non fiber optic camera's security risk

Sorry mods if this isn't in the right forum but i couldn't really find a place to put this.

I should state that I know something about security cameras and the installation and before people jump to conclusions this thread isn't intended to teach people how to by pass a security camera for any illegal purpose. Also if their are any security camera installation tech's here that can say this idea doesn't work please explain why.

Ok now onto the subject of the security risk on "non fiber optic cabled" security cameras. Every security camera is hooked up to a recording device called a dvr or "digital recording device" and a power box.The power box is independent of the DVR and has power cables to power the cameras, each cable has a circuit breaker on the power box encase one camera goes down it doesn't take out the whole system. But I was thinking most people plug the dvr into a surge protector to protect it from electrical shock lol problem is all the video feed cable is directly plugged into the DVR and in essence if you happened to get into a blind spot unplug the camera's video feed cable and lets say zap it with tazer it would fry the motherboard in the DVR so the cameras didn't record anything plus anything in the dvr memory is wiped out. No james bond looping video feeds criminals just a taser and a screw driver or alan wrench + a ladder and you have disabled a security system so it doesn't record effectively making the cameras useless.

Is a Taser really necessary when all you'd really need is a paintball gun?

They don't sell Tasers at WalMart iirc

reply to post by Nick_X


yeah paint ball guns don't take down the whole system it just obscures the view in one camera plus if the cameras pointed at you its recorded. Thanks for relying

Originally posted by Nick_X
Is a Taser really necessary when all you'd really need is a paintball gun?

They don't sell Tasers at WalMart iirc

I've always thought paintball guns are what those traffic cameras were there for,,,,,, am I wrong?

I mean, if a person is going to get in the blind spot of a camera, and disable it with a taser, What is different to getting into the blind spot of a camera and disabling it with a paintball gun?

Scenario 1 - The camera records nothing
Scenario 2 - The camera records paint'

I don't really see a big difference in the two scenarios.

reply to post by Nick_X


Ok maybe its to technical for you to understand. The DVR records all video from every camera I am not talking about knocking down one camera I'm talking about knocking down the system that records all video cameras in effect making the cameras useless because they cant record anything. No video playback on any camera by disabling one camera you disable all the cameras. What you doing doesn't do a thing except block the view in one camera while you still might have 15 others that are up and running

Basically I can disable the camera and zap the cable the leads to the DVR. The DVR records all the cameras video feeds ifto facto you just disabled any evidence on all cameras not just one camera plus you erased any memory from the prior week or two lol. So in effect their is no evidence of you ever doing anything on camera even if your right In front of the camera smiling into it there will be no video of it.
Because the DVR aka DIGITAL RECORDING DEVICE not the camera is destroyed

If you happen to be so lucky to get into a blind spot of a camera, I guarantee you are going to have security guards wanting to talk to you.

I do similar services for work, so i know how it work.

It could take out the camera's but the guards would be there waiting.

And there always could be a remote storage device on other computers on the network.

Downing the DVR wont down the whole network, just a portion of it.

reply to post by Quickfix


bolt cutters and a tazer takes 15 secs I highly doubt they have that much time. plus the remote storage device is just a computer hooked to the dvr which sends the video feed to an ip address which has a server that stores the info. So if you got in a blind spot and cut and tazer the video feed cable it would knock our rhe dvr and it wouldn't send anything to the remote storage see the problem. Security guards could get shot with no video. Unless your talking about wireless security cameras then you can just hack them easy as wireless security is way way easier to crack and shut down even disrupt the signals by figuring what frequency they are on.

