Messages to the Builders in Symbol - The End is at Hand - REPENT

Originally posted by NeverSleepingEyes

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by Destinyone
Repent for what.....

Des

Repent means " change your mind". The context here is turn to God, change your mind about Him and what He says about your condition and accept His gift of grace through the blood of the cross.

See your sin and accept Christ.

accept Christ? thanks but no thanks
what a silly idea.

is it okay if i accept "reason" instead?

Depends who defines your word "reason". I suggest accepting both equally.

Originally posted by Hydroman

Originally posted by Hydroman

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
Then you can't be saved.

Saved from what exactly?

I repeat, saved from what?

Sorry, missed it earlier.

Saved from conscious eternal separation from Him and His Kingdom in Hell.

(Sheol, Hades, Gehenna, Tartarus, Lake of Fire, Furnace of Fire, Torments, Outer Darkness, et cetra et cetra, take your pick)

reply to post by wildtimes

Because that's what you mean when you (and others) say "REPENT"!

STOP!

Not me, I try to correct that false idea of Biblical repentance whenever I hear anyone saying it, even Christians, and direct them to the Biblical definition of it:

"metanoeō"


1) to change one's mind, i.e. to repent

2) to change one's mind for better, heartily to amend with abhorrence of one's past sins.

Repent

Depends who defines your word "reason". I suggest accepting both equally.

this is discursive nonsense. one doesn't even have to come up with definitions of "reason" to understand it would be a pretty stupid thing to do to accept "christ" to be equal to reason.

christ is a fairy tale
reason is a verifiable factor of mental capacity

no equality here for me

but then again i am a militant atheist.
by that i mean: if you wanna destroy your mental abilities by bringing in bull# stories that were written by people in order to push agendas, well, that's fine, go ahead.
It also means that if someone dares to start a discourse on his personal imaginary friend, i urge that person to leave my house as i don't tolerate such crap in the place where i set the rules
i'm in a consulting business: i refuse to work for christian organizations. that's how principal and militant i prefer to be.
I won't rest my efforts until those who belief refrain from pushing their mental disease into the public sphere (as is still the case over here). Once again: if you wanna whisper against the ceiling please do so, in your place. Just stop spreading the salvation or repent crap. i don't need it, most people don't need it. it's just a pile of controlling crap

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

And Biblical repentance means that when the thoughts are changed the feelings and behavior are a natural result acted out in practice of the change in thought.

So why are you trying to discredit 'behavior modification' if it starts with changing the behavior in order to change the thoughts and feelings?

That's the opposite of Biblical repentance. Actions are the manifestation of thoughts and feelings. thos are the product of such, not the root of such. Example:

If I think it's not a sin to steal, I will steal and feel no remorse. If I repent of that thought, and now feel it's a sin to steal I won't act out and do that. In reference to Christ, I think and feel that I'm not a sinner and Christ didn't die for my sins, the call to "repent" is to think differently about my condition (sinner) and to think differently about Christ dying for my sins.

That's repentance according to the Bible. To think differently about X. When one thinks differently about X, then the outward manifestation will be in accordance with X, no longer Y.

reply to post by NeverSleepingEyes


And you can believe what you will. But why should I trade my faith for your faith, or are you claiming to have the attributes of God?

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

If a person doesn't first change their mind about something, there actions will be changed for a season, but they will revert back to the behavior they feel is "right" in their own head. Changing behavior without first thinking you're wrong and changing your mind is just and exercise in "behavior modification", and any Psychologist will tell you that has no lasting effects on a person.

*raises hand* AHEM....
OI!!! What?
Psychotherapist here!!

It certainly CAN and DOES have lasting effects on a person IF THEY FULLY EMBRACE IT. The trick is that the client has to realize that Thoughts, Feelings, and Actions all affect one another.

Going through the motions is not enough. One has to realize that the roots of the Actions are thoughts and feelings, and in order to change those thoughts and feelings, one must also change the action. The same is true of the others -- all are equally affected by the other two.

It's a difficult process, and it takes a long time...THAT is why most people fail at it. But any person who willingly sticks it out DOES find that their thoughts and feelings change also.

It's called Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, and it works. The PROBLEM is that most people don't really want to change, unless their lives are so unbearable that their poor coping skills no longer work for them. When a person becomes so despondent that they are literally suffocating in their pain, they can CHOOSE to take different actions.

Wow. I...just......What?? WHAT??!!

wow

How inappropriate. How about you stick to talking about Christ, and let seasoned psychotherapists do the talking for the different types of therapies?
But this is neither the forum nor the thread for such.

Then you can't be saved.

And THIS? Really??
horse hooey.

edit on 15-4-2012 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)

Lol... I love it when the "experts" get all uppity with their degrees and titles. You just said pretty much the exact same thing! Modifying the behavior alone will not work, right? Right. There has to be a mental/emotional change too, right? Right.

Oh, wait... I forgot. You're a science person and they're a religious person. You're supposed to argue, even when you agree. K, carry on then!

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by NeverSleepingEyes

 

And you can believe what you will. But why should I trade my faith for your faith, or are you claiming to have the attributes of God?

i didn't ask anyone to trade anything for anything else, did i?
all i ask if for the people with the imaginary friend to stop pretending they are in the know and to keep their silly activities out of the public arena.

even for a believer this can't be too hard to understand
so please stop interpreting my posts in a way that violates the intentions of those posts just to push your agenda.

for your information: I don't have a faith. None. don't call atheism a faith, that's just plain stupid and is intented to give a false representation of the situation

time for me to sleep now

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
Saved from conscious eternal separation from Him and His Kingdom in Hell.

