A question for Christians on this subject

I don't really call myself a Christian anymore, but I do believe in the Teachings of Jesus (salvation will be found in him and those teachings) and that the Bible is a good way to live your life. But for me most of what the Bible says is metaphors and parables which Jesus confirms. Due in part to our lack of understanding, which in those times was limited scientifically.

That said I have no problem relating to a God that created the Universe at about 13 Billion years ago, creating life (which the period of time is still an unknown), creating evolution (a fantastic design for life to adapt to any circumstances) which also leads to a possibility of life existing elsewhere.
If in fact the Universe is 13 Billion years old than it is certainly possible that there is intelligence elsewhere, if not in our Galaxy than in one of the several other Trillion.

Now about evil beings or demons, I also believe in string theory which would state we have a multiverse. This could mean that there are beings that do not have bodies in a material or physical world. It could be these are the very demons that are spoken of and that they do want to inhabit bodies and undermine our existence for their own ends.
There could also be intelligences in the universe that just do not follow our ways of thinking and appear to have an “Evil” agenda but to them it is just the way they do things, sort of like Republicans…

But to think that God put the universe out there as vast, complicated and wondrous as it is, only to destroy it, makes no sense. I don’t think in my view that God would do this to “Trick” us either. If we created like God (through our spirit, and consciousness) then the creation was there for us to be curious and learn about, not to be pretty lights and tell us the time of day. And was created so far away so that we may grow up (evolve) enough to not RUIN his beautiful creations (his Garden if you will) like we have Earth.

But this view has come from seeing God’s creation and understanding the mind of God, not the words written by men (just like mine) under the so called inspiration or spirit of God.

1: I can only answer with an example but its not based on scipture. I believe the function for outer space is to create light on a clear night. also our purpose was to have eternal life (adam and eve were immortal) so space could also serve as a future hobby? to keep us occupied kinda thing since living forever would require something to pass the time also I think an analogy can be drawn here.... Space is pretty murch earths "backyard"

I have believed this for a very long time, as if space is as vast as we think it is it would take forever just to see it all! LOL

I have also considered that Space, the heavens as they were are the original Garden that we are prevented from, at least in this life or until we mature enough to not go trampling through this beautiful creation.

This is a really great documentary / movie that addresses many of the questions you ask OP, it's a long one so curl up and relax, and enjoy this very insightful piece of work when you get a chance....

www.youtube.com...

This is an interesting thread. Honestly, as a Christian, I have never heard of extraterrestrials being "demons in hiding." That is not as popular a belief among Christians as you may think. On the list of things I don't believe in, ghosts, psychics, fortune-tellers, and the like rank far higher than extraterrestrials.

What I do believe in that God created man in his own image. That is what sets us apart from any variation of life. It doesn't make us better or worse, but it is what makes us unique. I do not believe in the popular "far-advanced superbeing" ET phenomena. Could there be life on other planets? Sure, if its within God's will.

Also, look into some ancient Christian artwork, you will find some renderings of UFOs!

www.abovetopsecret.com...

You are making assumptions that you cannot back. Not all Christians believe that there is no life out there. Us Catholics are silent on the subject as we have no proof either way. As stated over and over (see attached thread 615478). You are just opening a dialogue that has already been argued at nauseum here at ATS.

"Then I saw a new Heaven and a new Earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea.

I saw the Holy City,

the new Jerusalem,

coming down out of heaven from God,

prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband.

And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, 'Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away'

'Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them.

Mother ship
size

The city’s exact dimensions are measured by an angel and reported to be 12,000 stadia, the equivalent of 1,400 miles or 2,200 kilometers, in length, width, and height (Revelation 21:15-16). Even though these proportions may have symbolic importance, this doesn’t mean they can’t be literal. In fact, Scripture emphasizes that the dimensions are given in “man’s measurement” (Revelation 21:17). If the city really has these dimensions (and there’s no reason it couldn’t), what more could we expect God to say to convince us? (I deal with whether the dimensions are literal in appendix B, “Literal and Figurative Interpretation.”)

A metropolis of this size in the middle of the United States would stretch from Canada to Mexico and from the Appalachian Mountains to the California border. The New Jerusalem is all the square footage anyone could ask for.

Even more astounding is the city’s 1,400-mile height.

www.epm.org...

Originally posted by palg1
www.abovetopsecret.com...

You are making assumptions that you cannot back. Not all Christians believe that there is no life out there. Us Catholics are silent on the subject as we have no proof either way. As stated over and over (see attached thread 615478). You are just opening a dialogue that has already been argued at nauseum here at ATS.

The thing that I consistently notice, and this is also what has primarily driven me away from Christianity, is the continual appeal to fear.

The documentary which someone else linked for me earlier in this thread is a good example. I got the feeling that the person doing so had good intentions, but it absolutely reeked of apocalyptic fear.

Fear, I keep seeing, is the central motivating factor of contemporary Christianity. Aliens are demons, Satan rules the world. We're all going to Hell. These are ideas and opinions that I see expressed by Christians over and over and over again.

