Major solar event coinciding with quakes

The sun has sprung from a couple rather quiet days to a huge spike in activity. And almost at the same time we've got some major earthquakes in various areas of the globe.

This CME is quite an impressive lil fella:



More about it on SolarImg

The CME was not earth directed, and not associated with a flare, as you can see here and here

Also very telling the ionospheric delay today, these are basically local fluctuations in the earths ionosphere, it's quite complex and I am not fully understanding it myself, but the location of the delays is quite a coincidence as well.




Bigger version here

However, the author of SolarImg does see a connection between the sudden outburst of solar activity and the global earthquakes we're experiencing right now.

I think he's on to something. And this has also been pointed out in threads on ATS and elsewhere already. I think the science is not fully understood, and that we might be missing a major factor in the whole sun earth relationship equation. And the Electric Universe guy comes to my mind, who says that cosmology does think gravitation is the main force shaping the universe, while he claims it's electric forces that shape it, not gravitation.

What do you say ATS ? Is this all just a coincidence, or is there a direct correlation between solar activity and earthquakes ? Could electric forces instead of gravity influence the earth much more then currently assumed ?

gulp!

Coincidence.

Solar activity is sporadic, as are quakes. There is ZERO correlation between the two.

No.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Do we really have to rehash all this again every couple of months?

Major solar event coinciding with quakes

According to so many here, the answer is no, but the correlations from this year and last keep lining up. I am not 100% in support of the idea that no, there is no relation, and here is an interesting article on the issue. It is very scientific and I hope some of our more scientific minds can address it.

Received in revised form 14 September
2010
The universal character of the dynamics of various extreme phenomena is an outstanding
scientific challenge. We show that X-ray flux and Dst time series during powerful solar
flares and intense magnetic storms, respectively, obey a nonextensive energy distribution
function for earthquake dynamics with similar values for the Tsallis entropic index q. Thus,
evidence for universality in solar flares, magnetic storms and earthquakes arise naturally in
the framework of Tsallis statistical mechanics. The observed similarity suggests a common
approach to the interpretation of these diverse phenomena in terms of driving physical
mechanisms that have the same character.

members.noa.gr...

ETA: I just invited Phage over to check this article out too. Could it mean that if you break everything down far enough, we find it all connected and therefore there could be some correlation? Or is that a weak premise?

That is a pretty big flash on the upper half of that image. Interesting.

Originally posted by H1ght3chHippie
I think the science is not fully understood

Science is as much understood as any other religion.

Originally posted by underduck
Do we really have to rehash all this again every couple of months?

Yes.

Yes we do.

Without the endless solar flare-earthquake correlation threads, "scale of the universe" threads, and "hey guys, check out this amazing 500 TB image of space that I'm sure nobody has posted about before!" threads, what else would be there to keep us entertained until the end of 2012?

Originally posted by SonicInfinity

Originally posted by underduck
Do we really have to rehash all this again every couple of months?

Yes.

Yes we do.

Without the endless solar flare-earthquake correlation threads, "scale of the universe" threads, and "hey guys, check out this amazing 500 TB image of space that I'm sure nobody has posted about before!" threads, what else would be there to keep us entertained until the end of 2012?

Good point. If I were to start to point out all the rehashing debates, photos/videos covered many times before and duplicate threads then we would have a pretty empty website to come to. Carry on ... I hope you guys all come to a different conclusion this time

While I'm prepared to believe the sun affects the earth far more than most people want to admit I also am convinced the the Sun/Earthquake storys are a distraction. We should be looking closer at the Fracking thats taking place all over the world. Think about it!!

This CME is quite an impressive lil fella:

Not impressive at all actually. Certainly not "major".

It's also sort of hard to correlate with the large earthquakes since the CME occurred well after they did.

Also very telling the ionospheric delay today, these are basically local fluctuations in the earths ionosphere, it's quite complex and I am not fully understanding it myself, but the location of the delays is quite a coincidence as well.

Right. It's no coincidence. TEC is greatest at local noon. Just like it usually is. It's caused by increased ionization by sunlight.
www.windows2universe.org...

reply to post by SonicInfinity


I pointed out is that there has been no flare. There are no peaks in the GOES X-ray monitor ( I provided a link ) and also EVE is dark and doesn't show anything, so this was a huge event that produced a major electron burst, and even though it was not earth directed at any way, it produced major disturbances in the earths electro magnetic field, as seen here and here

I'm trying to merge the theory of the electric universe with how the sun influences our planet, especially the tectonic activity, and the main question I'm asking is, whether there might be a not yet understood force that forms a direct correlation between solar and earth events. Gravity can not play a role here.

I can not remember that this has been discussed in detail in its own thread yet, so excuse me if it has and if it bores you. Don't read the thread then, duh ?

reply to post by speculativeoptimist

That article is not proposing a link between solar activity, geomagnetic activity, and earthquakes, it is proposing that certain similarities in the behavior of each may make it possible to apply statistical prediction (Tsallis distributions) methods.

The observed similarity suggests a common approach to the interpretation of these diverse phenomena in terms of driving physical mechanisms that have the same character.

members.noa.gr...

reply to post by Phage

Thank you. Now by having similarities in behavior and attempting to apply statistical predictions, does that not by definition support some correlation between the 3 factors,under the umbrella of universality, or universe statistical behavior?

