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Loud bang across UK - MOD investigates.

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posted on Apr, 13 2012 @ 10:34 AM
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Originally posted by JakiusFogg
I don't know if this has been mentioned earlier I have not read all posts. However, why was a Miltary jet going supersonic to respond to an "emergency call" when supersonic transition is NOT PERMITTED by the CAA over land for this reason. it is only allowed out at sea.

So the real question is what was so important that required this pilot to circumvent the regulations by going supersonic over land????? that I feel is a much more interesting question!


The reports from the MOD are that clearance was given for supersonic, and the QRA team is based at Lincs. The QRA are the team for fast action response however the helicopter pilot error doesn't add as the purpose for the escalation from air traffic control London to QRA, this should have been dealt with by other response units first as it was an obvious error which occur often.

There are thousands of flights over the UK, many congested flight paths and there aren't supersonic responses to other pilot errors.

The QRA would only give clearance for supersonic for something more than this pilot error, it would have to be checked before clearance, just like any other emergency service, resources are monitored and these jets are being canibalised just to keep an active fleet. It costs around £70k per hour for one of these jets to run and the very nature of the RAF is to keep a keen eye to possible distractions so more than likely this QRA response was for MORE than a pilot error.

The fact there are witnesses reporting a ''rocket shaped object'' that one of the typhoons was concerned with until it went vertical out of sight, is something that could have been of relevant importance for such a QRA response. For example if it was detected on radar, multiple sightings, determination as something other than such things as weather balloons and a potential threat.
edit on 13-4-2012 by theabsolutetruth because: (no reason given)




posted on Apr, 13 2012 @ 10:45 AM
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Originally posted by blupblup
reply to post by nake13
 




Fair enough I guess, makes sense.
I understand not all jets are on permanent standby, but there are lots and lots of bases around this area (Oxfordshire) and also surrounding counties, just seems if there was "Trouble in Bath" why break the sound barrier and make such a racket when It's not necessary?

There was no need to come that far and have to get permission for something which was outlawed... creating sonic booms etc.



I just don't buy it to be honest.


We've heard nothing of the chopper or its pilot.....people are just happy to accept what the MOD have said.


I'm usually very sceptical and don't often get too involved in these threads.... there's just something about this that doesn't sit right, not only with me, but many people it seems.




Fair point,however,there are no fighter stations in Oxfordshire the bases in the area such as Brize Norton are primarily those of Transport Command,plus Conningsby is not too far from Bath even for a subsonically travelling Typhoon,but as you say,why it was deemed necessary for the fighters to go supersonic is not consistent with the original explanation,something must have been sighted that was deemed to be a very real threat,either that or an aircraft such as aurora was in trouble and the Typhoons were scrambled to "take care" of the situation should it have shown any signs of crashing and leaving identifiable pieces of wreckage.



posted on Apr, 13 2012 @ 11:01 AM
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reply to post by nake13
 




Exactly... I'm not saying it's paranormal and something strange.... I just think they're not being honest.
Perhaps there was a real threat or some sort of possible attack?


I dunno.

Hopefully other people saw something or perhaps someone will leak the radio conversation between the pilots and command?

Who knows I guess.



posted on Apr, 13 2012 @ 02:26 PM
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reply to post by blupblup
 


I am going to bet Russian long range bomber bouncing off the fringes of the radar AGAIN!

2nd



posted on Apr, 13 2012 @ 02:35 PM
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Originally posted by theabsolutetruth

Originally posted by JakiusFogg
I don't know if this has been mentioned earlier I have not read all posts. However, why was a Miltary jet going supersonic to respond to an "emergency call" when supersonic transition is NOT PERMITTED by the CAA over land for this reason. it is only allowed out at sea.

So the real question is what was so important that required this pilot to circumvent the regulations by going supersonic over land????? that I feel is a much more interesting question!


The reports from the MOD are that clearance was given for supersonic, and the QRA team is based at Lincs. The QRA are the team for fast action response however the helicopter pilot error doesn't add as the purpose for the escalation from air traffic control London to QRA, this should have been dealt with by other response units first as it was an obvious error which occur often.

There are thousands of flights over the UK, many congested flight paths and there aren't supersonic responses to other pilot errors.

The QRA would only give clearance for supersonic for something more than this pilot error, it would have to be checked before clearance, just like any other emergency service, resources are monitored and these jets are being canibalised just to keep an active fleet. It costs around £70k per hour for one of these jets to run and the very nature of the RAF is to keep a keen eye to possible distractions so more than likely this QRA response was for MORE than a pilot error.

