9-11 The blue & red pill of the Matrix { a comparison}

Originally posted by pupetmaster
reply to post by hooper

 

Don't mind Hopper, He posts all day (weekdays) in 9-11 threads and seems to derail most threads unless they are PRO-official story. I asked him what he does for a living which he refused to answer. My guess is, paid blogger.

Oh, I get it now. This is the same circular logic games the conspiracy theorists always have to rely on to justify their unworkable accusations- 9/11 was staged by armies of sinister secret agents, and the reason why we don't know it is because armies of sinister secret agents are working to cover everything up. The only people pushing the OS are sinister secret agents, so since Hooper is pushing the OS it means he must be a sinister secret agent, because only sinister secret agents push the OS and try to cover up the fact that 9/11 was staged by sinister secret agents. You've built for yourself an entire library of conspiracies, secret plots, and coverups for yourself, all without even a microbe of tangible proof to back any of it up.

In case it hasn't occurred to you...and it apparently hasn't...the same circular logic applied to conspiracy theorists, too- only crackpots would ever believe in these 9/11 conspiracy theories, and since you're pushing 9/11 conspiracies it therefore proves you're a crackpot, because you can't deny you're pushing 9/11 conspiracy theories and only crackpots would ever believe in 9/11 conspiracy theories. I stay away from such flawed reasoning because this isn't proof of anything- all this is, is repeating the exact same accusation in different terms in order to prove itself. Such bad logic is the reason why arguments based upon circular logic are intellectually bankrupt. At least when I say the only reason that people who are pushing these 9/11 conspiracies are simply being suckered by the con artists behind those damned fool conspiracy websites, I'm not basing it upon circular logic. I'm basing it upon the observation that every third post here is from someone saying "go read David Ray Griffin" or "go watch Loose Change" or "go listen to Alex Jones" or "go onto Richard Gage's website."

You'll therefore need to forgive me when I say that the moment any of you conspiracy theorists need to rely on this pitiful "armies of sinister secret agents" excuse to prop up your conspiracy claims, it's the moment you're all but admitting you're simply making horse [censored] up to avoid having to admit you're wrong.

Originally posted by GoodOlDave

Originally posted by pupetmaster
reply to post by hooper

 

Oh, I get it now. This is the same circular logic games the conspiracy theorists always have to rely on to justify their unworkable accusations- 9/11 was staged by armies of sinister secret agents, and the reason why we don't know it is because armies of sinister secret agents are working to cover everything up. The only people pushing the OS are sinister secret agents, so since Hooper is pushing the OS it means he must be a sinister secret agent, because only sinister secret agents push the OS and try to cover up the fact that 9/11 was staged by sinister secret agents. You've built for yourself an entire library of conspiracies, secret plots, and coverups for yourself, all without even a microbe of tangible proof to back any of it up.

In case it hasn't occurred to you...and it apparently hasn't...the same circular logic applied to conspiracy theorists, too- only crackpots would ever believe in these 9/11 conspiracy theories, and since you're pushing 9/11 conspiracies it therefore proves you're a crackpot, because you can't deny you're pushing 9/11 conspiracy theories and only crackpots would ever believe in 9/11 conspiracy theories. I stay away from such flawed reasoning because this isn't proof of anything- all this is, is repeating the exact same accusation in different terms in order to prove itself. Such bad logic is the reason why arguments based upon circular logic are intellectually bankrupt. At least when I say the only reason that people who are pushing these 9/11 conspiracies are simply being suckered by the con artists behind those damned fool conspiracy websites, I'm not basing it upon circular logic. I'm basing it upon the observation that every third post here is from someone saying "go read David Ray Griffin" or "go watch Loose Change" or "go listen to Alex Jones" or "go onto Richard Gage's website."

My response

Youre generalizing- no one said that anyone who believes/stands up for the official story is a "sinister secret agent" what I believe he was saying and what i AM saying is that it becomes apparent that there are such things as paid and even fake posters on social networks/forums see this: www.seankerrigan.com...

