Fear Christian Politicians... Seriously

nevermind...

[edit on 28-9-2004 by cargo]

Originally posted by curme
And these are the same people who run around and scream, "Islam is trying to take over the world with their evil religion!" Islam doesn't have a monopoly on fruitcakes. Any relgion, taken to extremes, is a bad thing.

Islam is trying to take over the world with their evil religion!

The US bible belt is FUNDAMENTALIST. This rapture lark is the pinacle of brainwashing. And its no joke either. US policy on Israel and Palestine is dictated by the rapture index nutters. The only goal is to achieve theAPOCALYPSE! Emanentisizing the eshaton if you will....
Requirements are (according to the rapture crew):

1. Israel back to its biblical state.

2. Rebuild the temple of Solomon on the hill in Jerusalem.

3. Big fight with anti-christ.


Be afraid of these maniacs... very afraid.

I agree with the idea that religious fundamentalist in an effort to proof the validity of the bible claims will go to the extend as to manipulate the prophecies of the bible to achieve their religious control.

After all it was humans the ones that wrote the bible and it will be humans the ones that will bring the end of times to earth and they will do it as close to the bible claims as they can.

Steering back to the main subject for a second

www.signonsandiego.com...

September 25, 2004

WASHINGTON � The Rev. Jerry Falwell said yesterday that evangelical Christians, after nearly 25 years of increasing political activism, now control the Republican Party and the fate of President Bush in the November election.

[edit on 28-9-2004 by Thatoneguy]

are u sure you dont mean catholic christians

im a born again christian or evangelist or watever you want to call it

are u sure you dont mean catholic christians

im a born again christian or evangelist or watever you want to call it

(whoops sorry for the 2 posts)

[edit on 28-9-2004 by elliott reid]

OKay TC wants to quote our founding fathers... Well so will I

Starting with Ben Franklin

Well, let's look at what another Founder said. Ben Franklin, also famous for flying kites in dangerous weather conditions, stated that the only way this "experiment in society" would succeed was with Judeo-Christian ethics, morals and principles. Strange, huh, that in spite of what the brilliant political, societal and mainstream media minds tell us, the Founding Fathers had a totally different view of not only the nation but the 1st Amendment.

Now lets look at some more Ben Franklin qoutes

I believe in one God, Creator of the universe.... That the most acceptable service we can render Him is doing good to His other children.... As to Jesus ... I have ... some doubts as to his divinity; though it is a question I do not dogmatize upon, having never studied it, and think it needless to busy myself with it now, when I expect soon an opportunity of knowing the truth with less trouble.


As to Jesus of Nazareth, my Opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the System of Morals and his Religion...has received various corrupting Changes, and I have, with most of the present dissenters in England, some doubts as to his Divinity; tho' it is a question I do not dogmatize upon, having never studied it, and think it needless to busy myself with it now, when I expect soon an opportunity of knowing the Truth with less trouble."

TC:

To further support the idea that, yes, religion has a place in government, and yes, folks, this nation's belief is Christianity, let's see what John Adams said about religion. He believed that "We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion..." This kind of shoots holes in the brainless, knee-jerk statement of you can't legislate morality (Really? Then what is it that you do legislate, hmm?). But listen to the rest, "Our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate for the government of any other."

Now lets look at some more John Adams quotes

"Twenty times in the course of my late reading, have I been upon the point of breaking out, "This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it!"

Treaty of Tripoli signed by John Adams states

"As the Government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Musselmen; and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."

Ben Franklin believed in a God.. Creator of the universe, but he doubts Jesus.

Thomas Jefferson, you say is possibly misquoted. But

"Is uniformity attainable? Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error
all over the earth."

[edit on 28-9-2004 by Thatoneguy]

TC, no name calling, that is against the rules. I know this one very well.

Anyways, getting a guy who says "I wasn't voted in, god put me here." or "God told me to invade Iraq." is never a good person to have WMDs.

TC, may want to see a shrink about those voices, sorry but hearing voices is not normal, or usually good. Unless they tell you to do nice things, unlike the other 99.9999999% that tell people to kill, invade Iraq and kill them, kill your children(that woman in Texas) and so forth. At least a Jewish/Buddist/Hindu/Atheist/Wiccan/Druid president wouldn't be shaking in his boots that if he makes his god mad he will be punished with hellfire and brimstone. Must be nice not fearing your higher being.