The fact there are witnesses reporting a ''rocket shaped object'' that one of the typhoons was concerned with until it went vertical out of sight, is something that could have been of relevant importance for such a QRA response. For example if it was detected on radar, multiple sightings, determination as something other than such things as weather balloons and a potential threat.
edit on 13-4-2012 by theabsolutetruth because: (no reason given)


No. If an aircraft is squawking that code the response is an armed fighter that gets there as fast as possible.

The purpose is not to 'render assistance' theres none that can be rendered if its a real hijack.

The purpose is to destroy it if its deemed a threat to the public.

There are no other options to provide that capability except fighter jets.

It all adds up completely folks.



posted on Apr, 13 2012 @ 03:25 PM
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Originally posted by justwokeup

Originally posted by theabsolutetruth

Originally posted by JakiusFogg
I don't know if this has been mentioned earlier I have not read all posts. However, why was a Miltary jet going supersonic to respond to an "emergency call" when supersonic transition is NOT PERMITTED by the CAA over land for this reason. it is only allowed out at sea.

So the real question is what was so important that required this pilot to circumvent the regulations by going supersonic over land????? that I feel is a much more interesting question!


The reports from the MOD are that clearance was given for supersonic, and the QRA team is based at Lincs. The QRA are the team for fast action response however the helicopter pilot error doesn't add as the purpose for the escalation from air traffic control London to QRA, this should have been dealt with by other response units first as it was an obvious error which occur often.

There are thousands of flights over the UK, many congested flight paths and there aren't supersonic responses to other pilot errors.

The QRA would only give clearance for supersonic for something more than this pilot error, it would have to be checked before clearance, just like any other emergency service, resources are monitored and these jets are being canibalised just to keep an active fleet. It costs around £70k per hour for one of these jets to run and the very nature of the RAF is to keep a keen eye to possible distractions so more than likely this QRA response was for MORE than a pilot error.

The fact there are witnesses reporting a ''rocket shaped object'' that one of the typhoons was concerned with until it went vertical out of sight, is something that could have been of relevant importance for such a QRA response. For example if it was detected on radar, multiple sightings, determination as something other than such things as weather balloons and a potential threat.
edit on 13-4-2012 by theabsolutetruth because: (no reason given)


No. If an aircraft is squawking that code the response is an armed fighter that gets there as fast as possible.

The purpose is not to 'render assistance' theres none that can be rendered if its a real hijack.

The purpose is to destroy it if its deemed a threat to the public.

There are no other options to provide that capability except fighter jets.

It all adds up completely folks.


What doesn't add up are the reports of people seeing a silver rocket shaped object which the second Typhoon was investigating.This makes it look as though the helicopter were a distraction rom the real reason for the Typhoons being there.



posted on Apr, 13 2012 @ 03:28 PM
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Originally posted by mr-lizard
Anyone got any info on the actual helicopter and pilot?

Also what type of 'warning' was it?

I've heard it was a radio frequency - if people can monitor the radio chatter of the scrambled jets, then what about the helicopter and the emergency frequency?



The helicopter was an ex-military Westland Gazelle. Retired from the military and converted for civilian use. Registration G-IBNH. Westland Gazelle HT2 ex military serial XW853.

See following link for picture.

www.planepictures.net...

Picture of Typhoon and Gazelle helicopter at following link.

www.dailymail.co.uk...

The signal from the helicopter is transmitted from the transponder after interrogation from the ATC radar.

See following.

en.wikipedia.org...

Scroll down to Aviation and click on Transponder Aviation link

Note Transponder Codes and Emergency Codes?

www.mod.uk...


Two RAF Typhoons were launched yesterday evening to intercept an aircraft that was transmitting an emergency signal and could not be identified via radio. The RAF jets are part of the Quick Reaction Alert (QRA) force which has Typhoon fighter aircraft and crews held at continuous ground-readiness, 24-hours-a-day, seven-days-a-week, at RAF Coningsby in Lincolnshire, and at RAF Leuchars in Fife. The QRA force's purpose is to identify any aircraft approaching or within national airspace without prior approval or not having identified themselves and which cannot be identified by any other means, i.e. the aircraft is not talking to civilian or military Air Traffic Control, has not filed a flight plan and is not transmitting a recognisable secondary surveillance radar code. QRA aircraft can take off within minutes to protect UK sovereign airspace. Last night, two QRA Typhoons were scrambled from RAF Coningsby when a small civilian aircraft was transmitting inadvertently on an emergency frequency and was out of radio communication with Air Traffic Control. Authorisation was given for one of the Typhoons to transit at supersonic speed over land, which resulted in the sonic boom heard by the public. The Typhoons intercepted a civilian Gazelle helicopter in the vicinity of Bristol, and, after identification, the helicopter successfully re-established communications with Air Traffic Control. The reason for the emergency signal and communications failure is yet to be determined. The MOD will be providing all available information on the intercept to the Department for Transport who will lead on the investigation process in order to complete any follow-up action if considered appropriate, and to also try and reduce the chance of any repetition of this type of incident. Deterrence is a key part of our Quick Reaction Alert posture. The RAF's air defence capability to detect and deter aircraft approaching UK sovereign airspace is just one aspect of a multilayered approach that the UK Government takes to protect UK and NATO-monitored airspace.



