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Substitutionary sacrifical atonement: Is it moral?

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posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 09:55 PM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
No, it appears time has passed, it's an illusion. It appears to you time has passed, in reality of reality of absolute realities (which is an illusion too, we live in a digital simulation, Planck's Lenth) it has not, it's an illusion. You are tricked into thinking time has passed because you are bound in the 4th dimension and exist in 10.

That's the only other way I can try and explain it.
Are you saying that I'm lying in a vat of pink goo and robots are using my bio electrical energy to power themselves?




posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 09:57 PM
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reply to post by Hydroman
 

How did we get on this anyway?

He was saying sacrifice is OK because God exists outside of time.



posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 10:00 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 

Dude, don't even bother, 9.9 times out of 10 when he says a word isn't in the Bible you can guarantee there are a minimum of 4 places it exists there.
What you do is find another word and redefine it, then say it means the same thing through some twisted logic.



posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 10:02 PM
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reply to post by Hydroman
 


The idea that one's shortcomings can be transferred to another is lazy ethics and immoral, in my opinion. One must be resonsible for one's actions.

"The Lottery" is a good example of the sacrificial mentality. It's not fair. It's not right!

edit on 12-4-2012 by windword because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 10:02 PM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
That's dishonest, I didn't say that. I said if I cannot appeal to an authority higher than mankind (God) I must then appeal to myself and Moral Relativism is a self-refuting fallacy of logic.
No, you said you couldn't appeal to the bible, an ancient book. I just repeated what you said.

Why can't morality be relative? Is it moral to litter? What does the bible say about it? Is it moral to pass gas in the presence of other people? What does the bible say about it? Is it moral to masturbate while thinking of my wife? Is it moral to beat your wife if she disobeys? Is it moral to pluck out my eyes if I have seen something I shouldn't have seen, or cut off my hand if I've stolen something? Is it moral to kill myself if I've caused a young one to sin?



posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 10:03 PM
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Originally posted by Hydroman

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
Next question?
If your daughter gets raped, is it ok to make her marry the person who raped her? What does your bible say?


First of all, the Law was fulfilled in Christ. Secondly, as a father I didn't have to let my daughter marry him under Mosaic Law. (Exodus 22:16-17) I'd ask her, if she wanted him to provide for her and the child and I'd let her make up her own choice, she was forbidden to marry another man after that since she wasn't a virgin. If she didn't want to I'd take care of her for life on the family estate. I'd let her choose which she was free to do.

Next question?



Are you Goggling evilbible.com? That site has been debuked 15 ways to Sunday dude.


edit on 12-4-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 10:06 PM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
First of all, the Law was fulfilled in Christ.
So it no longer applies?


Originally posted by NOTurTypical
Secondly, as a father I didn't have to let my daughter marry him under Mosaic Law. (Exodus 22:16-17) I'd ask her, if she wanted him to provide for her and the child and I'd let her make up her own choice, she was forbidden to marry another man after that since she wasn't a virgin. If she didn't want to I'd take care of her for life on the family estate. I'd let her choose which she was free to do.
What if you got raped by a man? Why wouldn't you let your daughter marry someone she loved? What's wrong with you?



posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 10:06 PM
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reply to post by Hydroman
 




Why can't morality be relative?


How could murder be both moral and immoral at the same time in the same context? It would violate the "Law of Non-Contradiction". Thus be self-refuting.



posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 10:07 PM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
Are you Goggling evilbible.com? That site has been debuked 15 ways to Sunday dude.
No sir, I don't know if I've ever visited that site. These thoughts are coming from my own evil brain. Did the holy spirit tell you that I was visiting that site or something? Please say yes.



posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 10:09 PM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
How could murder be both moral and immoral at the same time in the same context? It would violate the "Law of Non-Contradiction". Thus be self-refuting.
IMO, if you murder someone, you committed something immoral. Also, I would hope that everyone felt that way, but who knows? Christians have bombed abortion clinics to kill doctors. They thought they were doing something good. Islamic terrorist murder people because they feel like they are doing something good. Mothers have murdered their children because they felt that god told them to, therefore thinking it was good. Abraham would have murdered Isaac, thinking it was good.
edit on 12-4-2012 by Hydroman because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 10:11 PM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by Hydroman
 

How did we get on this anyway?

He was saying sacrifice is OK because God exists outside of time.


He's trying to say that even though god is omnipresent and omniscient, and he knew from day 1 that Adam and Eve would do the deed and that Jesus would die on the cross because of our sin, we are still have free will to sin, because god doesn't exist within time.


That doesn't answer the of "free will" vs. "god already knows" question for me, but that's not what the OP is asking. Typical NuT tactic, twist, distract, derail then repeat.



posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 10:12 PM
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Originally posted by Hydroman

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
First of all, the Law was fulfilled in Christ.