Back on to the topic: We do not know if it was an inside job as an appropriate investigation was never carried out- and dont say we had a commission that did that, because they have come out on record stating they were not allowed to carry out a full investigation something like 6 out of 10 of them made such statements... And for the BIG ONE WTC7, free fall speeds with eyewitnesses reporting explosions, eyewitnesses mysteriously disappearing: im talking Barry Jennings here. Tell me how can you conclude that there is nothing mysterious about the attacks? Are you so scared to believe that the men in power through government, business, military are willing to attack their own people in order for their own financial gain?? If you bother to respond use FACTS not personal beliefs, or generalized statements. Rant over.

edit on 13-4-2012 by PancakeTheoryNeedsSyrup because: (no reason given)

edit on 13-4-2012 by PancakeTheoryNeedsSyrup because: Im new at this

Red pill.
Blue pill.
Extreme 3 sides to every story.
Your side.
My side.
The truth.
Ok, obscure pop culture references aside, it is a personal observation of mine that whenever there is a heated polarized debate about a subject, it's because someone has created that debate to prevent discussions that might reveal what actually happened.

To pick up the matrix pill symbolism (which was actually stolen from another story about mad hatters, rabbits and little girls not sure if they were asleep or not), what if they are both plaecebo pills, when the real pill, the aspirin that will make the headache go away has been carefully hidden from the choice of options available?

911 was not an inside job, in my opinion.
911 was not a terrorist attack, either, in my opinion.
911 was a strategic millitary strike by a third party, using tech that made the US immediately cut a back room deal and find a patsy, and construct a coverup, knowing that coverup would incite debate, again IN MY OPINION.

The invasions that followed were not retaliation but would have happennd anyway - but having a war on terror agenda was convenient so the 911 incident was used as justification.

Why deliberately creat a debate and seed a story that would fuel the false flag idea? It's better to have an internal family squabble you can contain than fight with the family down the street.

Once the US starts a war with a country that had nuclear capabilities, it is almost inevitable that life as we know it would end. That country knew that, and so they knew the only option would be for the US to meet their demands.

Again this is my opinion, I offer no evidence to support this. All I am saying is, think about it. Where does all your stuff come from? Read what it says on the back. Made in ...

Originally posted by hooper
reply to post by pupetmaster

 

Topic is 9-11 & matrix.

The "Matrix" was a make believe movie. And you are taking too many pills.

The "Matrix" was a movie, you don't have proof that it's not more that a movie. You are posting too many posts in 9/11 forums in fact that's the only forum you post in, hmmmmmmmm..........and sure enough your good buddy oldave's here too sole 9/11 posters.

Arguing with these guys is about as useful as the official 9/11 report

Originally posted by PageAlaCearl


The "Matrix" was a movie, you don't have proof that it's not more that a movie.

Wait...what? This sentence is amazing. Do you really think we are living in a dream world, Neo?

Originally posted by Six Sigma

Originally posted by PageAlaCearl


The "Matrix" was a movie, you don't have proof that it's not more that a movie.

Wait...what? This sentence is amazing. Do you really think we are living in a dream world, Neo?

Quantum physics has a lot of proof that we live in a holographic universe but I'm not about to go into it with you so you'll have to do you own research. People believe that there is hell and heaven how is that anymore crazier?

From a New Scientist article. Physicists at the GEO 600 geo600.aei.mpg.de/ a project to detect gravity waves are finding evidence to support the theory that our universe is really 2 dimensional, similar to a hologram that appears 3 dimensional. Information seems to grow only at a 2 dimensional rate. We could simply be on the surface of a black hole. Among many interesting points is that even though much may be going on below the Planck scale that we can never see, it may not be neccessary. I find the general similarity between holographich theory and brane theory fascinating.

quantumphysics.tribe.net...

Holographic Universe: Discovery Could Herald New Era In Fundamental Physics

ScienceDaily (Feb. 3, 2009) — Cardiff University researchers, who are part of a British-German team searching the depths of space to study gravitational waves, may have stumbled on one of the most important discoveries in physics, according to an American physicist.