posted on Apr, 13 2012 @ 04:39 PM
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Originally posted by theabsolutetruth
reply to post by tommyjo
 


The quote in the Telegraph from the MOD is ''idiot pilot'' and how many errors do you think London ATC has to respond to daily?

Do you think this is the ONLY QRA response? If so wouldn't you think this odd? If not then aren't those other responses also supersonic? If not do you think this is odd? If so do you not think people would hear them? If so then wouldn't you think people would be used to their sound already?

These are very obvious questions.

Funny how some just believe an ''intercepted transmission'' on a flight enthusiast forum.


Ask yourself how many errors result in the pilot selecting the hijack code? That is what caused the reaction.

www.mod.uk...


Last night, two QRA Typhoons were scrambled from RAF Coningsby when a small civilian aircraft was transmitting inadvertently on an emergency frequency and was out of radio communication with Air Traffic Control. Authorisation was given for one of the Typhoons to transit at supersonic speed over land, which resulted in the sonic boom heard by the public. The Typhoons intercepted a civilian Gazelle helicopter in the vicinity of Bristol, and, after identification, the helicopter successfully re-established communications with Air Traffic Control. The reason for the emergency signal and communications failure is yet to be determined.


Again you fail to grasp that not every QRA is conducted at supersonic speeds. Why is that so hard to understand or comprehend? If the controller deems it necessary then permission will be granted for this to take place. That is why one of the Typhoon was given permission in order to get to the location as quickly as possible. The Contoller in this case call sign Blackcat deemed the emergency to warrant a supersonic dash from one of the Typhoons.

I can tell by your reaction to the 'intercepted communications' that you are a die-hard conspiracy theorist. Quite laughable as more than one person noted and listened into the communications. The communications are not encrypted and in the open due to the fact that they have to liase with civilian ATC. Join Fighter Control and ask questions and try and comprehend the hobby of military and civilian radio monitoring. Join the website and see the historical monitoring of QRA scrambles. Obviously it will fall on deaf ears? Not everything is a conspiracy theory!

One of the enthusiast at RAF Coningsbyy witnessed the departure of the first RAF Typhoon and commented on the fact of how rapidly it departed. From Fighter Control.

'I witnessed the first of the QRA typhoons departing at coningsby just prior to that incident and the first one was really shifting full burners and was really going for it! So if the sound barrier went it doesnt suprise me'
edit on 13-4-2012 by tommyjo because: Additional info added



posted on Apr, 13 2012 @ 05:04 PM
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reply to post by tommyjo
 


Spouting the same thing about how the QRA operates is just wasting my time.

I know how QRA operates and the fact it was deployed and the sonic boom, this isn't being disputed.

The thing in dispute is that for a pilot error, which happen, the London ATC would have specific procedure to follow before requesting QRA.

QRA would not deploy and agree to supersonic unless it was known that it was more than a pilot error.

Perhaps the pilot was broadcasting on this frequency because of interference / fear of threat from the ''rocket shaped object'' one of the typhoons concentrated on.

So, again to summarise, we don't need a textbook lecture about the role of QRA , how sonic booms happen, or how a radio enthusiast forum recorded a transmission. These aren't being disputed.

The facts are plain (no pun intended) as day, there was something else the jets were concentrating on, people recorded it, it was even reported on the news, and the fact this hasn't happened before where QRA needed to travel supersonic in response to ATC incidents, shaking the land in many counties.

Most people are able to comprehend how the varying media reports and the known facts require more answers.

Here's a question for you, do you think the ''rocket shaped object'' that the typhoon was concentrating on matters in all of this?

edit on 13-4-2012 by theabsolutetruth because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 13 2012 @ 05:10 PM
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Originally posted by nake13

Originally posted by justwokeup

Originally posted by theabsolutetruth

Originally posted by JakiusFogg
I don't know if this has been mentioned earlier I have not read all posts. However, why was a Miltary jet going supersonic to respond to an "emergency call" when supersonic transition is NOT PERMITTED by the CAA over land for this reason. it is only allowed out at sea.