Hello Groupies:

Can someone on this THREAD kinldy tell me what "a Christian Nation" is? ''

I mean, obeying the Torah of Moses is hard enough, but giving all my money away.....that just takes the Matzah.

One person in our office said to me once when I innocently (ok not so innocently) asked her what would a Christian Nation do?

She told me that a Christian Nation is one who would Act as "Jesus" would act."

I asked her who "Jesus" was.

She said Jesus Christ. I asked her what his full name was. She said Jesus was his first name, and Christ was his last name, eveybody knows that.

I explained to her that he was a Jewish Galilean Rabbi of the 1st Century whose name was Aramaic not Greek, and would not have recognised the name Iesous if someone addressed him by that name.

She said I was wrong.

I told her his name would have been something like R. Yehoshua bar Yosef, and that he may have gone by a variety of Titles (e.g. HaMoreh, Son of David, Rabbouni, etc.).

She told me that I didn't know what I was talking about, and that I needed to go to Church and learn what the Word said about Jesus. I asked her Which Word. She said the Bible.

I said Which Bible? She said the one they read in HER church.

I told her that there were several different collections of books go by the name of Bible, that don't match (e.g the Catholic Bible is a different Text than a Protestant Bible, with extra books like the Apocrypha and everything.)

She told me I was mistaken, that the holy word of God only refers to one book and one book only.

I asked her if she had ever read a copy of the Vulgate. She asked me what that was. I asked her if she had ever heard of Jerome. She said no.

I asked her if she knew that Jerome's Vulgate was in 5th century AD Latin and was based on the Septuagint Greek Old Testament, which is vastly different from the Masoretic Text that the protestant bibles translated out of the Masoretic text of Leningrad from AD 850.

She said I didn't know what I was talking about, there was only one Bible and that was that.

I asked her if she knew that the name IESOUS was actually a Greek version of the Hebrew name JOSHUA (Yehoshua), and that the person she calls IESOUS did not even speak Greek. She said I was mis-informed.

I asked her if she had ever studied Hebrew. She said no.

I asked her if she had ever studied Koine 1st Century Greek. She said no.

I asked her if she happened to know any 1st century Galilean Aramaic, She said no.

I casually mentioned that "Jesus" spoke Galilean Aramaic and northern Mishnaic Hebrew, and she said I was wrong, because Jesus was a "christian" and not "jewish".

I changed the subject.

I asked her then how do you KNOW what IESOUS would have done without knowing what he actually "said" in context. She said it was in her Bible in English and that was good enough to know what IESOUS said and did

I asked her how did she know what was in her Bible was an accurate collection of Jesus'sayings. She said that God wouldn't allow his WORD to be corrupted, and of course it's accurate, 100,000 ministers wouldn't be liars would they?

I asked her had she ever bothered to check out these facts for herself (by comparing even the English translations of the "sayings of Jesus" in the 4 Gospels).

She said she didn't have to read it, what she learned in Church was enough for her, and did not want to Tempt the Lord, which would have been a sin, didn't I know anything.

I asked her IF YOU CANNOT VERIFY THAT YOU KNOW WHAT JESUS SAID AND DID (by reading the "Holy" Gospels, even in English) THEN HOW DO WE KNOW WHAT IESOUS WOULD DO IN ANY GIVEN CIRCUMSTANCE?

She turned it around and asked me what I thought Jesus would do.

I told her that he would have done WHAT HE DID DO, according to the "bible": you know...start a riot in the Court of the Gentiles in the Temple during a major Feast, then go around telling people to go out and buy swords and arm all over our disciples with them , then climb a hill and and go and wait for 12 legions of angels to swoop down and kill the Roman Occupiers, and if anyone kicked up a stink, to cut their ears off.

She said, that's not in her Bible. I told her to look up Luke 22:30-35. She told me that Satan had deceived me, and that she didn't have to look it up..and that she knew I was wrong and that was that.

So what do YOU think a "Christian Nation" would behave. I admit...I'm stumped !