Craig Hogan, a physicist at Fermilab Centre for Particle Astrophysics in Illinois is convinced that he has found proof in the data of the gravitational wave detector GEO600 of a holographic Universe – and that his ideas could explain mysterious noise in the detector data that has not been explained so far.

www.sciencedaily.com...

What would you do if you were to find out that you and everything you know, see, and experience were nothing more than a hologram a projection of cosmic data. It sounds like something from the matrix trilogy but it is actually a possible scientific theory. If you know anything about physics you know that for the longest time physicists searched for a theory of everything. This theory is supposed to perfectly explain the universe and all the phenomena that occur within it and possibly just possible explain why.


One of the most promising candidates for this explanation has been quantum physics and string theory. Physicists starting in the early 20th century started to suspect the fundamentals of the physical universe may not be explained at the macroscale but at the micro subatomic scale. The branch of quantum physics called string theory is suspected as being one of the first steps to connecting the invisible building blocks of the universe to the manifestation of energy and matter we see and observe.

www.universetoday.com...

since i was a a young boy i have always been interested in the 'alternative' side of things, and i will say the film that really set it all off was flight of the navigator. then my dad gave me a 3 folders of "the unexplained" magazine and that was it. my sights were firmly fixed on the alternative when the x-files started, i was hooked! after that my dad started showing me micheal moores tv nation, this was just reaffirming to me that there was something going on that shouldn't be. after i saw loose change (which i only found out about in an "official story" documentary ridiculing it as nonsense) i was poppin red pills daily. i think that if you want to find conspiracy you will where as if like my father (who ironically got me into the alternative via 3 folders of the unexplained) wont look into anything, he has his perception of the world and i have mine, and that is the difference he sees what he allows himself to see wheras i try to look at everything. i'm at the point now where i am handing out red pills (check my signature)! peace

Originally posted by PancakeTheoryNeedsSyrup
Youre generalizing- no one said that anyone who believes/stands up for the official story is a "sinister secret agent" what I believe he was saying and what i AM saying is that it becomes apparent that there are such things as paid and even fake posters on social networks/forums see this:

...to which I would respond..

a) people publishing disinformation for some specific agenda is hardly new. I remember when the automobile companies were trying to get people to think Ralph Nader was homosexual after he released that scathing review of the Corvair. In the hands of the gov't it would be a terrific tool to...oh, I don't know...instigate riots in Arab countries by making people believe there was widespread opposition to their totalitarian gov'ts?...but I can't see why they would waste their time using it to argue with people insisting the towers were destroyed by lasers from outer space when they know full well only a fringe minority of people take it seriously.

b) If I was a paid poster I wouldn't be claiming the coverup was simply the gov't covering it's butt and hiding their monumental incompetence. All I'd be doing is swapping "reason A for why you should mistrust the gov't" with "reason B for why you should mistrust the gov't".

c) The bizarre behavior of characters like Alex Jones has nothing to do with this Persona software. He genuinely and legitimately is a crackpot.

Back on to the topic: We do not know if it was an inside job as an appropriate investigation was never carried out- and dont say we had a commission that did that, because they have come out on record stating they were not allowed to carry out a full investigation something like 6 out of 10 of them made such statements... And for the BIG ONE WTC7, free fall speeds with eyewitnesses reporting explosions, eyewitnesses mysteriously disappearing: im talking Barry Jennings here.

Tell me how can you conclude that there is nothing mysterious about the attacks? Are you so scared to believe that the men in power through government, business, military are willing to attack their own people in order for their own financial gain?? If you bother to respond use FACTS not personal beliefs, or generalized statements.

