Messages to the Builders in Symbol - The End is at Hand - REPENT

Originally posted by Hydroman

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
Denials of existence are by default affirmations of the inverse. The two are inseparable. When you are denying God, what are you affirming in the inverse? If your claim cannot sustain the "inversion principle" it cannot be true.

Why am I affirming something? You make the claim that gods exist, and I respond by saying, "I do no believe you." The reason for this is because I don't think there's enough concrete evidence for it. It's the same reason I don't believe in other gods. If that doesn't make me an atheist, what does it make me?

Agnostic and intellectually honest. Atheist is an indefensible position logically without being God Himself, then it would self-refute.

Originally posted by Hydroman

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
We all deserve it, you have to come up with something better than that.

I accept my fate. No innocent person should take my place. I did the crime, I pay for it forever. That is just isn't it? If so, what's the problem?

edit on 15-4-2012 by Hydroman because: (no reason given)

Why on earth would you want to pay for it when the debt was already paid for you? Thats suicide. All you have to do is reach out and take Yeshua's hand. Even if you do not know or believe it right now, take a leap of faith and put yourself on the line, that is what an act of faith is...when you do not know for sure but you're willing to be open minded and go down the rabbit hole.

The debt has already been paid 2000 years ago and it was done without your consent long before you were born and it was Yeshua's right to do and of his own will and accord because he saw everyone of us before they nailed him to that tree and he knew what was coming and he chose to do it despite the horrors he knew he was going to face. Thats what real love is, when someone loves you enough to rescue you inspite of knowing the torture and death he was going to face.

You will never find a greater love than that. You can search your whole life and never will you find someone else that would die for you and do it without meeting you for the first time.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
Why on earth would you want to pay for it when the debt was already paid for you? Thats suicide. All you have to do is reach out and take Yeshua's hand. Even if you do not know or believe it right now, take a leap of faith and put yourself on the line, that is what an act of faith is...when you do not know for sure but you're willing to be open minded and go down the rabbit hole.

I did take that leap of faith, for many years. I am now an agnostic, intellectually honest person.

Besides, I deserve to be tortured forever. It is just. Right guys? It being just, I accept my fate.

Doesn't it make perfect sense? That a god would require you to believe in him via faith (regardless of all the other beliefs out there), and when you couldn't do it, you get punished forever?

Your god created the rules himself. Then he created a loophole to get you out of it. If you don't go for the loophole, you get punished forever. And, he knew about all of this before he even created anything. It's really silly.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
You will never find a greater love than that. You can search your whole life and never will you find someone else that would die for you and do it without meeting you for the first time.

I think you're completely wrong about that. Did you know firefighters die trying to save people they don't know? What about police officers? Soldiers? I could go on...

reply to post by Hydroman

I did take that leap of faith, for many years. I am now an agnostic, intellectually honest person.

We already went over this, you didn't have the Biblical model of faith, but the Hellenistic typology of "hope" or in today's vernacular a "wish upon a star".

Besides, I deserve to be tortured forever. It is just. Right guys? It being just, I accept my fate.

You're right, it is just. But it doesn't have to be. Christ took that punishment for you. We all "deserve" it, all of us, myself included. God traded His Son for this son, IMHO He got seriously ripped off.

But then again, love has no price tag.

Originally posted by Hydroman

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
You will never find a greater love than that. You can search your whole life and never will you find someone else that would die for you and do it without meeting you for the first time.

I think you're completely wrong about that. Did you know firefighters die trying to save people they don't know? What about police officers? Soldiers? I could go on...

I am a veteran.

That's not love, that's an unfortunate consequence of a paycheck.

Very poor example.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
We already went over this, you didn't have the Biblical model of faith, but the Hellenistic typology of "hope" or in today's vernacular a "wish upon a star".

Sure, I was no true Scotsman. Not a true christian, in other words. That's fine.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
You're right, it is just. But it doesn't have to be. Christ took that punishment for you. We all "deserve" it, all of us, myself included. God traded His Son for this son, IMHO He got seriously ripped off.

What do you mean it doesn't have to be just? It IS just. There's no "it doesn't have to be". Is that what god says? Does he say, "This punishment for you is just, but it doesn't have to be." That doesn't make any sense. It is either just, or it isn't. It can't be both.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
I am a veteran.

That's not love, that's an unfortunate consequence of a paycheck.

Very poor example.

Yet, it was someone dying for someone else they did not know. That was the point. Besides, how do you know it has never been done out of love for others just because you didn't do it out of love?

If your god wanted me to live with him, why doesn't he just let me live with him? Why go through with creating loopholes to the rules he made to fix it so that people could live with him? Why not accept us as we are? Why not wash our sins away without us asking? Why not forgive us without us asking? Why not love us unconditionally as you say he does? Apparently, there are conditions....

reply to post by Hydroman

Your god created the rules himself. Then he created a loophole to get you out of it. If you don't go for the loophole, you get punished forever. And, he knew about all of this before he even created anything. It's really silly.