reply to post by digital01anarchy


sounds like too much of a hassle when all you really need is a mask,

staking the place out, making sure no one is around, figuring out where they actually store their DVR equipment, not to mention all the tools you will leave behind in case someone stumbles onto you while you are carrying out your plan

and how to you plan on getting to the DVR equipment without being caught on camera, knocking the system out will still have the recordings fro before

a mask is the real weakness of any camera system... fiber optic or not

**snip** just noticed you meant zapping the video in, but still a mask is easier and faster

Originally posted by Kr0nZ
reply to post by digital01anarchy

 

sounds like too much of a hassle when all you really need is a mask,

staking the place out, making sure no one is around, figuring out where they actually store their DVR equipment, not to mention all the tools you will leave behind in case someone stumbles onto you while you are carrying out your plan

and how to you plan on getting to the DVR equipment without being caught on camera, knocking the system out will still have the recordings fro before

a mask is the real weakness of any camera system... fiber optic or not

and i dont even see what fiber optic has to do with anything, the video still has to be recorded to somewhere

edit on 13-4-2012 by Kr0nZ because: (no reason given)

Wow ok I will address the issues with your understanding. first off yeah a mask works great but it gives great details like height weight even is able to see things maybe people wouldn't notice. The reason you cant do this with fiber optic cable is because its core is made of glass not copper and copper carries voltage but glass/plastic doesn't. The DVR holds recording from the video cameras in its memory if you fry the motherboard on the dvr it most likely will kill the harddrive that stores all information saved. Unless they have an alternate storage device in which case your in a blind spot will not matter. a pair of bolt cutter and a tazer hummm if someone stumles onto your plan you tazer them game over.figuring out where they actually store their DVR equipment lol you dont have to find where the DVR is because its hooked to every cameras video feed cable so if you cut one cable then tazer the cable that leads back into the building you fry the motherboard on the DVR.

first off you'd have to somehow hook the tazer up directly to the camera's IO cable for this to even have a prayer of working. Second tazers are HIgh voltage Low CURRENT which means they probably wouldn't fry much of anything.
It's a nice thought but ultimately you'd be better off with something like a lashed up set of multiple LIpo batteries and a capacitor bank designed to dump a whole lot of power in a short time. Even then I have my doubts that it'd work, but definitely not with a tazer.

After doing a bit of digging I've found that a tazer puts out on the order of .00036 amps or 3 milliamps while this handy dandy hidden camera DVR I found has a power supply rated at 5 volts dc at either 2 or .2 amps. As you can plainly see the amperage addition that a tazer would theoretically add to the circuit in hypothetically Ideal circumstances is still less than a single percent of the base amperage in the circuit. tazer amperage facts spygear DVR power pack picture clearly showing .2 or 2 amp power supply

In order to overload a circuit and actually damage a dvr player you'd need to double or even triple the amount of amperage in order to guarantee burning out the circuit in a timely manner. So in theory you could maybe burn up a dvr player but I'm not even sure a coax cable would take enough current to accomplish any of this.

"Zapping" a single camera on a fibre-optic cabled network will very likely NOT disable the whole system and the recorder. The fibre Tx / Rx modules will blow before any surge gets back to the controlling head-end system or recording server / DVR.
They have in-built surge protection to mitigate such events due to overload or lightning etc.

So, zapping a camera with a tazer will kill that camera and maybe a single fibre transmit or receive module, but nothing more. Anyone designing or installing a system that would allow such catastrophic damage due to an attack on a single part of the system, would not stay in business long and would likely not get hired by anyone who knew what they were buying.

Ok, apologies... re-read and see that non-fibre system was mentioned.

Same applies though, all parts of the system, especially for any outdoor cameras that may be prone to lightning or other events will be surge protected at several points.

Originally posted by roguetechie
first off you'd have to somehow hook the tazer up directly to the camera's IO cable for this to even have a prayer of working. Second tazers are HIgh voltage Low CURRENT which means they probably wouldn't fry much of anything.
It's a nice thought but ultimately you'd be better off with something like a lashed up set of multiple LIpo batteries and a capacitor bank designed to dump a whole lot of power in a short time. Even then I have my doubts that it'd work, but definitely not with a tazer.