Some day, go through a bible and just read the words in red....(the words Jesus spoke..) and well, maybe that is would Jesus would do...
tell his desciples to leave their family and follow him??
tell them to go without money, or extra clothing, ect.
tell them to give away their belongings, and more, if they are asked to.
he wouldn't be judgemental.
feed the hungry..
ect...
well, anyway, read the words in red and then look around the US with it's multi million dollar chuches filled will nicely clothed people, who drove there in their really nice cars. And, well, sit down at a pew and listen to the gossip, the judgements.....

Hey, I don't know, but something just doesn't jive here....
I've only met one christian in my 40+ years of living who actually gave everything they owned away to the poor, carried very little with them and trusted god to that extent while she vetured out to help spread the word.....and her theology didn't quite jive with what most churches are saying. and, I witnessed actual miracles at the revival that I met her at.

Amadeus, you are so right even in this time and age people can be so naive in their belief who do we blame? For their ignorance, some say ignorance is a bliss but I say only when it does not occupy my space, keep religion of the government and in the churches where it belongs.

And again you cannot blame the poor souls that are born with the veil of the ignorance, until they become rules of the world, then be scare very scare.

No, actually, TWG, I can only give you a few quotes and a quick class. If I had the time and you had the time, I could sit down with you and give you several hours� worth of class time on this. It�s very hard to encapsulate it all in a post, especially when I type by the three-finger method. I hope to bring a forth digit online soon, so maybe it�ll pick up.

The quote issue I�ll not get into, as I don�t peruse the Internet in search of �quotes that might support my position. My position comes from study and fact-finding; I do not develop an opinion and then attempt to support it with quotes. The facts are very clear, like it or not. Were you to look at the history of this nation objectively, you�d see that this was quite apparent until the early sixties when the attack on the culture began in earnest. However, you brought John Adams into the fray, therefore I believe it only fair that I add this quote, �As much as I love, esteem and admire the Greeks, I believe the Hebrews have done more to enlighten and civilize the world. Moses did more than all their legislators and philosophers.� Hmm, might there be a connection between that thought and the fact that this is a Judeo-Christian nation, especially when you think of that along with Ben�s view on how this experiment in society would succeed? It has nothing to do with believe, but those three words Ben used; ethics, morals and values. You do not have to be a Christian to live and conduct yourself properly in such a nation.
Mr. Adams also stated that the constitution was made only for moral and religious people. I would certainly imagine that it has a little to do with our free enterprise market. To me, it is clear that there is where unrestrained people could allow greed to enter into their hearts and hurt other people.

As far as the Treaty of Tripoli, you have attributed the wrong man for that document. It wasn�t even written in the U.S., but in Algiers, translated into English by a man named Joel (or was it Joe?) Barlow, and signed by him and the Arabic counterparts. The paragraph to which you refer is not in the original text, mysteriously, but is in other copies. Regardless, that document was annulled by war, (Remember the problem with the Barbary Coast Pirates?), and a new document was drawn up, similar to the old, but the language to which you refer says nothing of the nation being Christian or not, but makes it clear that the government has no established religion and that religion has no play in the affairs. Remember, the treaty was one of trade, not conversion.

I so hope that I was able to assist in the understanding of this topic; while most of it is fairly shallow and understandable and should be easily grasped by one�s self, the Treaty of Tripoli is a part that I could see might trip someone on the surface. Don�t worry since it isn�t the first time. Remember how there was no quick means of travel or communication in the old days? This Treaty got in the works when Washington was president and was finished (the first document) when Adams was president. Even then, people mistook the language as you did and that caused poor old George to grind his wooden teeth in angst. You can imagine how it would be even worse today.

Thanks to all for your time, and I certainly hope I hurt no students� feelings with my loving and tender instruction.

Marge, I wonder as well, how is it that one can be so ignorant. One can only roll one's eyes when something like "Keep it in church" is said. I have clearly and with knowledge well beyond simple personal opinion explained how this nation was assembled and built and how society was expected to conduct itself, and the end result is basically to keep the moral people locked up and let the rest have the nation.

Who and what was Jesus in the day, uncluttered by someone else's muddying the waters? I believe that was clarified in elementary school. At least it was when I went through.