In Ref. [5] the similarities of multiple fracturing on a neutron star and on the Earth were explored, including power-law
energy distributions based on the empirical relationship given by Gutenberg and Richter [17] for earthquakes. Sornette and
Helmstetter [3] introduced a new kind of critical stochastic finite-time singularity and illustrated that this type of singularity
occurs in epidemic models of rupture, earthquakes and starquakes associated with neutron stars. de Arcangelis et al. [6]
showed that the same empirical laws widely accepted in seismology also characterize, surprisingly, the size and time
occurrence of solar flares.

As above so below?

Solar corona, Earth’s magnetosphere and lithosphere can be considered as externally driven input–output systems

This sounds like they are related in cause and effect, to some degree.

Originally posted by Phage

Right. It's no coincidence. TEC is greatest at local noon. Just like it usually is. It's caused by increased ionization by sunlight.

Could we be a bit more specific here please ? "Sunlight" isn't really detailed, let's agree on photons, shall we ? Okay, so photons do have an impact on the Ionospheric delay, and at "Noon" you say it is the greatest. I really do wonder why there are major fluctuations in the delay then, since according to your theory it should always be the same, caused by the intensity of the photons impacting the ionosphere, always at highest intensity around noon.

So basically, you'd have a circular spot, right at the equator, and it would wander with the time zones once around the world in 24 hours. Well let me tell you that it does not. So much to the "sunlight" theory. They would hardly monitor it when it was that predictable and insignificant. Why bother.

I'm agreeing with you that photons do indeed have an impact on the Ionosphere, sure they do. But how about electrons ? These too ? How about Protons and Neutrinos ? Maybe as well ? Is that fully understood ? No it's not.

We haven't even figured out what light is yet. Is it wave or particle ? A bit of both ? We don't even understand basic concepts but act as if we had it all figured out, refusing to look at new possibilities, stopping to search for the unknown. And your post is a prime example that condenses all the arrogance of our current "scientific elite" into one simple forum post. If this forum had been active around 1500 A.D. already, we could look up old posts from you where you'd tell us the earth is flat because that's the scientific point of view around 1500 A.D. I bet !! I'll give you a star for that.

Some people really think they've got it all figured out. I'm still wondering whether some of them are highly paid scientists with a plethora of PhD's and multiple university diplomas, trying to beat some sense into the uneducated masses via an internet forum, or if they're someone still living with their Moms, reading the interwebz 16 hours a day.

reply to post by H1ght3chHippie

it produced major disturbances in the earths electro magnetic field, as seen here and here

Your first link is to data from the ACE satellite. The ACE satellite is located about 1 million miles from Earth and has nothing to do with Earth's "electro magnetic field". It measures the solar wind. In the case of the data you linked, the magnetic field of the solar wind. It doesn't really show anything out of the ordinary, just the expected arrival of the high speed solar wind from the coronal holes which were facing Earth a couple of days ago.

Your second link does show the effects of the solar wind on the Earth's magnetic field (specifically in various locations in Canada). It can be seen that when the Bz component of the solar wind (as seen in the ACE data) turns south, geomagnetic activity increases. This is normal behavior for this sort of solar wind regime.

reply to post by speculativeoptimist

Just because things behave in statistically similar ways it does not mean there are causal relationships. It means that the same means may be used to analyze the processes involved. You selected a good portion of the paper (regarding input-output) but read it more carefully. It does not say (or imply) that one influences the other. It is describing why neither the magnetosphere or lithosphere can be at equilibrium (apparently an important feature in the use of Tsallis theory). It says that just as the magnetosphere is affected by the solar wind, the lithosphere is affected by stresses produced by the movement of tectonic plates. Similarly, the activity of the solar corona is driven by magnetic forces originating from the solar surface.

Later a clear distinction is made between solar activity and earthquake activity. Note that a "q value" is a quantity arrived at through Tsallis analysis.

Lithospheric stress, on the other hand, is increased when tectonic plates move against each other. When the stress is large enough, the crust is forced to break. Furthermore, the observation that solar flares and magnetic storms have almost identical q values can be attributed to the fact that both solar flares and magnetic storms are driven by solar activity.

members.noa.gr...

reply to post by H1ght3chHippie

We don't even understand basic concepts but act as if we had it all figured out, refusing to look at new possibilities, stopping to search for the unknown.

Not many act as if it was all figured out. If that was the case there would not be so many scientists working in so many different fields. If that were the case, CERN would not be there. But just because we don't know everything does not mean we don't know anything.

f this forum had been active around 1500 A.D. already, we could look up old posts from you where you'd tell us the earth is flat because that's the scientific point of view around 1500 A.D. I bet !!

And you would lose the bet. In 1500 A.D. only a few of the uneducated would have believed the Earth was flat.

Originally posted by DaTroof
Coincidence.

Solar activity is sporadic, as are quakes. There is ZERO correlation between the two.

This.........is who I share this planet with?
Pitiful. Just pathetic.

There has been every indication that earthquakes are related to solar activity as is the magnetosphere.
Where exactly is your cave located?

Solar activity as a triggering mechanism for earthquakes

Solar activity, as indicated by sunspots, radio noise and geomagnetic indices, plays a significant but by no means exclusive role in the triggering of earthquakes. Maximum quake frequency occurs at times of moderately high and fluctuating solar activity. Terrestrial solar flare effects which are the actual coupling mechanisms which trigger quakes appear to be either abrupt accelerations in the earth's angular velocity or surges of telluric currents in the earth's crust. The graphs presented in this paper permit probabilistic forecasting of earthquakes, and when used in conjunction with local indicators may provide a significant tool for specific earthquake prediction.

adsabs.harvard.edu...

reply to post by Phage

Thanks for the reply and eduction Phage, I appreciate it.

spec