a kick in the teeth to us working class "oiks". Muslims have more say in England than we do , in my city alone there is over 20 mosques , they even use old churches , how does THAT work ?

The sooner i see this traitor in the hague the better ........... we are in a crisis, tensions from all sides , financial problems , poverty on our streets , and he`s out there selling weapons to China and embracing islam. Do you know what islam is ?

He`s a liar too , a dirty two-faced venemous thatcherite scum bag who will say anything to "seal the deal" , on the trip you mention he said that muslims have killed more muslims than any other religion ....... as if christians arent the worst of them all.

These idiots with silver spoon syndrome are getting above themselves , Cameron thinks he is a "king maker" whatever that is

Cameron out .

Originally posted by SnakeEater
The problem with Cameron is -- he is a sell out , he`d sell his wife for the right amount , and to have a sell out of a PM getting comfortable with islam whilst we are fighting to keep islam and sharia law out of England is like a kick in the teeth to us working class "oiks". Muslims have more say in England than we do , in my city alone there is over 20 mosques , they even use old churches , how does THAT work ?

I'm no fan of Cameron either. But then, who is?

It is interesting that you say Cameron is effectively "kicking working class people in the teeth" by becoming too comfortable with Islam while another poster claims that Cameron is Islamaphobic.

Cameron would sell his own grandmother for a vote.

Look, I was making fun yesterday but today I will be serious and seriously reply to the OP. (Not that I really trust commenting on any thread you make because I do not ever trust your motives!)

That said, Muslims already know that democracy and democratic values can coexist with Islam. We have known this for quite some time! Some Muslim countries did have them or something similar, take Iran for instance. Iran before the west wanted the Shah had a democratic government, but the west did not like it, therefore they worked to remove it and instill the Shah.

For us, the problem is not democratic ideals, it is the Wests insistence on funding extremism and helping dictators for longer than we have lived. You do not seem to understand extremism and dictatorship in our countries is being bought and paid for by yours, because they work toward western ends in our countries, rather than for the good of the people.

What we desire is our own good...not yours, not any dictators, but OUR good.

In our day, it means supporting governments which are not going to sit back and allow the west their way in our lands, with our banks and our resources.. and being against puppet governments which would allow such things.

Do you not understand being willing to die before becoming a slave? Because that is what your modern day version of democracy is, our slavery to your governments. Trust me, THAT is not democracy.

I am all for democracy... democracy is having governance in accordance with the will of the people, the peoples voice...Your western version is not this.. and most would rather die than have your version.

Originally posted by ollncasino
Cameron would sell his own grandmother for a vote.

That is exactly the point, Olln. Cameron is a vulture. So quoting him on anything is pretty much pointless. The man says only what he thinks the person he is speaking to, wants to hear.

Originally posted by petrus4
That is exactly the point, Olln. Cameron is a vulture. So quoting him on anything is pretty much pointless. The man says only what he thinks the person he is speaking to, wants to hear.

Whether we like him or not, he is the British Prime Minister, so what he says does matter.

Having said that, I do agree with you. The poor man was a PR consultant and flip flops from one opinion to the next depending on what the latest pressure group/think tank/focus group has told him.

Let's face. All three of the main UK political party leaders are a washout and the UK Parliament is full of thieves, liars and cheats.

Much the same could be said for politicans the world over.

Not camerons biggest fan generally, but it seems a pretty reasonable speech.

Islam is not going anywhere. It makes sense to attempt to engage with moderate Muslims because in the end they are the only ones who can defeat the extremists in their midst. You cant defeat bad ideas with bombs.

Originally posted by Jameela
Muslims already know that democracy and democratic values can coexist with Islam.

We have known this for quite some time!

Some Muslim countries did have them or something similar, take Iran for instance. Iran before the west wanted the Shah had a democratic government, but the west did not like it, therefore they worked to remove it and instill the Shah.

You make a fair point in regards to Iran. The UK and the USA were involved in over-throwing the democratic leader of Iran. Mohammad Mosaddegh wished to nationalise the Abadan oil refinery which the UK's largest overseas asset and redistribute the profits from 84%/16% in the UK's favours to a 50%/50% split.

Wkipedia

On the other hand, democracy has always been somewhat precarious in Islamic nations.

Out of the 51 countries listed as being Islamic on this Wikipedia page, Wikipedia, 29 are listed as not free, 19 are listed as being partly free (flawed democracies i.e. Burma) and 3 as being free.


Turkey is sometimes trumpeted as an example of an Islamic democracy. Yet the Turkish army has had to stage coups 4 times since World War II to stop Islamic extremists taking power.

Turkish Weekly News

Originally posted by Jameela
For us, the problem is not democratic ideals, it is the Wests insistence on funding extremism and helping dictators for longer than we have lived. You do not seem to understand extremism and dictatorship in our countries is being bought and paid for by yours, because they work toward western ends in our countries, rather than for the good of the people.

Yes, well. There is a certain amount of truth in that. We only need to look at the recent events in Egypt and Libya to see that the Islamic extremists have been the great winners. Or the fact that the CIA funded the Taliban in Afghanistan.

On the other hand, violent extremists have always existed in Islam, so Islam itself cannot deny all responsibility and blame the West, as satisfying as it no doubt is to do so for Muslims.

It should also be remembered that many of the dicators supported by the West were nationalists who were opposed to Islamic extremism i.e. Iran, Egypt and Syria.

Now the West appears to be playing the 'great game' in the Middle East to try to keep the Russians and Chinese out. I have to wonder if Saudi money is also passing hands bribing Western politicans to effectively help Islamic radicals to seize power in Egypt, Syria and Libya.