Messages to the Builders in Symbol - The End is at Hand - REPENT

reply to post by wildtimes


You really look at rape and torture as equivalent to being preached to?

Did you grow up with abusive hellfire brimstone parents or something? Not trying to pry into your personal affairs, but from your description, it sounds like it could likely be a cause of your animosity towards the zealous religious types,

I'm in agreement with your entire statement, aside from the rape/torture of children being equivocal with preaching (even the worst of the worst of the worst of the medieval hellfire preaching)

I'm just searching, seeking, expanding, evolving, as are you, according to His will, God bless you

reply to post by Iason321

You really look at rape and torture as equivalent to being preached to?

Depends entirely on the individual. No hell-fire and brimstone for me, just on my knees in an Episcopal Church praying every Sunday for forgiveness of what I did wrong, what I failed to do right, and that I was unworthy to eat crumbs. That was all it took....
a matter of "sensitivity" to ridicule. I wasn't afraid of "hell", I was just confused as hell as to what I had done wrong, what I was expected to do that I failed to do, and why I wasn't worthy so much as to gather up the crumbs from under some table!

For a little girl who tries her best to be good...a perfectionist in the making...this was excruciating. And yes, torturing...like a person who is abused by a spouse for not knowing the rules and then punished for breaking them anyway.

Read the edit to my last for more info inserted while you were replying.

reply to post by wildtimes


So in other words your pride has gotten the best of you, and the acts of seeking forgiveness, admitting you've sinned and humbling yourself are therefore repulsive in nature to you....

Not judging, just calling it like I see it (and trying to understand what so reviles you about Christianity)

And I apologize for you being preached to about a hell you will never see and that doesn't even exist in the classical way of believing it exists, I can understand you harboring resentments from such an ordeal....

reply to post by Iason321

So in other words your pride has gotten the best of you, and the acts of seeking forgiveness, admitting you've sinned and humbling yourself are therefore repulsive in nature to you....

No. Pride has nothing to do with it.
Being told I was a useless piece of crap and seeking forgiveness for something I didn't do, or that I did but didn't know it was wrong...as a little child....a 4-5-6-7-8-9-10-11-12-13-14-15-16-year old....year after year, Sunday after Sunday, is what planted the seed of self-loathing. Self-loathing and shame are only two of the many, many damages that can cause drug use.

I'm plenty humble, Iason.

You can't erase my life experience or my nature or my understanding of the world just by telling me I'm prideful, the Serpent is entwined within me....Ugghhhh....but you are right, that is why I am against the preaching. It doesn't help anyone who isn't already damaged. When inflicted upon a person who is otherwise good and kind and honest and doing their best to be their best, it DAMAGES them. It erases everything they are trying to do to live up to expectations, to be nice and to be worthy of love.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
I answered/clarified my statement already. Sinful flesh cannot stand in His presence. It's immediately consumed with His Holy fire. satan has no flesh to consume in His presence.

Lol, so sin CAN exist in god's presence as long as you don't have flesh. And when we die a sinner, our spirits too can exist in his presence. There is no flesh to burn.

reply to post by wildtimes


Again, on behalf of rational Christians everywhere, I apologize for you being subject to such nonsense. Nobody should ever be called names or taught they're going to hell when learning about Christ or attending religious services....

I think I'm done sidetracking this thread now....my bad folks,

reply to post by Hydroman


That's what the man said.

He didn't say sin couldn't exist in the Fathers direct presence,

Only sinful flesh.

Originally posted by Iason321
Take drug addicts for example, I happen to know many firsthand, and I can testify to this being true - Psychiactry, counseling, the government, Suboxone, Methadone, all have tried to beat drug addiction, and all have utterly failed.

It's good you brought this up. I worked with drug addicts for over two years in a christian drug rehab center. I stayed with guys and helped them go through cold turkey, saw some of them go crazy. Almost every day they heard from the bible. Many become christian. As long as they stayed in the rehab center, they did fine. Once they left, often times they would get back in to drugs and OD because they couldn't do the same amount of drug that they were doing before they entered the rehab center.

Some of these guys, after becoming christians, preached the word to others. Then, when they left the center, back to drugs they go. Now, not all of them were like that. But many were.

Overcoming drugs, when not in a controlled environment, is done by will power. I've heard of atheists overcoming drugs. I've even spoke to some.

Originally posted by Iason321
That's what the man said.

He didn't say sin couldn't exist in the Fathers direct presence,

Only sinful flesh.

Well, that whole conversation began with this quote:

NOTurTypical
And that's the problem, we are human, we are not Just, we are not righteous and Holy. God is. Sin cannot be in His presence. Socrates writing to Plato understood this dilemma of a Holy and Just God forgiving sins without penalty:

"It may be that the deity can forgive sins, but I do not see how."

The second God gives a wink and nod to sin He violated perfect Justice and Holiness. He cannot deny Himself.

Go back to page 6 and see how the conversation went.

reply to post by Hydroman


They weren't true believers, that's why.

