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Is purposeless torture moral?

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posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 12:03 PM
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reply to post by sageofmonticello
 


Well, if a man made definition of mythology is gonna stop you from reading Gods written Word,
than

So be it.




posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 12:04 PM
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Originally posted by Iason321
Well, if a man made definition of mythology is gonna stop you from reading Gods written Word,
than

So be it.
Did your god write the bible?



posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 12:04 PM
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reply to post by Hydroman
 


It was breathed by His spirit through His select people



posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 12:06 PM
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Originally posted by Iason321
reply to post by Hydroman
 


It was breathed by His spirit through His select people
When his spirit breathed the resurrection stories in the gospels, why did he breath such different accounts? Which one is the correct account?



posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 12:06 PM
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reply to post by Hydroman
 


Imagine being in a beautiful mansion, instantly, with a mere thought,

or being on top of Everest, or the Matterhorn, with a thought

or out in a beautiful valley in the woods, hunting, or fishing

Or doing whatever you love doing,

For eternity.

Do you not think the God who designed this world, is capable of designing a superior Paradise?



posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 12:07 PM
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reply to post by Hydroman
 


They all convey a consistent message, can you cite specific verses for clarification?



posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 12:08 PM
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Originally posted by Iason321
reply to post by Hydroman
 


Imagine being in a beautiful mansion, instantly, with a mere thought,

or being on top of Everest, or the Matterhorn, with a thought

or out in a beautiful valley in the woods, hunting, or fishing

Or doing whatever you love doing,

For eternity.

Do you not think the God who designed this world, is capable of designing a superior Paradise?
Where did you get this information? I don't remember reading that in "his word." Let me guess, you got it from someone who had an NDE? Anyway, I won't care, I'll be non-existent.



posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 12:09 PM
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Originally posted by Iason321
reply to post by sageofmonticello
 


Well, if a man made definition of mythology is gonna stop you from reading Gods written Word,
than

So be it.


You are making little sense. Where did I say that is what has stopped me from reading the Bible? I haven't read the bible because I have no interest in religion nor any desire to live the way self deluded people tell me too.

Until you talk to god I will take everything you say with a grain of salt. The bible that you read is no more the word of god than any other ancient religious text. Deal with it.



posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 12:10 PM
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Originally posted by Iason321
reply to post by Hydroman
 


They all convey a consistent message, can you cite specific verses for clarification?
Yes, I will. Sure, they give the same message, but different accounts. Why did his spirit breath conflicting accounts? Doesn't make any sense. Brb with conflicting verses.



posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 12:10 PM
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reply to post by Hydroman
 


Never say never,

you're still breathing for a purpose,

how do you know two years from now you will not be a zealous believer in God?

Just pray and seek and look and keep your heart and mind open,

and don't give up hope,

God wants noone to perish



posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 12:11 PM
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reply to post by sageofmonticello
 


I don't have to deal with anything.

You're the one who's been deceived by your own false pride and ego,

I'll pray for you



posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 12:19 PM
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Originally posted by Iason321
They all convey a consistent message, can you cite specific verses for clarification?
John 20:1" The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre. 2. Then she runneth, and cometh to Simon Peter, and to the other disciple, whom Jesus loved, and saith unto them, They have taken away the Lord out of the sepulchre, and we know not where they have laid him."

Mark 16:1"And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him. 2. And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun. 3. And they said among themselves, Who shall roll us away the stone from the door of the sepulchre? 4. And when they looked, they saw that the stone was rolled away: for it was very great. 5. And entering into the sepulchre, they saw a young man sitting on the right side, clothed in a long white garment; and they were affrighted. 6. And he saith unto them, Be not affrighted: Ye seek Jesus of Nazareth, which was crucified: he is risen; he is not here: behold the place where they laid him.
7. But go your way, tell his disciples and Peter that he goeth before you into Galilee: there shall ye see him, as he said unto you. 8. And they went out quickly, and fled from the sepulchre; for they trembled and were amazed: neither said they any thing to any man; for they were afraid."

