George Zimmerman to be charged in Trayvon Martin shooting, official says

Originally posted by pizzanazi75

Originally posted by AwakeinNM
2nd Degree Murder

Now if the prosecutor can get an all-black jury, she'll have a home run and a bright political future.

Second degree murder, seriously? I guess getting physically attacked is no longer a good enough reason to defend yourself. I may not know all the 'facts', but I do know this - the "special prosecutor" filed charges, NOT the police. So the police don't think there is enough evidence but this SP does? I smell political posturing. If this special prosecutor woman doesn't run for office after this, I will eat a baby seal in front of PETA's headquarters.

edit on 11-4-2012 by AwakeinNM because: (no reason given)

Guess you didn't follow the case at all. The lead investigator recommended homicide or manslaughter charges that very night. So you are wrong the police did want to charge him......they were shot down by State Attorney Wolfsinger.
And the SP has already run for office. Her position is elected. She is well respected in FL. I guess you better get ready to eat baby seal in front of PETA.

I meant GOVERNOR or some other office. Please.

The police wanted to charge him? I never read that in any of the news stories I saw.

Originally posted by hapablab

Originally posted by OneisOne

Originally posted by ButterCookie
WTF????????

I am disgusted...... no words

I feel like I just watched a pound of flesh get carved up and served on live stream.

The SP's use of the phrase "precious victims" & the way she opened the press conference made me think she is more worried about media coverage than law.

OiO

Yes I seen that too, I was thinking, wait she shouldn't be talking like that, regardless she sounded like she was best friends with the family, it was creepy, i can understand sympathy but to me she was one sided on this.

Of course she is one sided. She reviewed the evidence of the case, and with her authority, decided to charge a man with 2nd degree murder. Of course she is one sided, she has seen all the evidence, she believes he is guilty.

She is also compassionate towards a grieving family who's child was murdered and she is trying to get justice for. I know compassion for the victim and their family is slim around these parts of the interwebs but alot of human beings have it, she is allowed to have it as well and do her job at the same time.

Originally posted by antonia

Originally posted by Stormdancer777

Originally posted by antonia
reply to post by Stormdancer777

 

I don't know, I would think if there was some huge deal involving me going on I'd probably keep my ass where I could be found until I knew it was all settled. That's what most grown people do anyway.

I understand, but this isn't you average case.

How does that matter? Because it's not your average case he's exempted from responsible adult behavior? He could have stayed in the state. The police would have protected him.

Antonia, I guess he behaved like an adult in this instance, he turned himself in, we should not assume anything.

There will be no justice here just a public lynching i had to mute that press conference because she was lying.

Judged jurored and executed the only thing they are trying to do now is make it "legal"

Originally posted by AwakeinNM

Originally posted by pizzanazi75

Originally posted by AwakeinNM
2nd Degree Murder

Now if the prosecutor can get an all-black jury, she'll have a home run and a bright political future.

Second degree murder, seriously? I guess getting physically attacked is no longer a good enough reason to defend yourself. I may not know all the 'facts', but I do know this - the "special prosecutor" filed charges, NOT the police. So the police don't think there is enough evidence but this SP does? I smell political posturing. If this special prosecutor woman doesn't run for office after this, I will eat a baby seal in front of PETA's headquarters.

edit on 11-4-2012 by AwakeinNM because: (no reason given)

Guess you didn't follow the case at all. The lead investigator recommended homicide or manslaughter charges that very night. So you are wrong the police did want to charge him......they were shot down by State Attorney Wolfsinger.
And the SP has already run for office. Her position is elected. She is well respected in FL. I guess you better get ready to eat baby seal in front of PETA.

I meant GOVERNOR or some other office. Please.

The police wanted to charge him? I never read that in any of the news stories I saw.

Well you didn't say governor or some other office.

And it looks like Zimmerman should have gone with the police recommendation......it was a lesser charge.

Trayvon Martin Investigator Wanted Manslaughter Charge

Originally posted by butcherguy

Originally posted by pizzanazi75

Originally posted by AwakeinNM
2nd Degree Murder

Now if the prosecutor can get an all-black jury, she'll have a home run and a bright political future.

Second degree murder, seriously? I guess getting physically attacked is no longer a good enough reason to defend yourself. I may not know all the 'facts', but I do know this - the "special prosecutor" filed charges, NOT the police. So the police don't think there is enough evidence but this SP does? I smell political posturing. If this special prosecutor woman doesn't run for office after this, I will eat a baby seal in front of PETA's headquarters.

edit on 11-4-2012 by AwakeinNM because: (no reason given)

Guess you didn't follow the case at all. The lead investigator recommended homicide or manslaughter charges that very night. So you are wrong the police did want to charge him......they were shot down by State Attorney Wolfsinger.
And the SP has already run for office. Her position is elected. She is well respected in FL. I guess you better get ready to eat baby seal in front of PETA.

Agreed.
This could end up tarnishing her career though. She very well may not get a conviction, which will not set well with the people that believe that Zimmerman committed a crime. She will not score any points with the people that believe Zimmerman should not have been charged. To me, it looks like a 'lose/lose' situation for her. It is a shame, because she is just going to be doing her job now, regardless of whether or not political pressure has been applied to her up to this point.
I agree with your earlier post that this will most likely end up with a hung jury.