All right, it's an honest question and it deserves an honest answer...

a) Just because a complete investigation wasn't carried out (as well as the probability the gov't gave false testimony) it doesn't mean the findings that it was an attack by Islamic fundamentalists are wrong. The 9/11 commission report came from the testimony from a LOT of eyewitnesses going back through Mohammed Atta's life- his university friends reporting the guy was a religious fanatic, German intelligence reports stating he was in contact with al Qaida operatives while in Hamburg, the paper trail leading from his flight training to the airport to his being on the hijacked plane, all of it, shows that if Mohammed Atta wasn't the leader of the plot per se he was still involved up to his neck in the scheme. You can't just brush all that aside and pretend it doesn't exist solely because you want to believe there's some other sinster secret boogeyman behind the attack.

b) then there's the REAL reason why I view these conspiracy claims have zero credibility- literally every single piece of the supposed evidence of conspiracy has ultimately turned out to be make believe manufactured by the con artists behind those damned fool conspiracy websites I'm railing about. Case in point- this "mysterious death of Barry Jennings" your referencing was invented by Dylan Avery. Jennings was in his fifties, he was obese, he admitted he had bad legs, and I wouldn't doubt it that he was a smoker. He could have died from anything from heart disease to diabetes to cancer, and the only reason why you think there's something mysterious about it is because the family wants to keep the cause of death a private family matter. Of course, anything being kept a secret just HAS to be some sinister coverup to a character like Dylan Avery, even when it's a private family matter. Oh, and if you didn't notice, I created another thread to discuss where the "pull it is lingo for controlled demolitions" claim originally came from. It turns out that- SURPRISE- it came from Alex Jones deliberately misquoting technicians pulling down building six with cables.

c) The unwillingness to acknowledge the gov't might want to murder its own citizens to fulfill some political agenda has nothing to do with it. It has everything to do with a lot of self serving con artists and lunatics on the internet trying to convince everyone the gov't is planting microphones in our underwear drawers so that we'd send them our money. Do I really need to post that Youtube video of that crackpot Alex Jones pretending to be the Joker again?

point 11. the 25 min blackout, and obama never saw the body is for plausible deniability.

i believe he is in a cia black site.

his wife, who was with him when he died is locked away in a prison. you'll never hear her story.

i would imagine 60 mins or any credible real investigative news outlet would kill to interview her.

but being labelled a 9/11 conspiracy kook, is not worth it.

This is a nice video that shows examples of 911 Hollywood DEJAVUE in movies about terrorism that have heroic & patriotic flavors. Symbolism imagery of 911 has become hyper-real.




"Your are born into a prison that you cannot see, taste or hear."



I like his words to; "we need to wake up", as if we are in the dreamworld.
(i don't promote what is in the video after 5:20m)

Originally posted by pupetmaster
More food for thought

Yes but on the passport also are the dates sep 12, and 13th. So?

reply to post by hooper


hooper you dont half get about the 911 threads for someone who does not care figured out the time yet

Originally posted by geobro
reply to post by hooper

 

hooper you dont half get about the 911 threads for someone who does not care figured out the time yet

Is this in English? I'm just asking.

reply to post by Six Sigma

yes acually old chap its a mixture of latin & hebrew some even go as far as to say its a devil worshiping language derived in the 8th centuary . waiting for hooper to ask loads of people what time they heard about 911 ps pouge mahone

Originally posted by geobro

yes acually old chap its a mixture of latin & hebrew some even go as far as to say its a devil worshiping language derived in the 8th centuary . waiting for hooper to ask loads of people what time they heard about 911 ps pouge mahone

Another Truther that is grammatically challenged. Stop listening to Alex Jones and start hitting your English books.

on the morning of 12 of september or 9-12 whatever i got uip at my usual 5am .i watched the morning news as i had breakfast some young dude in army clothes no badges guy looked just out of school stood at a speakers bench in the white house i beleive to say yes we did shoot planes out of the sky then moved out of the way very quickly . i thought that rather odd that it was not done by someone more senior more than me noticed that one very next day mirror newspaper uk had a tiny section on page 2 about 3 inches by 1 about a van going missing in england with enough weapons grade atomic material to make 2 bombs . not another word was heard about that one any body out there know anymore

reply to post by Six Sigma
dont do alex /shill jones or david icke im scottish & dyslexic so sue me

Prior to 2001, I was already known as the 'conspiracy nut' of the workplace, and would regularly tell stories of how our rights were being legislated away into oblivion. The Fed Reserve crowd were the enemy, and so on down the rabbit hole.