Ok, now I'm just looking at two of the four books here, and this is right at the beginning of the resurrection story. Which one of these is correct? Did Mary Magdalene see the stone removed then run off and tell Peter and John that someone got his body, or did they go inside and talk to a young man who said to go tell Peter, which they did not do because it says they didn't talk to anyone?

Now look at what Matthew 28: 1-2 says "1 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre. 2 And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it."

So, in the first two examples, they were wondering how they were going to get the stone rolled away, but when they got there it was already rolled away, no mention of an angel sitting on the stone either. But in Matthew, it says there was a great earthquake when they reached the sepulchre and then an angel descended from heaven and rolled the stone from the door. So, did they see the angel roll it away or not? Which is it?

Now read Luke 24: 1-4 and see if you don't see anything that conflicts with the other three accounts. If not, then I don't know what to tell you.
Luke.24
[1] Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them.
[2] And they found the stone rolled away from the sepulchre.
[3] And they entered in, and found not the body of the Lord Jesus.
[4] And it came to pass, as they were much perplexed thereabout, behold, two men stood by them in shining garments:
edit on 12-4-2012 by Hydroman because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 12:20 PM
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reply to post by Iason321
 




I don't have to deal with anything.


That is obvious. The first thing on the list you are not dealing with is reality. You can believe anything you want to and I would be happy to let you but stop trying to pass your beliefs off to other people as facts. Facts are things that can be proven.



You're the one who's been deceived by your own false pride and ego,


Yea, because I am the one here pretending to know facts about the unknowable.


I'll pray for you


Please don't. I would rather you do something constructive to help this world then beg God to solve your problems. If there is a God, I am sure he/she/it has quite enough to deal with. Anyhow, good day to you, this pointless bickering bores me.
edit on 12-4-2012 by sageofmonticello because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 12:23 PM
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reply to post by Hydroman
 


4) Knowing that the Jewish authorities suspected a resurrection conspiracy (Mt 27:62-66), and therefore knowing that the disciples of Jesus would surely be charged with the theft of His body, Peter and John had reason to be very concerned about the situation. Since the Jews had crucified Jesus upon groundless charges, the Apostles had reason to believe their lives were in danger. This being the case, they were likely precautious about the things they had seen at the tomb, and said very little about them. It is certainly the case they were in great fear (Jn 20:19).

5) But Mary remained at the tomb weeping. While there, she saw two angels in the tomb, and then Jesus appeared unto her outside the tomb (Jn 20:11-16). This was the first time heavenly beings were witnessed by a disciple, and it was the first appearance of Jesus after the resurrection (Mk 16:9). Mary attempted to touch Him in an act of worship, but the Lord would not allow this, because He had not yet ascended to the Father (Jn 20:17). Mary then returned and informed others of what she had seen, but they did not believe her (Mk 16:11). They likely assumed her to be delirious with grief.

6) So a party of women who had formerly purposed to visit the tomb after the Sabbath to prepare the body (Lk 23:55,56) continued with their plans notwithstanding the testimony of Mary. This party included Joanna, Salome, Mary the mother of James, Mary Magdalene, and others (Mk 16:1; Lk 24:10). These women, apart from Mary Magdalene, likely had not heard the testimony of Peter or John at this point. It was very early in the day, and therefore possible they had not yet encountered Peter or John, and even if they had, the Apostles might have kept their discovery confidential because of the considerations in point (4).

7) These women arrived at the tomb as it was beginning to dawn (Mt 28:1; Mk 16:2), whereas it was yet dark when Mary made her first journey to the tomb (Jn 20:1). This serves to confirm that the various scriptural accounts relate several trips to the tomb, with at least three involving Mary Magdaline; one by herself; one with the Apostles, and one with the other women.