The same thing happened to me, once I was released I went from being Jesus happy to old rugged atheist within a few weeks,

All that happened to me, and others who this happened to, was that we (they) succumbed to the world, once again. They lacked the faith, knowledge, and spiritual insight to stand firm and rugged in Christ in a brutal world that tells you He's nothing but a myth.

Originally posted by Iason321
They weren't true believers, that's why.

The same thing happened to me, once I was released I went from being Jesus happy to old rugged atheist within a few weeks,

All that happened to me, and others who this happened to, was that we (they) succumbed to the world, once again. They lacked the faith, knowledge, and spiritual insight to stand firm and rugged in Christ in a brutal world that tells you He's nothing but a myth.

Again, no true Scotsman. I wonder why the holy spirit didn't let the missionaries or other christians know that these guys were faking it? The same thing is said about me, that I wasn't a true christian. I wish someone would have told me that, or that the holy spirit would have told someone to notify me, so that I wouldn't have risked my life walking those streets speaking to drug addicts. Jesus Christ. I could have just stayed home and started my education earlier.

reply to post by Hydroman


They weren't faking it at the time,

They were convicted and believers, then when they were released back into the harsh cold world, they succumbed to the deception that's pumped down our societys throat 24/7

Originally posted by Iason321
They weren't faking it at the time,

They were convicted and believers, then when they were released back into the harsh cold world, they succumbed to the deception that's pumped down our societys throat 24/7

First you said they weren't true believers, then you said they were believers who succumbed to deception??

reply to post by Iason321

Again, on behalf of rational Christians everywhere, I apologize for you being subject to such nonsense. Nobody should ever be called names or taught they're going to hell when learning about Christ or attending religious services....

And every Catholic or Protestant child who recites the same prayer every Sunday is under that assault....
thus, my problem with ORGANIZED CHRISTIANITY based on the Bible.

Anyway, so basically what I've learned from you guys is that sin CAN exist in the presence of god, as long as it isn't in a flesh body. That's how Satan can be in god's presence. So, when I die, can I be in his presence since I won't be in a flesh body?

Originally posted by wildtimes
And every Catholic or Protestant child who recites the same prayer every Sunday is under that assault....
thus, my problem with ORGANIZED CHRISTIANITY based on the Bible.

I think most people become saved and christian because they are afraid of the consequences for not doing so.

When I was a christian, I loved god, and wanted to live my life for him. He was almost all I thought about. Now, it all just seems so silly to me.

reply to post by Hydroman

I think most people become saved and christian because they are afraid of the consequences for not doing so.

Exactly. That is why I think of it as spiritual abuse, if not downright TERRORISM.
Fear is not a good way to get people to behave in a certain way.

reply to post by Hydroman


The comforter has departed from you and you've lost faith, that's why there is a gleaming difference between when you were zealous and now.

You're going to be forgiven and make it to paradise, that I'm sure.....

If the rapture happens soon though, and your in your state of unbelief, you may be left behind (cue dramatic music)

Also, remember, you reap what you sow. So if you're sinning uninhibited, you're probably gonna sow quite a few crappy seeds, and reap a pretty nasty harvest,

Hydroman, your faith and ability to believe hasn't gone from you permanently, it's only been obscured by the world we live in, which is run by entities with an evil agenda, and has society as a mass believing in lies and deception (look how many people believe in ET beings and ghosts and boogiemen and supernatural entities, yet lack belief in a Creator, does that even make sense?)

Originally posted by wildtimes
Exactly. That is why I think of it as spiritual abuse, if not downright TERRORISM.
Fear is not a good way to get people to behave in a certain way.

This is one reason why Pascal's wager does not work. They say, "If I'm right, look at what I've gained. But, if I'm wrong, I've lost nothing. Now if I am right, look at what might happen...."

To which I respond, "Should I believe in your god out of fear, or believe in him just in case? Is that what he wants of me?" and then, "If you are wrong, there COULD be consequences. Allah could be god..."

Originally posted by Iason321
The comforter has departed from you and you've lost faith, that's why there is a gleaming difference between when you were zealous and now.

You're going to be forgiven and make it to paradise, that I'm sure.....

Hmmm, not all christians agree with you on that. And, I could care less about it. I don't want to be in a paradise with a being who allows people to be tortured forever because they couldn't find the faith to believe a certain way. That is ridiculous.

Originally posted by Iason321
If the rapture happens soon though, and your in your state of unbelief, you may be left behind (cue dramatic music)

Fine with me.

Originally posted by Iason321
Also, remember, you reap what you sow. So if you're sinning uninhibited, you're probably gonna sow quite a few crappy seeds, and reap a pretty nasty harvest,

Everything's been pretty awesome so far...

Originally posted by Iason321
Hydroman, your faith and ability to believe hasn't gone from you permanently, it's only been obscured by the world we live in, which is run by entities with an evil agenda, and has society as a mass believing in lies and deception (look how many people believe in ET beings and ghosts and boogiemen and supernatural entities, yet lack belief in a Creator, does that even make sense?)

Well, they may believe in those things because they've interacted with them, or think they've interacted with them. Maybe they can't say the same about a creator?