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A Question That No Christian Can Answer, Or Theist For That matter

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posted on Apr, 14 2012 @ 02:59 AM
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There are no souls being created. not the type of souls you are suggesting anyway. Would it make your reasoning more sound If I'd tell you that the concept of an immortal soul is one of the lies established by the vested religious order? The bible learns that when people die they dont have a soul that keeps on living... We simply... die!!




posted on Apr, 14 2012 @ 04:13 AM
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reply to post by olliemc84
 



You were one of the first posters (if not the first) to claim that god creates life, which to me would seem that god creates a soul.


Think of the soul as "software" for our physical bodies (hardware.)
My idea of the "soul" is that it is the essence of a person, that makes him who he is. It is his "self"
It is our souls that make us who we are, not our physical bodies.


So here is my question. IF there is a soul, when does it form in the human body? During conception, 2 weeks prior to conception, second trimester? WHEN???


I wouldn't say that our soul is a bodily element, that it "forms" in the body.
As for when it shows u p



There is absolutely no answer. No proof it exists.


Can you "see" your own eyes without using a mirror or any other reflective surface?
Your eye can see everything else, but it cannot see itself.
Similarly, the soul exists... like an "eye" that continuously witnesses our thoughts, emotions and perception of visual/aural stimuli from all around.



posted on Apr, 14 2012 @ 04:19 AM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 


What are the scriptures you base your belief of an immortal soul upon? I have done quite a bit of research on the subject and my conclusion completely contradicts what mainstream religion teaches. The bible is very clear on its views about life after death... it does not exist. Nor do we humans posses an immortal soul. At least thats what the bible teaches



posted on Apr, 14 2012 @ 04:30 AM
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Originally posted by EvilSadamClone
How are souls created? When are they created? Why are there so many souls in the modern age and where are they all coming from?

And why are they all coming here?



There's actually a simple answer here. "God" is in the act of reproduction. When the book calls you his "children" that's actually the point. And what's happening is that once created the "children" are undergoing a test called life. And there is a winnowing process going on. Those that pass will move on. Those that fail will be destroyed.

The ultimate purpose of it all? The Bible doesn't really state his ultimate purpose for those that pass to the next level. But it's a big universe. Assuming the purpose of all these new beings is to populate it. But at this point in time were just caterpillars contemplating what being a butterfly is all about.



posted on Apr, 14 2012 @ 04:39 AM
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reply to post by faceoff85
 



The bible is very clear on its views about life after death... it does not exist. Nor do we humans posses an immortal soul. At least thats what the bible teaches

What verses are you referring to exactly? Im curious to know.

From what I gather, the bible teaches that its all finished once a man dies.... but it also mentions a "world of the dead" where those who die end up in....before their judgement. Then there is also the resurrection of the dead.

And also, our souls are not "immortal" because God, as their maker, can destroy them.



posted on Apr, 14 2012 @ 05:13 AM
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Originally posted by sk0rpi0n

What verses are you referring to exactly? Im curious to know.

From what I gather, the bible teaches that its all finished once a man dies.... but it also mentions a "world of the dead" where those who die end up in....before their judgement. Then there is also the resurrection of the dead.

And also, our souls are not "immortal" because God, as their maker, can destroy them.


One scripture wich describes this issue is the following:

Ecclesiastes 9:5,6

New King James Version (NKJV)

5 For the living know that they will die;
But the dead know nothing,
And they have no more reward,
For the memory of them is forgotten.
6 Also their love, their hatred, and their envy have now perished;
Nevermore will they have a share
In anything done under the sun.

Kinda leaves no room for a soul thats excluded from this case.

Then to answer the question about hell (to the best of my knowledge offcourse
)

The bible tells us what the payment for sin is and surprisingly it does not involve fire


Romans 6:7

New King James Version (NKJV)

7 For he who has died has been freed from sin.
23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

So here we see that death pays for our sins... with this reasoning how can we possibly be punished further in the lake of fire..

Furthermore the nowadays common word "hell"is a word not to be found in the bible AT ALL... the bible has 3 names for this symbolical place for the dead. Hades, sjeool and Gehenna... a symbolical place.

So now we have scriptures where its clearly stated what happens when a person dies. however in these scriptures there is not even a hint of continuation of life in whatever form possible... it describes nothing more or less then an absence of life.

if there is a point I have not explained properly please point it out and I'll give it my best shot

edit on 14/4/2012 by faceoff85 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 14 2012 @ 05:58 AM
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just stumbled across the following Q&A page wich discusses in detail the question of hell, eternal souls and the way the bible views these points,
en.allexperts.com...