8) These women discovered the tomb was open, even as Mary had said. After entering the tomb, they saw an angel, who informed them that Jesus had been resurrected, and that Jesus would show Himself to the disciples in Galilee (Mt 28:5-7; Mk 16:5-7). The women also saw two men in shining garments, who corroborated the testimony of the angel, and who reminded the women that Jesus Himself had promised these things (Lk 24:4-8). These two men were possibly Moses and Elijah. Matthew, Mark and Luke recorded this account of the resurrection likely because it was the first discovery involving multiple witnesses, both heavenly and earthly. John recorded the earlier events because one of the purposes of his gospel was to relate events and details that other writers had not considered. Mark's account (Mk 16:1-11) combines those things attested by Matthew, Luke and John.

9) Upon returning from the tomb, the women encountered Jesus, and they held Him by the feet in an act of worship (Mt 28:9). Since Jesus had forbidden this to Mary in the account of John (Jn 20:17), this further confirms that John recorded a different trip to the tomb than Matthew and Luke. Mark recorded both trips.

10) These women then returned to Peter and reported their discovery. Peter, confronted with multiple witnesses of Jesus and heavenly beings at the tomb, rushed to the tomb a second time. This event was recorded by Luke (Lk 24:12), who claimed that Peter ran to the tomb, then stooped and looked in. This contrasts with the event related by John, who claimed that he and Peter both went to the tomb with Mary Magdaline, and that Peter actually entered the tomb. These differences show that different trips were under consideration.

When several professed witnesses to an event all give the same testimony in the same terms, this suggests collaboration is involved. But when several witnesses give different but reconcilable testimony leading to the same conclusion, this constitutes the strongest case for that conclusion. We believe the witnesses to the resurrection gave independent yet reconcilable testimony to that great event. This in conjunction with the testimony of prophecy and personal experience give what we believe to be a convincing case that Jesus was resurrected from the dead.



posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 12:26 PM
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reply to post by sageofmonticello
 


Wow, the sheer audacity you have, the level of close mindedness and narrow world view is mind numbing, to say the least.

Are you by any chance a businessman? Do you make lots of money? You come off as that type....



posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 12:28 PM
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reply to post by Iason321
 

Did you get your information from here? www.pb.org...

Next, did you even read what I posted? Did you see the differences? This was all breathed by the holy spirit, right? Why did he breath different stories? That's what I want to know.

Please go back and read my entire post, I made some edits and added more verses. And, what I posted was just the beginning of the resurrection story.

Doesn't it seem more plausible that these authors simply wrote down what they were told by someone else? The authors of the gospels were not eye witnesses to these events. If they wrote down what they were told by someone else, it was not breathed to them by a holy spirit...
edit on 12-4-2012 by Hydroman because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 12:30 PM
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reply to post by Hydroman
 


Yes, it was a copy paste from that website as it was articulated by them a little better than I could provide off the top of my head.

And what's wrong with that explanation? Did you read it?

When several professed witnesses to an event all give the same testimony in the same terms, this suggests collaboration is involved. But when several witnesses give different but reconcilable testimony leading to the same conclusion, this constitutes the strongest case for that conclusion. We believe the witnesses to the resurrection gave independent yet reconcilable testimony to that great event. This in conjunction with the testimony of prophecy and personal experience give what we believe to be a convincing case that Jesus was resurrected from the dead.



posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 12:32 PM
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Originally posted by Iason321
When several professed witnesses to an event all give the same testimony in the same terms, this suggests collaboration is involved. But when several witnesses give different but reconcilable testimony leading to the same conclusion, this constitutes the strongest case for that conclusion. We believe the witnesses to the resurrection gave independent yet reconcilable testimony to that great event. This in conjunction with the testimony of prophecy and personal experience give what we believe to be a convincing case that Jesus was resurrected from the dead.
And this shows that it was breathed by a holy spirit how?


edit on 12-4-2012 by Hydroman because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 12:33 PM
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Hydroman, you gotta God given mind and a computer, why do I have to do the research for you?

www.nairaland.com...

www.tektonics.org...

www.rationalchristianity.net...


I hope you gotta few minutes and your reading glasses on.



posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 12:33 PM
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reply to post by Hydroman
 


Because it testifies to the Divine Christ,

now go read the links I just posted.



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