So the real question is what was so important that required this pilot to circumvent the regulations by going supersonic over land????? that I feel is a much more interesting question!


The reports from the MOD are that clearance was given for supersonic, and the QRA team is based at Lincs. The QRA are the team for fast action response however the helicopter pilot error doesn't add as the purpose for the escalation from air traffic control London to QRA, this should have been dealt with by other response units first as it was an obvious error which occur often.

There are thousands of flights over the UK, many congested flight paths and there aren't supersonic responses to other pilot errors.

The QRA would only give clearance for supersonic for something more than this pilot error, it would have to be checked before clearance, just like any other emergency service, resources are monitored and these jets are being canibalised just to keep an active fleet. It costs around £70k per hour for one of these jets to run and the very nature of the RAF is to keep a keen eye to possible distractions so more than likely this QRA response was for MORE than a pilot error.

The fact there are witnesses reporting a ''rocket shaped object'' that one of the typhoons was concerned with until it went vertical out of sight, is something that could have been of relevant importance for such a QRA response. For example if it was detected on radar, multiple sightings, determination as something other than such things as weather balloons and a potential threat.
edit on 13-4-2012 by theabsolutetruth because: (no reason given)


No. If an aircraft is squawking that code the response is an armed fighter that gets there as fast as possible.

The purpose is not to 'render assistance' theres none that can be rendered if its a real hijack.

The purpose is to destroy it if its deemed a threat to the public.

There are no other options to provide that capability except fighter jets.

It all adds up completely folks.


What doesn't add up are the reports of people seeing a silver rocket shaped object which the second Typhoon was investigating.This makes it look as though the helicopter were a distraction rom the real reason for the Typhoons being there.


It certainly does, especially seeing as it was an ex service helicopter.



posted on Apr, 13 2012 @ 05:22 PM
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edit on 13-4-2012 by nake13 because: misread response to earlier post



posted on Apr, 13 2012 @ 05:28 PM
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Originally posted by pot8er
reply to post by tommyjo
 


Hi there. I have a quick question for you. I'm going to play devils advocate here and step into the fantastical.

If the MOD knows that all their radio chatter is being listened to by the public and quite possibly foreign military, wouldn't it be possible, that they could use encrypted channels to communicate whilst still maintaining ' cover stories' on the regular channels ?

It seems ludicrous to me that a fair few million quids worth of military assets are entirely wide open to anyone who wants to tune into them.

There's room for conspiracy in this issue surely ?



The communications are conducted in the clear due to the fact that the participants have to communicate with civilian Air Traffic Control. The QRA aircraft in this instance has to cross over extremely busy ATC regions and air routes to get to the area. The clearance is all coordinated with civilian ATC liasing with the military control. There is absolutely no requirement in a scramble for a civilian aircraft emergency to utilise secure speech.

Note the portions relating to military callsigns in order to liase and interact.

www.caa.co.uk...

Even the QRA alert scrambles for Russian aircraft are conducted in the main with clear communications. That includes the scramble of the air-refuelling tankers and their transit to the refuelling areas. The communications and intercept can also be heard in clear communications. Obviously in a wartime scenario or training for a wartime role then secure speech would be enforced with very little clear communications.

The following is a NATO scramble of two Dutch Air Force F-16s against two Russian Air Force Tu-95MS Bear Hs over the North Sea on 24th Nov 09. Intercepted and recorded by radio enthusiasts in Europe.

www.milspotters.nl...

In addition to the NATO QRA the radio enthusiasts also monitored the clear communications from the two Tu-95MS Bears during the interception.

05:46 is the portion of the audio where the Russians can be first heard.

09:14 onwards you can hear the aircrew on the Bears chat about the RAF QRA Tornado

Link to image from the intercept on the 24th Nov 2009.

www.milspotters.nl...



posted on Apr, 13 2012 @ 06:01 PM
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Originally posted by JakiusFogg
I don't know if this has been mentioned earlier I have not read all posts. However, why was a Miltary jet going supersonic to respond to an "emergency call" when supersonic transition is NOT PERMITTED by the CAA over land for this reason. it is only allowed out at sea.

So the real question is what was so important that required this pilot to circumvent the regulations by going supersonic over land????? that I feel is a much more interesting question!


In an emergency situation it is permitted. If the military controller deems it necessary then it is permitted. The CAA have no say in the matter as it is a national urgency to react to the threat and the military controller has priority. In this case the Blackcat military controller authorised the supersonic dash of one of the Typhoons involved.



posted on Apr, 13 2012 @ 06:05 PM
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This was very strange. It shook my windows, and there is no explanation so far.