My apostasy was motivated by a need to believe in something else; even if said something else did not actually exist. I could no longer tolerate a belief system which was primarily structured around, and based on, fear; to the point where I have conceded that if I am going to Hell for such, then I will accept that willingly, with no resentment.

reply to post by petrus4

also what has primarily driven me away from Christianity, is the continual appeal to fear.

Fear is a tool of control , a frightened person is compliant and dependent on you to assuage their fear , the best example of this in recent times is the use of the fear of terrorism by governments to implement authoritarian laws.

The church has done it for centuries .

reply to post by petrus4

The thing that I consistently notice, and this is also what has primarily driven me away from Christianity, is the continual appeal to fear.

It is not as bad as when I was growing up, I was terrified of hell.

I guess people that still believe in hell fire and damnation maybe have your best interest at heart, even though it terrifies us, I have to hope they are just worried about my soul and weren't actually trying to scare me to death.

I would wonder how heaven could be a wonderful place knowing your loved ones were in eternal damnation,

reply to post by MountainLaurel

that is a good one and i hope they watch it.
here is another one.

reply to post by petrus4


This is a common falsehood. In my opinion, those who convert to Christianity out of fear are doing it for all the wrong reasons. Fear is not of God, it is not of faith. Faith is, in all intents and purposes, the opposite of fear.

My choice to know God was not motivated by fear, threats of hell, or the like. I do not fear Satan, nor do I fear Hell, nor any other power in this world. My desire to come to know God came from humility and an unquenchable desire to know God and his goodness.

It is only through my faith that for the first time I live a life completely devoid of fear. Through this I have learned to enjoy each moment as I am given and take the world for what it is, not what I would have it be,

Two thoughts enter my mind:

1) Hard to believe we are alone in the vast universe.
2) Somebody had to be first.

Originally posted by petrus4
My question for Christians, as a consequence of this is; what is the divine purpose of outer space? Why did God bother creating space at all, if it is completely empty? If we are the only life form there is, why create all that extra area? Wouldn't it have surely been more economical, in terms of effort, to simply just create this planet, alone?

I'm not a Christian, but hypothetically, a divine superentity doesn't need to be economical, since it has all of existence to fiddle around with.

But look at it this way. God will always need our consciousness in order for it to exist. Without us around, there is no one to worship it, or to conceptualize it. It becomes the proverbial tree in the forest with no one around to hear it fall. Maybe it falls, maybe it doesn't, but the upshot is that it doesn't matter. And you can debate about the physical aspects of a divine superbeing, but you at least have to describe it as "important" in some non-physical dimension that has to do with things being necessary. Without us around, it's not important or necessary.

So it needs to put everything in place so that we exist and we exist in this particular way. And in order to do that, maybe this superentity needs to arrange all the matter and energy in the universe in just the right configuration or that particular intersection of time and energy and gravity and everything else doesn't result in a strand of DNA happening. You wouldn't think that it's necessary for a galaxy to exist 1.5 billion light years away for us to be here, but it's all interconnected. You chance one little aspect of it and the whole thing collapses.

That's not really a Christian perspective though. Christians are more about "sin," and how an individual makes choices that put them either in or out of a state of "grace" with God. In that regard, God might create outer space as a kind of test to see if a person will still believe in God even though when you look out into space there is no God to be seen. A test of faith, or a way to teach humanity not to get so hung up on physical existence.

reply to post by Stormdancer777


Hmmmm.....Sounds like a sphere to me. At all points the same size. I think the moon is about 2600 miles wide so that's too big. How big is that asteroid that's in a horseshoe orbit with earth anyway? Any moons out there parked around some planet somewhere that's about the same size?

If I was God (and I am not, thankfully) I would put any new life form that I had recently created far away from the ones that I know have been successful.

If you are a scientist and you create a cure for a disease or a super virus or something like that, do you stick it right in the middle of all the other successful ones, or do you keep it isolated until you know how it is going to evolve?

Maybe God is keeping us isolated until he knows how we will evolve? Maybe that is why no one gets the key to the pearly gates until they have atoned for their sins and such.

Just spit balling…..

Side note: I cannot believe that I felt the need to specify that I was not God, but while I am at it, let me state I am not Satan either, just to be sure I covered all the bases.