So it no longer applies?


It was fulfilled in Christ. Ask someone who practice Judaism.



Originally posted by NOTurTypical
Secondly, as a father I didn't have to let my daughter marry him under Mosaic Law. (Exodus 22:16-17) I'd ask her, if she wanted him to provide for her and the child and I'd let her make up her own choice, she was forbidden to marry another man after that since she wasn't a virgin. If she didn't want to I'd take care of her for life on the family estate. I'd let her choose which she was free to do.


What if you got raped by a man?


There wouldn't be a choice in Judaism, the man would be stoned to death. Cant marry a dead man.


Why wouldn't you let your daughter marry someone she loved?


I didn't say that. I said her not being a virgin would make it impossible for her to marry in that system. Back in that time and age men didn't marry non-virgins, they would usually have to live as a whore the rest of their life. I'd rather provided for her and her son than see her have to do that for survival.


What's wrong with you?


Why are you judging me? You're very ignorant to that culture and mindset, that's not my fault, I'm attempting to educate you some. If you wish to remain ignorant I can leave.

Society shunned a woman who wasn't a virgin in that day.


edit on 12-4-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 10:13 PM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by Hydroman
 

How did we get on this anyway?

He was saying sacrifice is OK because God exists outside of time.


I never said that.



posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 10:14 PM
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Originally posted by Hydroman

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
No, it appears time has passed, it's an illusion. It appears to you time has passed, in reality of reality of absolute realities (which is an illusion too, we live in a digital simulation, Planck's Lenth) it has not, it's an illusion. You are tricked into thinking time has passed because you are bound in the 4th dimension and exist in 10.

That's the only other way I can try and explain it.
Are you saying that I'm lying in a vat of pink goo and robots are using my bio electrical energy to power themselves?


Do not mock me because of your extreme ignorance to Physics.



posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 10:15 PM
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Well, considering that YHWH taught Abraham and his decendants how to sacrifice the animals he created to pay for their blood debt, yes it was once moral because it was the only way men could pay their sin debts.

In regards to the jewish rituals, basically you take an innocent clean animal like a lamb, ram or goat and sacrifice it and the shedding of it's blood covers your sins for the day from you, and it takes your sins onto itself and it takes your place in sheol, also called a scape goat sacrifice and this ritual was a prophetic action prophecying Christ taking our sins onto himself, but unlike the sacrificial lamb, goat or ram God didn't stay dead. His body died and he resurrected himself because death couldn't keep him.
edit on 12-4-2012 by lonewolf19792000 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 10:16 PM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 

Dude, don't even bother, 9.9 times out of 10 when he says a word isn't in the Bible you can guarantee there are a minimum of 4 places it exists there.
What you do is find another word and redefine it, then say it means the same thing through some twisted logic.


No, I usually go to Blue Letter Bible, search for all the instances that word appears, post it, then you never respond.

Just like in this thread where you said the Bible doesn't say that God exists in eternity. And two people showed you the opposite.



posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 10:18 PM
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Originally posted by Hydroman

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
Are you Goggling evilbible.com? That site has been debuked 15 ways to Sunday dude.
No sir, I don't know if I've ever visited that site. These thoughts are coming from my own evil brain. Did the holy spirit tell you that I was visiting that site or something? Please say yes.


No, it's generally the default site that's linked where these silly arguments come from.



posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 10:19 PM
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reply to post by Hydroman
 



IMO, if you murder someone, you committed something immoral.


And in another society people will eat other people for dinner. So what are you basing your moral judgments on?



posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 10:19 PM
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Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
Well, considering that YHWH taught Abraham and his decendants how to sacrifice the animals he created to pay for their blood debt, yes it was once moral because it was the only way men could pay their sin debts.



So, was it moral because god said so, or god says so because it's a moral thing to do? Maybe it was just a superstitious ritual carried over from a belief of appeasing the gods for healthy crops, weather and prosperity.
edit on 12-4-2012 by windword because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 10:22 PM
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Originally posted by windword

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by Hydroman
 

How did we get on this anyway?

He was saying sacrifice is OK because God exists outside of time.


He's trying to say that even though god is omnipresent and omniscient, and he knew from day 1 that Adam and Eve would do the deed and that Jesus would die on the cross because of our sin, we are still have free will to sin, because god doesn't exist within time.


It's the nature of time again. The Bible prophesied Jesus would be betrayed for 30 pieces of silver, does that make Judas innocent, just fate playing out he couldn't control?


That doesn't answer the of "free will" vs. "god already knows" question for me, but that's not what the OP is asking. Typical NuT tactic, twist, distract, derail then repeat.


It's free will from our perspective, predestinated from God's. Don't mock me either because you don't understand Physics.



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