The Solar Power Scam

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posted on Apr, 16 2012 @ 12:43 AM
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In Victoria the feed in tariff rate was up to 60 cents per kilowatt hour fed back into the grid, but that program has now been closed, but those who signed up for it are still guaranteed to get that rate until 2024. The rate with a new program is 25 cents per kilowatt hour fed back into the grid. As far as I know, this was done because solar panels are getting cheaper and to save money. Both $0.60/kwh and $0.25/kwh are, as far as I know much higher than or slightly higher than the retail cost of electricity respectively. Both are much higher than the wholesale cost of electricity (in other words, you get to sell at retail prices essentially as a wholesaler - a bargain) so it's more than fair if you have installed solar panels and are receiving a feed-in tariff.
edit on 16/4/12 by C0bzz because: (no reason given)





Disconnect from the grid entirely.

Use your solar panels off grid.

For more power at night use a 11.8 KW quiet diesel generator made by Kubota.

- SQ-1120 model -

Right except anything oil based is extremely uneconomic compared to the grid in practically all places. I'd rather get my electricity from coal mined in my own country over oil imported from some unstable country. Or better yet in the future (hopefully) from coal seam gas with CCS, IGCC with CCS, cogeneration from biomass, nuclear reactors, solar panels, and wind turbines.
edit on 16/4/12 by C0bzz because: (no reason given)
edit on 16/4/12 by C0bzz because: (no reason given)
edit on 16/4/12 by C0bzz because: (no reason given)




posted on Apr, 16 2012 @ 05:53 AM
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reply to post by TheRedneck
 


Now don't take this the wrong way but, based on the figures you've quoted, you're using at least 4 times as much electrical energy as my humble abode and, if that's a typical demand in your part of the world, it's not surprising that you have a bit of an energy crisis in terms of costs and supply going on. The sort of peak demand you quoted would blow my service fuse and is typical of small factories that require CT metering because they don't make whole-current meters that large (100A is the norm here on a 415/240 system and many dwellings have just a single phase 60A max service = 14kW max).

That diversified maximum demand I quoted is a very rubbery figure determined by counting the number of customers on a distribution substation's domestic distributor (normally 400A max 415V) and using thermal maximum demand recorders at the peak time of the year which is a May-June cold dark wintery evening when everyone is cooking dinner and warming their homes up (say 6-7PM). That peak demand is divided by the number of customers on the distributor to come up with the peak I quoted of 3-5kW per dwelling on average and the figure is very sensitive to many socio-geographic factors with less affluent communities using the least and the 'silvertail' communities managing 5kW or even more. But - that's the peak of the entire day and lasts only 1-2 hours. I average under 20kWh/day in summer and around 25kWh/day in winter (I use a woodheater and occasionally a thermostat controlled panel heater for some background warmth at the far end of the house).

The reason for the peak occuring in May and not July-August when it's coldest is that most people haven't got their firewood or other cold weather mitigation alternatives ready for the first cold snap so they drag that old electric monster heater out of the garage for a quick solution till they get organized.

I know people who live in the bush where grid supply is not an option so they've spent $60000-$100000 installing stand-alone solar systems (deep cycle batteries). They've learnt to be very frugal with their electrical usage, using bottled gas for cooking (trucked in), solar water heating, high efficiency appliances and they get by quite well without spas, heated swimming pools, aircon etc. We are blessed with a warm temperate climate and lots of sunshine here though which makes modest grid-connected solar installations attractive and cost-effective which isn't the case for all parts of the planet.

The DC transmission thing: there's a point, in terms of distance and underwater/overhead construction, where DC becomes more attractive than AC but I'm talking about major EHV transmission, not distribution. The DC link here was, and maybe still is, the longest one ever constructed and an AC link over the distance was completely infeasible/impractical to even attempt (think about the capacitance of a 300km+ submarine cable). That cable carries around 1500A at 400kV (600MW) on a single conductor with inverter stations at each end capable of turning around in a matter of minutes. It cost near a $billion to construct initially.



posted on Apr, 16 2012 @ 10:24 AM
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reply to post by Pilgrum

When I was typing that post up, I was thinking about the older homes in this area that still use 100A services (a few are still 60A, but they're getting rare). So no, not taking anything wrong; I even posted that if one were to drop the power requirements, the cost would drop considerably.

I tend to over-design... that means two things: First, that the cost is a bit higher initially, and second, that what I design never stops working. My concern over the peak power requirements is in the electronics used to transform the DC into AC power. This is a typically hot process anyway (the power ratings are based more on cooling ability for the components than anything else) and the heat produced by a sudden short will overheat components. The question is how much and for how long. Most equipment has some measure of resilience to overload, but continued overloads are not advised at all. Thus, I want the maximum peak power to be either at or above the rating of a main breaker, which here is standardized at 200 amps.

If you are using a 100A breaker, you can cut my power figures in half for the inverter, and that alone will save some big bucks. If you are sure of your average energy usage, you can make similar adjustments as well to both the solar array and the batteries needed. In the end, all those calculations are based on what is typical here, and based on your season-to-month statements it is apparent you are not in the Northern Hemisphere and thus not in the US.

You also need to verify, then, the frequency of your standard AC line; appliances and other gadgets are designed for use with a specific frequency of power input. Putting 60 Hz into a device designed for 50 Hz can have unpleasant consequences depending on the device.

I am steadily working on a design to get myself off the grid as well, of course over-designed as I mentioned above, but with different electrical input than solar. The common need is an inverter, and I am playing with a design that uses a variation of a switching power supply and multiple floating voltage references to produce the AC supply directly. If that works out, I'm sure everyone on ATS will see it.


Incidentally, I am working with a 30-battery bank of 8-Ds, giving me 360V nominal (potential for 430V) for a minimum back-up of 15 hours plus... acceptable with a steadier source of DC power. I am also not interested in tying my system back into the grid; I will probably just install a 100A breaker in my box to be used as input rather than output. One major caution with this idea for anyone reading: Never, ever, have the auxiliary and main breakers on at the same time! 180 degrees out of phase would show a dead short and you have no simple way to know what the phase relationship is without expensive monitoring equipment.

TheRedneck



posted on Sep, 27 2012 @ 03:28 PM
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I'm confused...is solar energy worth it? We use around 1800 watts a month.





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