Do you seriously believe a loving God (1 JOHN 4;8) would torture people forever and ever?? The bible teaches this regarding HELL—
1. The dead cannot experience pain (Ecc 9;5,10)
2. The soul does not survive the death of the body.(Ezk 18;4)
3. Upright people also go to Hell. (Job 14;13)
4. People get out of Hell.(rev 20;13,14)
5. The word “torment” means “Jailer”(matthew 18;34)
6. The word Gehenna is not the same word as Hell and is used symbolically.
7. We are not subject to punishment AFTER death. (Romans 6;7)
8. Eternal torment is not compatible with God's personality. (Jer.7;31)

What is the origin of the teaching of hellfire? In ancient Babylonian and Assyrian beliefs the “nether world . . . is pictured as a place full of horrors, and is presided over by gods and demons of great strength and fierceness.” (The Religion of Babylonia and Assyria, Boston, 1898, Morris Jastrow, Jr., p. 581) Early evidence of the fiery aspect of Christendom's hell is found in the religion of ancient Egypt. (The Book of the Dead, New Hyde Park, N.Y., 1960, with introduction by E. A. Wallis Budge, pp. 144, 149, 151, 153, 161) Buddhism, which dates back to the 6th century B.C.E., in time came to feature both hot and cold hells. (The Encyclopedia Americana, 1977, Vol. 14, p. 68) Depictions of hell portrayed in Catholic churches in Italy have been traced to Etruscan roots.—La civiltà etrusca (Milan, 1979), Werner Keller, p. 389. But the real roots of this God-dishonoring doctrine go much deeper. The fiendish concepts associated with a hell of torment slander God and originate with the chief slanderer of God (the Devil, which name means “Slanderer”), the one whom Jesus Christ called “the father of the lie.”—John 8:44.

edit on 14/4/2012 by faceoff85 because: make sense of quote



posted on Apr, 14 2012 @ 06:25 AM
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reply to post by faceoff85
 


For the living know that they will die; But the dead know nothing, And they have no more reward, For the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, their hatred, and their envy have now perished; Nevermore will they have a share In anything done under the sun.
-Ecclesiastes 9:5-6


That verse only states the obvious- that when a man dies, its the end for him on earth...ansthat he leaves behind everything and is no longer part of our world.

It is not a conclusive teaching regarding the "soul" or the "afterlife".



So here we see that death pays for our sins... with this reasoning how can we possibly be punished further in the lake of fire..


uhhh.... what about the scriptures that teach of a fiery place of torment? You don't believe in that?

What about heaven? If you say that death is the end of it all, then there should be no heaven either.

There is plenty in scripture which points towards a continued existence after death. The concept of a heaven requires that souls survive death and continue existing.



posted on Apr, 14 2012 @ 06:36 AM
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Originally posted by sk0rpi0n

There is plenty in scripture which points towards a continued existence after death. The concept of a heaven requires that souls survive death and continue existing.


It would either require the continued existence of a soul or a resurection. either of the 2 would suffice... however the resurection is the only one acknowledged by scripture. scriptures wich would indicate a lasting soul are vague at the best and anything but conclusive.


what about the scriptures that teach of a fiery place of torment? You don't believe in that?


No I honestly dont believe such a place exists. read my previous post with the link. it takes alot of scriptures and gives an alternative explanation backed with sources.

Another believe wich adds in to this way of thinking is that I dont believe the bible gives us humans a promise of life in heaven after death. granted there are people going to heaven but then we're talking about a very select group of people. the majority of people being eligeble for salvation will receive the type of life YHWH had planned for Adam and Eve... Logical hey? god never changed his plans. we are destined to fill up earth... NOT heaven!!!
edit on 14/4/2012 by faceoff85 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 14 2012 @ 12:51 PM
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reply to post by Advantage
 


I have a collection of arachnids. They know me as " The Cricket Goddess.. She Who Rains Crickets From the Sky". Im awaiting a web temple construction to begin.

Reminds me of a story I heard long ago. There was a Kingdom of Ants. These ants lived happily in their land, they had many tunnels and caverns to store food and live in, and all honored the Mighty God that rained down food upon them, so that they may keep alive, and happy. This God also provided measures of light and darkness, and it was always a temperate climate in the Universe of the Ant Kingdom.

Then one day one of the scientist ants was on top, looking out at the vastness of the world and Universe they all lived in, and the owner of the ant farm walked by. The man stopped to admire the ant farm, and the scientist ant saw the man, and shouted out to him:

"Hey, what gives here?" "Who are you, and who are We?"

This is the relationship between humans and the Creators. Anyone who thinks they speak to them, instructs them in what to do, or gets involved in the affairs of humankind in any way whatsoever is fooling themselves. I have read people in here who think they know exactly what God it thinking at any given moment, and some who can recite verbatim what Jesus said to such and such on a given day, and what he meant by it. I do not understand how anyone can come to a conclusion like this, in all honesty.



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