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Hypothetical questions for engineering types

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posted on Apr, 14 2012 @ 03:34 AM
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Ok so I was reading in another thread on this site a description of a "different" way to induce electrolysis of water through capacitance and high voltage rather than high current as is currently used.


If we do an experiment where we us simply 2 Plates One of which has a thin ceramic layer covering the Face exposed to a thin film of Water between the plates and apply a high voltage across the plates (forming a Capacitor whose Dialectic consists of both a thin film of Water and a thin Ceramic media) Electrolysis is produced at a far, far, higher rate than using electrodes and high Current in the conventional method used at present on Earth.


Is this possible or plausible? Would it create the results that this guy is asserting it will create?
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posted on Apr, 14 2012 @ 03:53 AM
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Try it. It is not hard. Use stainless steel for the plates. I have also seen two coils, one inside the other. The idea being to increase the surface area of the electricity / water interface.

AS an aside, I have seen opinions that "it takes energy to split the H and O apart so it is a waste of time.

Plainly this is wrong. Solar panels will produce H2 and O2 all day long at almost zero cost. It is not hard!

We could replace some other fuels easily, but then where is the profit in that.

Just think of the Australian Outback full of solar panels making clean fuel for tomorrow.

P



posted on Apr, 14 2012 @ 04:17 AM
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Yes I am familiar with the conventional way to electrolyze hydroxy gas however this is not what I'm asking about. what I am asking about is specifically what is quoted in the OP and whether that will actually work.

Basically I want to know if there is a way to use capacitance and high voltage rather than high current to electrolyze hydrogen. Possibly sidestepping some of the huge power consumption issues involved in conventional electrolysis.



posted on Apr, 14 2012 @ 04:23 AM
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Originally posted by roguetechie
Yes I am familiar with the conventional way to electrolyze hydroxy gas however this is not what I'm asking about. what I am asking about is specifically what is quoted in the OP and whether that will actually work.

Basically I want to know if there is a way to use capacitance and high voltage rather than high current to electrolyze hydrogen. Possibly sidestepping some of the huge power consumption issues involved in conventional electrolysis.



Yes I know what you asked


My answer was to try it. It is just a simple experiment! By and by, it takes a definable quantity of energy to split a molecular bond using electricity. I don't think that will change.

You may wish to Google "Molecular splitting using high frequency sound waves." Some interesting research is being conducted.

P


P



posted on Apr, 14 2012 @ 04:29 AM
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Well, ceramic would insulate the second plate from the waterfilm.
Water would act as a dielectric in the condensator. Because water´s permittivity is a function of temp. and frequency, you would get a very unstable common electrolyt condensator.



posted on Apr, 14 2012 @ 05:40 AM
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Voltage is the pressure of the electron flow.

Current is the amount of electrons flowing.

Higher voltage allows the flow across larger gaps between electrodes

But current is what does the work.. you need higher current flow to break the bonds between hydrogen and oxygen.

So the idea will not work by increasing voltage and reducing current.

i am not a engineer just a industrial electrician



posted on Apr, 14 2012 @ 06:56 AM
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reply to post by roguetechie
 


It seems to me that high voltage only causes sparks between the conductive plates. I don't really see how this would work, as you need the current to do the actual electrolysis (as said above).



posted on Apr, 14 2012 @ 08:40 AM
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Originally posted by pheonix358
Try it. It is not hard. Use stainless steel for the plates. I have also seen two coils, one inside the other. The idea being to increase the surface area of the electricity / water interface.

AS an aside, I have seen opinions that "it takes energy to split the H and O apart so it is a waste of time.

Plainly this is wrong. Solar panels will produce H2 and O2 all day long at almost zero cost. It is not hard!

We could replace some other fuels easily, but then where is the profit in that.

Just think of the Australian Outback full of solar panels making clean fuel for tomorrow.

No, it's not hard at all. I am running an HHO generator on my Chevy Van right now. Two quart Mason jars with plastic, reinforced lids, each containing three stainless steel bolts suspended into the jars. One Negative, two Positives. Each is controlled by a 50 Amp toggle switch, and regulated through a 50 Amp circuit breaker, all 10 gauge automotive wire. The catalyst, or electrolyzer is Potassium-Hydroxide-KOH-Potash. Been running it for more than two years now. Saves us over $250 a month is gas on most months. This is starting to catch on too, I saw a semi going down the street with what looked like a jar type HHO reactor in front of the grille.
The only problem I seem to be having is the cheap made in China switches. You just cannot buy a Balkamp switch anymore.



posted on Apr, 14 2012 @ 09:27 AM
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reply to post by roguetechie
 


Won't work at all. You can use water as a capacitor dielectric, if it's really pure.

It all comes down to breaking that hydrogen bond, you have to put in the minimum energy to get that done.



posted on Apr, 14 2012 @ 09:29 AM
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Originally posted by pheonix358

AS an aside, I have seen opinions that "it takes energy to split the H and O apart so it is a waste of time.

Plainly this is wrong. Solar panels will produce H2 and O2 all day long at almost zero cost.


Cost of the power negating the process taking power to do is one of the oddest bits of reasoning I've seen on ATS in a while, and that's saying something.



posted on Apr, 14 2012 @ 12:33 PM
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Thanks you guys,

See I am a starving college student (mechanical engineering but still doing my prerequisite math classes and other prereq's) and I just don't have the time or inclination to do an experiment that isn't going to work. So you have saved me the time, energy, and expense of doing this experiment.



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