Hi there,

Does anyone know of any evidence which conclusively shows a connection between the Rothschild family and the founding of the Illuminati in 1776 by Weishaupt?

I've seen so many different writers say "The Rothschilds funded the illuminati" but have yet to see any conclusive evidence for such a big claim. Can anyone help? Thx

One term that might help you here is "merovingian", google that one and throw in rothschild or weishaupt as pleases you and that should answer at least part of your question. Hope that helps...

"Those who search for me will find themselves. Those who do not, will perish"

Originally posted by The illuminati
"Those who search for me will find themselves. Those who do not, will perish"

What exactly do you mean by that my friend? I assume we will all perish one day.

Still nothing to show that the Rothschilds actually funded/founded the organisation called the Illuminati

Errm... So any evidence anyone??

[edit on 9-10-2004 by yodamus]

Originally posted by yodamus
Hi there,

Does anyone know of any evidence which conclusively shows a connection between the Rothschild family and the founding of the Illuminati in 1776 by Weishaupt?

No. The Illuminati began as a quasi-Masonic Rite in Bavaria that was orginally called the Order of Perfectibilis, with Weishaupt as Grand Master and Von Knigge as Deputy. The term "illuminati" was popular at the time to describe folks who accepted the principles of the Enlightenment, and Weishaupt officially changed the group's name.

According to Weishaupt's memoires, published as "In Defense of Illuminism", he had originally intended the Order to be an appendant Masonic order, and focused on recruiting from the local Masonic Lodges in Bavaria. However, there were disagreements over policy between the Illuminati and the Masonic Lodges, so Weishaupt eventually ignored regular Masonry, and began conferring the degrees of Blue Lodge Masonry as the 4th, 5th, and 6th degrees of the Illuminati without proper Masonic authority. This is what led many regular Masons who were members of the Illuminati to resign from it, including Mozart and Goethe.

The Illuminati was primarily funded by Weishaupt and Von Knigge themselves, although many Masons and liberals secretlycontributed money to them in hope of organizing a resistance movement to the Jesuit Electorate. It is believed by many that they were aided financially by Frederick the Great, king of Prussia, who was also no friend of the Jesuit government in Ingolstadt.

Fiat Lvx.



[edit on 9-10-2004 by Masonic Light]

Mozart was in the Illuminati????? What is your source for that?

Thanks for that info. I'm aware of that much - I'm just trying to see if there actually IS any factual evidence linking the illuminati/rothschilds conclusively... not evidence which shows that no link exists, because I'm currently in that position

Originally posted by yodamus
Mozart was in the Illuminati????? What is your source for that?

"Coil's Masonic Encyclopedia" by Henry Wilson Coil, "Encyclopedia of Freemasonry" by Albert G. Mackey, and "New Encyclopedia of Freemasonry" by A.E. Waite. Mozart was also a Mason, and member of Friendship Lodge in Salzburg.
Mozart's last opera was a pro-Illuminati piece called "Die Zauberflote", or "The Magic Flute". The opera tells the story of a wicked sorceress called the Queen of the Night, who represents the Roman Catholic Church. In the opera, the Queen attempts to enslave mankind, but meets a formidable foe in the Illuminati, led by the Hierophant Sarastro.
Prince Tamino, the hero of the story, escapes the clutches of the Queen, and is admitted and initiated into the Illuminati, who have three Temples: the Temple of Science, the Temple of Nature, and the Temple of Osiris (sometimes called in the opera the Temple of the Sun). The opera follows Tamino in his initation into all three degrees of the Temple.

Having been renewed through initiation, Tamino finally conquers the Queen. Sarastro then reminds Tamino of his oath to repay good for evil, so Tamino does not destroy the Queen but only exiles her to the wilderness where she can no longer do harm. The opera ends with the Adepts of the Illuminati joining in a chorus to welcome a new age of brotherhood.

The opera is highly symbolic; the Queen's "exile" no doubt represents the primary goal of Weishaupt's Illuminati, the separation of church and state and institution of free speech and religious tolerance in Bavaria.

Mozart's widow, Constance, claimed he was murdered by local clergymen because he was a Mason and member of the Illuminati. The opera Die Zauberflote was of course denounced as heretical by the Church.

Fiat Lvx.