March 2nd, I went ballistic,, and remember well going crazy about the news that the then unknown Taliban had started the destructive weeks that ultimately ended the sacred calm the Buddhas of Bamiyan, Afganistan had reposed upon for over a 1000 years. I was AWAKE like no other time in my life, and wanted others to Wake up

they didn't wake up

On my birthday that year I realized that I wasn't going to have a retirement like my parents.

On September 11, 2001 I thought Earth had a chance afterwards,,, everyone was American across the globe that day , of those who had sympathy,,, and We had the chance for a few days,,, maybe represented by Neo's other days of the 12th and 13th on his passport. Maybe that was a small window that decided the worlds fate.

I think the Bifurcation of the Moment led us down this horrible path to destruction we are now upon. Our Leaders took us down a path of War and destruction,, NOT PEACE LIKE COULD HAVE BEEN WORKED UPON.
Now I am Not sure we can correct the unbalancing of the Tipping Point that occured there,, and
Here today
Closing in on the Date that has caught the attention of the world again,,,, still in the future,,,
DECEMBER 21, 2012

What will we do?
Wake up?

or go back to sleep for good?

WAKE UP AND GET UP ALREADY!!!
Something Wonderful Can Still HAPPEN.

It is NOT THE END.
Just the Beginning of being Awake.

reply to post by GoodOlDave

. The 9/11 commission report came from the testimony from a LOT of eyewitnesses going back through Mohammed Atta's life- his university friends reporting the guy was a religious fanatic, German intelligence reports stating he was in contact with al Qaida operatives while in Hamburg, the paper trail leading from his flight training to the airport to his being on the hijacked plane, all of it, shows that if Mohammed Atta wasn't the leader of the plot per se he was still involved up to his neck in the scheme. You can't just brush all that aside and pretend it doesn't exist solely because you want to believe there's some other sinster secret boogeyman behind the attack.

There was a lot of documentation and intelligence reports put out there about Lee Harvey Oswald too to put the nails in his coffin of guilt. Of course there is also the fact that GHWB was in Dallas the day before JFK was shot and his connection with George De Morentschild who was also directly connected with Oswald. But that must be a coincidence. Just because there is dirt on Atta does not mean that Al Qaida is not All CIA-duh or, if the 19 hijackers really were involved, that also does not preclude the possibility that they were knowingly or unknowingly working for the intelligence agencies/Illuminati.

literally every single piece of the supposed evidence of conspiracy has ultimately turned out to be make believe manufactured by the con artists behind those damned fool conspiracy websites I'm railing about. Case in point- this "mysterious death of Barry Jennings" your referencing was invented by Dylan Avery. Jennings was in his fifties, he was obese, he admitted he had bad legs, and I wouldn't doubt it that he was a smoker. He could have died from anything from heart disease to diabetes to cancer

I'm sure that's what happened to all of these people as well. That is also quite a broad and inaccurate blanket statement to say that every piece of evidence has been made up. And again, I point out that it is highly likely that claims like space lasers and the made up evidence it done on purpose to discredit the CT's and further bury the truth. It is a common and well known disinformation technique.

It has everything to do with a lot of self serving con artists and lunatics on the internet trying to convince everyone the gov't is planting microphones in our underwear drawers so that we'd send them our money. Do I really need to post that Youtube video of that crackpot Alex Jones pretending to be the Joker again?

Making broad, sweeping statements and assumptions does not prove your point nor does it make your statements true. Just because Jones is an ass (and a likely outed Stratfor agent as well-gee I guess that proves my point about intentional disinformation to discredit the CT) and there are con artists out there, does not mean that every CT is con-artist generated. There are also a lot of people out there seeking the truth for truth's sake and not just to make a buck or cause chaos. That is like saying that every person that pushes the OS is a disinformation agent. That is as incorrect as saying that every CT has a personal agenda.