After doing a bit of digging I've found that a tazer puts out on the order of .00036 amps or 3 milliamps while this handy dandy hidden camera DVR I found has a power supply rated at 5 volts dc at either 2 or .2 amps. As you can plainly see the amperage addition that a tazer would theoretically add to the circuit in hypothetically Ideal circumstances is still less than a single percent of the base amperage in the circuit. tazer amperage facts spygear DVR power pack picture clearly showing .2 or 2 amp power supply

In order to overload a circuit and actually damage a dvr player you'd need to double or even triple the amount of amperage in order to guarantee burning out the circuit in a timely manner. So in theory you could maybe burn up a dvr player but I'm not even sure a coax cable would take enough current to accomplish any of this.

edit on 13-4-2012 by roguetechie because: more information

Thank you i just wanted to see if this would work but it doesn't. theoretically the concept is sound if you had something with high current and high voltage.

Tasers only generate an extremely high voltage when the resistance between the contacts is very high, like when there is an air gap and to a much lesser extent flesh. If the taser contacts something of a very low resistance then the voltage between the contacts will not be very high, especially because a taser is to a certain extent a current source rather than a voltage source. This is part of the reason why taser-proof vests work.

Whether a taser would kill a DVR depends on the design of the taser and the details of the security system. I don't know either. But in any case I think protecting against this kind of thing wouldn't be very difficult via some kind of protection and it would surprise me if this isn't already done. Could just put a diode between the wires that turns on when the voltage is higher than normal or something similar.

Also DVR = Digital Video Recorder.

reply to post by roguetechie

After doing a bit of digging I've found that a tazer puts out on the order of .00036 amps or 3 milliamps while this handy dandy hidden camera DVR I found has a power supply rated at 5 volts dc at either 2 or .2

The power supply will output at 5 volts, but that's different to saying it will continuously output power at 2 ampere. That's the max the power supply is rated to supply. The actual amount of current supplied depends on the impedance of the device connected. Also the camera itself probably has power regulation electronics it that lower the voltage well below 5 V. Also current is dependant on voltage and resistance, no idea what voltage would be enough to kill it. Sometimes it's surprisingly low.

But yeah, connecting some big capacitors at a high voltage and shocking the hell out of the system would probably do it.

First of all, this is a discussion about the possible methodology of the criminal mind, but it does not address the key issue. It may be that domestic and light duty camera systems are easy to knock out this way, but most banks and public buildings in my country have cameras for one reason. They are cheaper than security guards, take no pension, and are easily replaced.

Because in order for the camera systems to function the DVR must be viable, it is protected by surge proof baffles at every potential access point, both from the power outlet, and on every cable connected to it. Furthermore, most camera systems on the market these days come with both wired, and wireless cameras. The wireless ones are usually placed so as to be damned near invisible, behind a vent or pot plant, but covering the blind spots of other cameras. Although it is easy to use homebrewed or off the shelf (spy shop) gadgets to jam some models of wireless camera, it is also impossible to fry the DVR by attacking one, unless the person doing the cooking happens to have recently discovered etheric electrical transmission.

reply to post by C0bzz


Also DVR = Digital Video Recorder. note taken lol sorry about that people should have been more specific it was late when i was writing

reply to post by C0bzz


Right Cobzz I understand that overvolts could in theory kill the system, but what i was trying to point out is that for a sure fire kill of the system your best bet would be to try and hit the DVR with high current which can burn out components at a much quicker rate than voltage from what I understand. With what you are saying a tazer might even in theory work by inducing an over volt situation.

But you are still looking at a situation where you'd have to strip insulation off of the coax down to bare wire and then use the tazer on that. Otherwise you wouldn't even get through the insulation of the wire. And if you were to shoot the physical camera casing with a tazer chances are you wouldn't actually be getting voltage or current through to the internal circuitry of the camera for it to travel up the line to the DVR player.

In the long run I think you are better off working on alternative solutions like maybe a small EMP device to burn out all the electronics in the area you are looking to infiltrate. emp generator kits Some of the devices on that page are stated to be capable of shutting down a computer at 15 meters so maybe something along those lines would work to shut down a DVR system from far off.

reply to post by roguetechie


Remember that current is dependant on voltage (Aside: For this reason, I hate it when people tell me "current is what kills you"). If the voltage is too low then there won't be much current. So putting something like this in parallel with the DVR should be able to protect it (providing it can turn on fast enough) since it will effectively short the circuit (and lower the voltage and current through the DVR to zero).