Blend57

Now. I believe I can answer this to some effect, and as I don't have time to read any of the arguments or comments, I am just going to compose this and post it. Even if someone else already did. Bear with me. Anyways. God created the Universe, from what I have read, for humans. His original plan, if sin had not fell through, was for humans to populate the entire universe. Now this is possible theoretically. Also, I recently read a book entitled "The Genesis Question." This book has some inconsistencies and tries to fit the 7 days of creation into "ages." Granted his approach and interpretation are somewhat wrong, but this is a common idea. And IF it were true, then each day, in our eyes, was millions of years. Eventually culminating in the 6th day and creating humans about 37,000 years ago. Also, God would create something to his fullest capabilities. And not just half ass it Another point, as God is indefinite, that is outside of time, and eternal. Would it really make sense he would sit there twiddling his fingers for all those years and years and years. This is wear the theory of "Old Creation and New Creation" comes from. That something else was in the Universe before, another creation of God's. And for, whatever reason, they ended, or ceased, and God started completely over with us. Sadly, according to many Jewish commentaries and Rabbi, and teachings, the first letter of Genesis, in the Jewish script, is written strangely. It is open on the side facing the rest of the book, while the other side is closed. It is not seen written in the Bible this way again and it is generally interpreted that the time before our creation cannot be known to us.
www.biblewheel.com...
^The link is a site to meanings of Jewish letters.
So the Universe will not have its purpose filled, no matter what, because of sin. And it has destroyed God's original purpose and replaced it with a new one.
Question 2: If demons had a plan, it would be logical, am I right? Now presidents have even stated, Google it, that for the Earth to unite they would have to face a threat form "outside of earth," Am I correct? IN this way the people of Earth would unite against them. What easier way to bring about the fake world peace than staging Alien contact, I could say more on this but I don't have time and half to go. Have a good one!

reply to post by Furbs


I believe that was a referance to the Gentiles, as people removed from the "flock" by the Jewish people and religion (Judasim) not nessisarly for aliens etc.

i don't think "all" aliens are demons, such "bad" beings. On the contrary,. they could be much more evolved spiritually than many fundamentalist christians. On this life plain. I like to think I am a christine but I think it is a big mistake to put all christians in the group "all christians think that all aliens are demons".

I think there is proof that the aliens that are in the Gary Wilcox case and Lonnie Zamora case and Aliens in the Forest case are white suited individuals (from head to toe). I really think they have to live underground on mars and have lost their resistance to living on earth. I think their is a great possibility that they could be 100's if not thousands of years in advance than our culture and technology.

I think they are no were near the advancement of the grey aliens. But I am not sure wether they are good or bad. But I think the silver white suited beings in those three cases are martians and are dependance of some the races of our earth and cannot be demons in the sense that SOME christians think (obviously not all)

Adam and Eve theory CAN NOT be totally true because all the races COULD NOT all be from adam and eve, I think that is a no brainer.

Just the scripture "Adam made of clay and Eve from Adams rib" has to be a DNA concept etc. I think that Zacharia Sitchen was on to something, though I am certainly not sure about the Nibiru concept.

Any faith that chastises another race, just on the basis of heresay or conjecture, is in itself, an inherently evil faith.

This is my own shamanistic opinion,

Erno86

Originally posted by petrus4
So I'm currently re-watching the movie Thrive, which has just been released free online, as I've mentioned in another thread (www.abovetopsecret.com...) 


More questions.  What is the point of extraterrestrials deceiving us?  How are they deceiving us, and in what way?  Assuming, again hypothetically, that they are deceiving us, doesn't having them come from outer space seem like an excessively laborious explanation?  If Satan wanted to have his demons pretend to be another race of beings in order to deceive people, why not just use the stories of the fairies, and make out that they're from Earth?  Wouldn't that, again, be a lot easier?

.

edit on 13-4-2012 by petrus4 because: (no reason given)

My take for what it's worth.


"9The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders, 10and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie 12and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness."


Scripture is all about His creation, therefore in my opinion, the biggest and most powerful delusion that mankind has received is a theory that is promoted as a certain fact - Evolution. I was taught evolution that stated that I evolved from apes which evolved from goo. The theory of evolution has been embraced wholeheartedly, and in fact, is the biggest reason for Christian descendants letting go of faith. It literally destroys belief in God. It also is now the most often cited reason given for why ETs MUST exist elsewhere - if we evolved here then it MUST have occurred elsewhere. Just a glance at the ATS boards now confirms my fear - that the evolution I grew up with - is now being slowly twisted to a sort of creation evolution, ancient alien style, aka ETS had a hand in our creation either through genetic manipulation or outright seeding. There truly is no greater and more powerful delusion that I could think of to end this Age. 

People have channeled 'aliens' and gurus have channeled 'spirits' and overwhelmingly, the messages are identical. False prophecies are given that fail time and time again because they LIE. Yet many still believe it for they do not love the truth of God. Today, hundreds of posts are made daily deriding anyone who maintains Faith in our Creator as 'stupid, delusional and ignorant' because they'd rather believe that there is no Creator who will ever judge them. Well, per scripture, their own love of lies and the little value that they place on truth, prevents them from getting down on a knee with a humbled heart to ask God Himself for the truth. Many of the same individuals hold Faith that aliens created us. There is absolutely no doubt that spirits exist, but whether or not they appear in some physical form remains to be seen. In my opinion, just the propaganda and indoctrination into the BELIEF of them has been exceptionally powerful at undermining faith in the descendants of Christians. They have given up their God for the "doctrines of demons", and now fully entertain the idea that they were our Creator. Many today also are believing in them as our saviour. Perfect delusion  - the theory of evolution presented as fact to destroy a belief in Creation only to watch it warp into creation by ETs - and if you cannot see how that has shifted worship of God onto another then Heaven help us.