Normally I would chalk it up to camp Pendleton doing their usual business, but this was a county wide phenomenon and the Marines haven't been doing any artillery exercises... I know, I was on the base fishing before the rain came in.

So any way, I was thinking of starting a new thread, but found this one instead. Very strange, and kind of scared me!

10 News SD



posted on Apr, 13 2012 @ 06:14 PM
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Originally posted by blupblup
reply to post by JakiusFogg
 





Exactly man.... what reason was it.
A helicopter in distress? Hmmmmm

I doubt it.


Also why come from a few hundred miles away when there are already jets much closer to the area?



There are no QRA aircraft any closer. You do understand the concept of Quick Reaction Alert and where they are based? The aircraft have to conduct the role fully armed. There are currently only two bases assigned QRA in the UK and both operate Eurofighter Typhoons. RAF Leuchars is Northern QRA in Scotland and RAF Coningsby is Southern QRA in England. Only these two bases in the UK stand alert with fully armed aircraft in order to conduct the Quick Reaction Alert role.

The scramble is in reaction to the transponder code regardless of what type of aircraft it is. It makes no matter if it is a helicopter the reaction is to the transponder code. For the Olympics the Typhoon QRA, to be based at RAF Northolt, will be supplemented by armed helicopters to deal with slow aircraft for example helicopters, light aircraft, etc. Currently there are no other aircraft on QRA duties other than the Typhoons.



posted on Apr, 13 2012 @ 06:55 PM
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Originally posted by theabsolutetruth

The thing in dispute is that for a pilot error, which happen, the London ATC would have specific procedure to follow before requesting QRA.

QRA would not deploy and agree to supersonic unless it was known that it was more than a pilot error.


The procedure is clear. If the transponder on the aircraft is registering an emergency code then the authority is not with the civilian ATC but it goes to the military commander. It really isn't that hard to understand. The rules are set in stone and honed over the years. There is no flapping about and the military controllers once such a emergency signal is detected take control. Do you not think that the emergency code detection would not appear on the screen of the military controller? It is he or she that has the full control in that situation.



Perhaps the pilot was broadcasting on this frequency because of interference / fear of threat from the ''rocket shaped object'' one of the typhoons concentrated on.


Look back at the witnesses to this object. They even claim that it was up at 35,000 feet! Consider that the object is nothing more than a solar balloon in the vicinity and absolutely nothing to do with the incident? A complete coincidence. How often have we seen footage of solar balloons, etc being promoted as evidence of mysterious aerial phenomena? Yes I regard the object as nothing to do with the incident and simply pure coincidence that a solar balloon or similar was noted in the area. You just have to look at You Tube for the near hysteria that solar balloons and similar cause for example in the Mexico UFO flaps over the years. All I see here is die-hard conspiracy theorists putting two and two together and coming up with five.



posted on Apr, 13 2012 @ 07:08 PM
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Originally posted by theabsolutetruth

It certainly does, especially seeing as it was an ex service helicopter.


Oh dear. More conspiracy non-sense.
Only a die-hard conspiracy theorist would come to that conclusion. How did I guess it would be you after I posted the information?


The ex-military Gazelle helicopters on retirement are stripped of all military equipment and conform to CAA regulations. There are inspected by CAA and cleared for civilian use. The fact that it was once operated by military has absolutely nothing to do with the incident. Again, only a die-hard theorist would jump to that conclusion. What conclusion would you jump to if the helicopter pilot had once served in the military? No need I can hear your conspiracy gears working overtime!



posted on Apr, 13 2012 @ 07:33 PM
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Originally posted by tommyjo

Originally posted by theabsolutetruth

It certainly does, especially seeing as it was an ex service helicopter.


Oh dear. More conspiracy non-sense.
Only a die-hard conspiracy theorist would come to that conclusion. How did I guess it would be you after I posted the information?


The ex-military Gazelle helicopters on retirement are stripped of all military equipment and conform to CAA regulations. There are inspected by CAA and cleared for civilian use. The fact that it was once operated by military has absolutely nothing to do with the incident. Again, only a die-hard theorist would jump to that conclusion. What conclusion would you jump to if the helicopter pilot had once served in the military? No need I can hear your conspiracy gears working overtime!



edit on 13-4-2012 by theabsolutetruth because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 13 2012 @ 07:37 PM
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Uh...

Let's stick to the topic and Stop the Personal Sniping , Please.



posted on Apr, 14 2012 @ 12:22 PM
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The Typhoons chased a sockshaped ufo.

Pic of the object here www.thesun.co.uk...



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