[edit on 9-10-2004 by Masonic Light]

Masonic Light: Thx for the info Yeah I knew about his masonic connections and the "occult" themes in the Magic Flute (as well as its brilliant composition!), but I didn't know he was Illuminati too... Well it can't be evil, then! Also, do you have a source for Constanze's claims? I know Mozart thought that he had been poisoned, but I have read that his wife dismissed it as absurd.
Also, would you happen to know anything about the "Grand Orient" Freemasonry branch?

Elron: Thanks for the link - I've read through that book before but it STILL doesn't conclusively show that the Illuminati were founded/funded by the Rothschilds. Saying "The Rothschilds funded the Illuminati" is not enough - there has to be factual evidence to back it up!

Anyone?



[edit on 10-10-2004 by yodamus]

Originally posted by Masonic Light

Originally posted by yodamus
Mozart was in the Illuminati????? What is your source for that?

"Coil's Masonic Encyclopedia" by Henry Wilson Coil, "Encyclopedia of Freemasonry" by Albert G. Mackey, and "New Encyclopedia of Freemasonry" by A.E. Waite.

haha

Masonic Light IS a Masonic Encyclopedia.

lol

Whether there is a connection or not, the more important question given the directive of this supposed illumanti is: In 300 years have they achieved the goal of overthrowing governments and religion so they may take control of the world? If not, when exactly is Weishupt supposed to reap the benefits?

Well a Rothschild connection would lend credence to the theory that they had taken control over the world, rather than the fact that they were a quasi-masonic organisation which died out within 15 years of its founding and has been the target of generations of paranoids for about 2 centuries now..

See my point?

Why does it matter how they started the prolem is there screwing # up and I'm all for screwing rite back whose with me?Ps: the illuminaties origins arnt that easy to figure out you can trace them back to east germany if u look hard enough.

Originally posted by yodamus
Also, do you have a source for Constanze's claims? I know Mozart thought that he had been poisoned, but I have read that his wife dismissed it as absurd.

I once read a biography of Mozart that elaborated on this, but I don't remember the author's name. Assuming he was correct, the story may be related in other Mozart biographies as well (I've only read the one, and it was back many moons ago when I was in high school).

You are correct that initially Mozart's friends and wife thought he was delirious when he claimed he was being poisoned. But, at least according to this book, his wife reconsidered after his death. Mozart's body, for whatever reason, was entrusted to the local church, which immediately buried it in an unmarked grave. His Lodge Brothers arrived from Vienna a few days later to give him a proper Masonic burial, only to be dismissed by the clergy in a very cold manner, who told them that the body was buried and that was the end of it. I am not here claiming (nor did the author) that Mozart was actually murdered, only that suspicions were aroused. Personally, I agree with most historians that he died of typhoid.

Also, would you happen to know anything about the "Grand Orient" Freemasonry branch?

"Grand Orient" is an alternative title for a Grand Lodge, which is the governing body of Freemasonry, and is composed of representatives from the subordinate Lodges in the Masonic jurisdictioon; it's sort of the "Congress" of Freemasonry.
The largest bodies that call themselves "Grand Orient" are the Grand Orient of Italy and Grand Orient of France. The Grand Orient of Italy is regular, and is recognized by all US Grand Lodges and United Grand Lodge of England. The Grand Orient of France is irregular, and is recognized by none of the above (the regular French body is the National Grand Lodge of France, which also does not recognize the French Grand Orient).

The two most important Italian patriots of modern times, Mazzini and Garibaldi, had both served as Grand Master of the Grand Orient of Italy. The Grand Orient was closed in the 1920's in the famous anti-Masonic purge ordered by Mussolini, but re-opened immediately following World War II.

Fiat Lvx.

Woops, it was moving so slow I got a double post.

[edit on 13-10-2004 by TgSoe]

Originally posted by Masonic Light
Weishaupt eventually ignored regular Masonry, and began conferring the degrees of Blue Lodge Masonry as the 4th, 5th, and 6th degrees of the Illuminati without proper Masonic authority.

Fiat Lvx.

Wow ML, I would have thought that the blue degrees of Masonary would have been far beneath any degree in the Illuminati. I assumed Illuminati degrees would come somewhere after the 33rd degree of regular Masonary. Perhaps I have way underestimeated Masonary.

I don't think the rothschilds asked for any receipts for their contributions.