(Sheol, Hades, Gehenna, Tartarus, Lake of Fire, Furnace of Fire, Torments, Outer Darkness, et cetra et cetra, take your pick)

But I deserve this. Why not accept it? I did the crime, I do the time. I am to be burned like the garbage at Gehenna, because that is what I am to your god, garbage. That is, unless I can muster the faith to believe in him....then it's all cool.

reply to post by NeverSleepingEyes

i didn't ask anyone to trade anything for anything else, did i?
all i ask if for the people with the imaginary friend to stop pretending they are in the know and to keep their silly activities out of the public arena.

Atheism is a faith system, you cannot know for a fact God doesn't exist unless you are in all places in the universe at the same time (omnipresence) or you know everything about everything (omniscience) and can say for fact God is non-existent.

So, why should I leave my belief system to come to yours, or where did you get the attributes of the God of the Bible?

The only way I can claim as fact that there is no gold in China is to be everywhere at once in China to claim there is no gold there. BUT, for me to know there is gold in China I just need to be in one place and see it once.

Your belief system takes the attributes of God Himself, and infinitely more faith than my belief system does. I only need 1 piece of evidence to believe in mine, yours is logically absurd, unless you are God yourself then your claim would be self-refuting.

reply to post by NeverSleepingEyes

for your information: I don't have a faith. None. don't call atheism a faith, that's just plain stupid and is intented to give a false representation of the situation.

Lets not play dumb shall we? You guys purposely word your faith in the negative to shield yourself from proving it true. It's deceptive, that claim may work for a child, it won't fly here. If you want to continue to play me for a fool I can purposely word my position in the negative to shield myself as well.

"I don't have faith that God is non-existant."

If you complain about my use of a double-negative I can word it in Greek where double negatives are used legitimately for emphasis.

Originally posted by Hydroman

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
Saved from conscious eternal separation from Him and His Kingdom in Hell.

(Sheol, Hades, Gehenna, Tartarus, Lake of Fire, Furnace of Fire, Torments, Outer Darkness, et cetra et cetra, take your pick)

But I deserve this. Why not accept it? I did the crime, I do the time. I am to be burned like the garbage at Gehenna, because that is what I am to your god, garbage. That is, unless I can muster the faith to believe in him....then it's all cool.

We all deserve it, you have to come up with something better than that.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
We all deserve it, you have to come up with something better than that.

I accept my fate. No innocent person should take my place. I did the crime, I pay for it forever. That is just isn't it? If so, what's the problem?

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Atheism is a faith system, you cannot know for a fact God doesn't exist unless you are in all places in the universe at the same time (omnipresence) or you know everything about everything (omniscience) and can say for fact God is non-existent.

So, why should I leave my belief system to come to yours, or where did you get the attributes of the God of the Bible?

Nope, not a faith system. This has been explained to you countless times, I'm sure of it. Saying that I don't believe your claim simply means I don't believe it. Who knows, you could be right. I don't know what the truth is for sure, but I don't believe your claim that gods exist. That is all. No faith required, I just don't believe it.

With faith, you say that you know your god exists. I reject that claim. I don't believe it. Again, I don't know for sure if you're right, you might be. I just don't believe it.

reply to post by Hydroman

Saying that I don't believe your claim simply means I don't believe it. Who knows, you could be right. I don't know what the truth is for sure, but I don't believe your claim that gods exist.

"Believe/not believe" is faith language.

Do you "know" then? If so, please prove your positive claim. Agnostics are at least intellectually honest.

reply to post by Hydroman

With faith, you say that you know your god exists. I reject that claim. I don't believe it. Again, I don't know for sure if you're right, you might be. I just don't believe it.

Denials of existence are by default affirmations of the inverse. The two are inseparable. When you are denying God, what are you affirming in the inverse? If your claim cannot sustain the "inversion principle" it cannot be true.

This is so ridiculous. There is a god, there isnt a god. This is what bothers me most. "You need to believe so you may save your immortal soul". Why must there be some all knowing being to give answers and guide us. the constant bickering will never get any of us any closer to the "answer". Hell, I dont think any of us will truly know till we pass. So, if it is a god who needs my admission of his existence, and asking for forgivness or what ever the toll is to enter "heaven" or "nirvana" or whatever it is that waits for us, well that seems pretty petty to me and I want nothin to do with it.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Hydroman

 

Saying that I don't believe your claim simply means I don't believe it. Who knows, you could be right. I don't know what the truth is for sure, but I don't believe your claim that gods exist.

"Believe/not believe" is faith language.

Do you "know" then? If so, please prove your positive claim. Agnostics are at least intellectually honest.

If I don't believe something, how is that faith language? Please explain. Define faith.

Also, I explained that I do not know. That's why I'm an agnostic atheist. I don't know if gods exist, but I don't believe they do.

Originally posted by Hydroman

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Hydroman

 

Saying that I don't believe your claim simply means I don't believe it. Who knows, you could be right. I don't know what the truth is for sure, but I don't believe your claim that gods exist.

"Believe/not believe" is faith language.

Do you "know" then? If so, please prove your positive claim. Agnostics are at least intellectually honest.

If I don't believe something, how is that faith language? Please explain. Define faith.

Also, I explained that I do not know. That's why I'm an agnostic atheist. I don't know if gods exist, but I don't believe they do.

5:30 mark

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
Denials of existence are by default affirmations of the inverse. The two are inseparable. When you are denying God, what are you affirming in the inverse? If your claim cannot sustain the "inversion principle" it cannot be true.

Why am I affirming something? You make the claim that gods exist, and I respond by saying, "I do no believe you." The reason for this is because I don't think there's enough concrete evidence for it. It's the same reason I don't believe in other gods. If that doesn't make me an atheist, what does it make me?