I notice that you do that a lot. You point out the most ridiculous aspects and equate that with the whole. You over-generalize, and generally ridicule. After a while of checking out your posts, you don't strike me as someone looking for the truth. You strike me as someone that ridicules anyone that thinks that the OS is not the truth, again equating genuine and intelligent seekers with blind sheeple willing to jump on the CT of the day.

Originally posted by coyotepoet
There was a lot of documentation and intelligence reports put out there about Lee Harvey Oswald too to put the nails in his coffin of guilt. Of course there is also the fact that GHWB was in Dallas the day before JFK was shot and his connection with George De Morentschild who was also directly connected with Oswald. But that must be a coincidence. Just because there is dirt on Atta does not mean that Al Qaida is not All CIA-duh or, if the 19 hijackers really were involved, that also does not preclude the possibility that they were knowingly or unknowingly working for the intelligence agencies/Illuminati.

I shouldn't have to point out that using unsubstanciated and unprovable allegations to back up other unsubstanciated and unprovable allegations isn't proof. It's circular logic in that you're simply stating the same accusation in different terms in order to prove itself. I don't go for circular logic, I go for the facts, and the facts are that Mohammed Atta had the intelligence to do it, he had the religious zeal to want to do it, he had documentable connections and funding from Al Qaida, he had the training to do it, and it's established he was on the plane that was hijacked. It would be unrealistic to the point of outright excuse making to claim that a person so uniquely qualified to do this specific task was lined up only to have someone else do it.

Incidentally, swap "religious fanaticism", "flight training", and "passenger on the hijacked plane" with "communist zealotry", "marine sharpshooter training" and "employee of a book warehouse in Dallas" and the exact same thing applies to Lee Harvey Oswald.

I'm sure that's what happened to all of these people as well. That is also quite a broad and inaccurate blanket statement to say that every piece of evidence has been made up. And again, I point out that it is highly likely that claims like space lasers and the made up evidence it done on purpose to discredit the CT's and further bury the truth. It is a common and well known disinformation technique.

To which I would respond...

a) the information those damned fool conspiracy web sites are't all outright lies. It's also quotes taken out of context, innuendo, and unprovable assumptions, and I can give you all the example of this that you'd like.

b) The "Lasers from outer space" claim is coming from Judy Wood, and she's a univereity professor as a materials engineer. PLUS, she actually sued the gov't on the grounds they were covering up a "lasers from otuer space" cospiracy. Using the excuse of "oh, she's just a secret disinformation agent" is not really satisfying in her case.

Making broad, sweeping statements and assumptions does not prove your point nor does it make your statements true. Just because Jones is an ass (and a likely outed Stratfor agent as well-gee I guess that proves my point about intentional disinformation to discredit the CT) and there are con artists out there, does not mean that every CT is con-artist generated. There are also a lot of people out there seeking the truth for truth's sake and not just to make a buck or cause chaos. That is like saying that every person that pushes the OS is a disinformation agent. That is as incorrect as saying that every CT has a personal agenda.

The difference between a genuine researcher and a believer of the conspiracy faith is that a researcher listens to the facts of both sides of the issue to see who has the better credibility, while a conspiracy theoriest wants to convince others of what he/she believes regardless of what the facts are. For one thing, I think I've met only two people her who actually read the 9/11 commission report, which is astonishing seeing this is the natural starting poitn of anyone interested in the events of 9/11. Even if you believe it's a lie it's your obligation to know what the lies actually are.

So tell me, did YOU read the 9/11 commission report?

I notice that you do that a lot. You point out the most ridiculous aspects and equate that with the whole. You over-generalize, and generally ridicule. After a while of checking out your posts, you don't strike me as someone looking for the truth. You strike me as someone that ridicules anyone that thinks that the OS is not the truth, again equating genuine and intelligent seekers with blind sheeple willing to jump on the CT of the day.

I have already said more times than I can remember that I don't believe the (as you put it) "official story" any more than you do. If my multitude of explanations on what my position is hasn't gotten through this "I believe everything the gov't tells me" propaganda you're clinging to the same way Linus clings to his security blanket then explaining yet again will be pointless.