Being omniscient He knew what the downfall was of creating creatures in His image and giving them sovereignty. When you give the massive responsibly of choice, the outcome of that is some will choose the negative. One thing God never had in eternity past, something that chose to love Him back.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
Being omniscient He knew what the downfall was of creating creatures in His image and giving them sovereignty. When you give the massive responsibly of choice, the outcome of that is some will choose the negative. One thing God never had in eternity past, something that chose to love Him back.

For an omnipotent being, what does that matter? Why does he need or want that? Besides, your god wants us to choose him based on ancient texts. How does that make any sense? Why not believe in all gods and follow them?

Also, I've not seen you address my question on the ancient texts. If god has allowed changes to be made, which is provable, how do you know he hasn't allowed it since the beginning? How do you know any of it is accurate from the beginning? Especially since it was passed down orally for hundreds, maybe thousands of years before written language developed.

Originally posted by Hydroman

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
I am a veteran.

That's not love, that's an unfortunate consequence of a paycheck.

Very poor example.

Yet, it was someone dying for someone else they did not know. That was the point. Besides, how do you know it has never been done out of love for others just because you didn't do it out of love?

Re-think that, I'm obviously not dead friend. You're missing the point. Not 1 soldier unless they want to commit suicide wakes up planning to die. In battle military indoctrination takes over, in civil service honor takes over, but none of your examples is what Christ did. Choosing to come here as a Man to die for the specific purpose of saving those who couldn't save themselves. It's love out of pity and mercy. So that we could meet and fellowship with His Father and Him for eternity.

It's the purpose behind the act. And Christ never said it had never been done before, He said it's the greatest expression of love there is. When we do it God is pleased because we are acting like Him being created in His image and likeness.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
Re-think that, I'm obviously not dead friend. You're missing the point. Not 1 soldier unless they want to commit suicide wakes up planning to die. In battle military indoctrination takes over, in civil service honor takes over, but none of your examples is what Christ did. Choosing to come here as a Man to die for the specific purpose of saving those who couldn't save themselves. It's love out of pity and mercy. So that we could meet and fellowship with His Father and Him for eternity.

It's the purpose behind the act. And Christ never said it had never been done before, He said it's the greatest expression of love there is. When we do it God is pleased because we are acting like Him being created in His image and likeness.

So it was a suicide mission?

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
Re-think that, I'm obviously not dead friend.

Lol, what I meant was you claimed that these other guys did it for a paycheck. But, IMO, that's what you did your service for, a paycheck. How do you know that other people don't do it out of love for their fellow man? How do you know that other people haven't laid down their life for their fellow man, someone they don't know?

Originally posted by Hydroman

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
Being omniscient He knew what the downfall was of creating creatures in His image and giving them sovereignty. When you give the massive responsibly of choice, the outcome of that is some will choose the negative. One thing God never had in eternity past, something that chose to love Him back.

For an omnipotent being, what does that matter? Why does he need or want that? Besides, your god wants us to choose him based on ancient texts. How does that make any sense? Why not believe in all gods and follow them?

Also, I've not seen you address my question on the ancient texts. If god has allowed changes to be made, which is provable, how do you know he hasn't allowed it since the beginning? How do you know any of it is accurate from the beginning? Especially since it was passed down orally for hundreds, maybe thousands of years before written language developed.

What's the cliche they say all the time about rich people and buying them a gift? If you study the Hebrew Mezzeroth before it was corrupted at Babylon into the Zodiac the entire gospel is spelled out in the constellations if you know their Hebrew names and what they mean from the brightest star to the least bright. That's how God taught Adam the plan of redemption long before the written text. All men did at night was lay on their roofs and tell the gospel to their families..

Originally posted by Hydroman

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
Re-think that, I'm obviously not dead friend.

Lol, what I meant was you claimed that these other guys did it for a paycheck. But, IMO, that's what you did your service for, a paycheck. How do you know that other people don't do it out of love for their fellow man? How do you know that other people haven't laid down their life for their fellow man, someone they don't know?

They do!

Didn't you read the last part of my post?

reply to post by Hydroman

So it was a suicide mission?

Yes. He left the throne knowing exactly what He was coming here for. He was born to die.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
What's the cliche they say all the time about rich people and buying them a gift? If you study the Hebrew Mezzeroth before it was corrupted at Babylon into the Zodiac the entire gospel is spelled out in the constellations if you know their Hebrew names and what they mean from the brightest star to the least bright. That's how God taught Adam the plan of redemption long before the written text. All men did at night was lay on their roofs and tell the gospel to their families..

Or, it is how they remembered the signs in the sky. They created stories so that when certain signs were in the sky they knew it was almost time to plant, or time to harvest. Those were important things for them to know in those days.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
Yes. He left the throne knowing exactly what He was coming here for. He was born to die.

Isn't suicide a sin?

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
They do!

Didn't you read the last part of my post?

My fault. It was Lonewolf that said you would never see that.