From what I have read and heard about her she isn't really concerned with ruining her career. I don't think it will ruin her either way.....depending on how she handles the actual case. If she goes in and blows the case then I think it will hurt her. If she goes in and fights and proves her case and it just comes down to a hung jury, I think most people will forgive her for that.

I didn't follow Casey Anthony trial to close, was it televised? I hope this one is, I know I will watch for sure.

Originally posted by neo96
There will be no justice here just a public lynching i had to mute that press conference because she was lying.

Judged jurored and executed the only thing they are trying to do now is make it "legal"

I had to close the browser I was watching the press conference in - she started in with the Martins as "constitutional victims", I knew it was a lynching in progress. I hope Zimmerman likes trains, because he is gonna get railroaded.

reply to post by pizzanazi75


If I had to guess manslaughter is a lesser included offense of murder. I would need to confirm that so this is just a guess for now. Also the legal system allows for a person to be charged with one crime yet can be found guilty of a lesser crime if its included.

Quick example -
A person who breaks into a house commits 2 crimes - burglary as well as trespassing. The person cannot be charged with both. If he is charged with burglary it automatically includes the lesser included offense of trespassing.

In Florida its possible manslaughter is the lesser included offense. An "aim high and hope for a hit" somewhere on the target. If the jury / judge does not think Zimmerman's actions support 2nd degree murder then its possible (if Florida law allows it) to find him guilty of the lesser included offense of manslaughter.

Also the other thing to keep in mind is prosecutors will go for the top end of the charge in hopes of forcing a plea deal. A person who is confronted with the possibility of life in prison usually goes along with a lesser plea if it means they get out in 5-15 years.

I'm not saying that is whats occurring but its something to watch.

reply to post by Xcathdra
I added a part directly under, and related to the section that you posted:

(2) The unlawful killing of a human being, when perpetrated by any act imminently dangerous to another and evincing a depraved mind regardless of human life, although without any premeditated design to effect the death of any particular individual, is murder in the second degree and constitutes a felony of the first degree, punishable by imprisonment for a term of years not exceeding life or as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084. (3) When a person is killed in the perpetration of, or in the attempt to perpetrate, any: (a) Trafficking offense prohibited by s. 893.135(1), (b) Arson, (c) Sexual battery, (d) Robbery, (e) Burglary, (f) Kidnapping, (g) Escape, (h) Aggravated child abuse, (i) Aggravated abuse of an elderly person or disabled adult, (j) Aircraft piracy, (k) Unlawful throwing, placing, or discharging of a destructive device or bomb, (l) Carjacking, (m) Home-invasion robbery, (n) Aggravated stalking, (o) Murder of another human being, (p) Resisting an officer with violence to his or her person, or (q) Felony that is an act of terrorism or is in furtherance of an act of terrorism, by a person other than the person engaged in the perpetration of or in the attempt to perpetrate such felony, the person perpetrating or attempting to perpetrate such felony is guilty of

murder in the second degree, which constitutes a felony of the first degree, punishable by imprisonment for a term of years not exceeding life or as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

Source

This being the important part that you didn't include-
by a person other than the person engaged in the perpetration of or in the attempt to perpetrate such felony, the person perpetrating or attempting to perpetrate such felony is guilty of murder in the second degree, which constitutes a felony of the first degree, punishable by imprisonment for a term of years not exceeding life or as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

So we have this:
The unlawful killing of a human being, when perpetrated by any act imminently dangerous to another and evincing a depraved mind regardless of human life, although without any premeditated design to effect the death of any particular individual, is murder in the second degree

Of which this seems to be very important:
and evincing a depraved mind regardless of human life, although without any premeditated design to effect the death of any particular individual,
It says 'and'. Will they not need to prove beyond reasonable doubt the 'and' part?

reply to post by anon72

Thank God,justice has been served!

Originally posted by Xcathdra
reply to post by pizzanazi75

 

If I had to guess manslaughter is a lesser included offense of murder. I would need to confirm that so this is just a guess for now. Also the legal system allows for a person to be charged with one crime yet can be found guilty of a lesser crime if its included.

Quick example -
A person who breaks into a house commits 2 crimes - burglary as well as trespassing. The person cannot be charged with both. If he is charged with burglary it automatically includes the lesser included offense of trespassing.

In Florida its possible manslaughter is the lesser included offense. An "aim high and hope for a hit" somewhere on the target. If the jury / judge does not think Zimmerman's actions support 2nd degree murder then its possible (if Florida law allows it) to find him guilty of the lesser included offense of manslaughter.

Also the other thing to keep in mind is prosecutors will go for the top end of the charge in hopes of forcing a plea deal. A person who is confronted with the possibility of life in prison usually goes along with a lesser plea if it means they get out in 5-15 years.

I'm not saying that is whats occurring but its something to watch.

I kinda of figure that lesser charges could be included. I wasn't sure and I didn't hear he mention it in the press conference. Maybe that is why she chose to charge high. It gives the jury lots of options to convict but maybe of a lesser charge.

If Zimmerman was smart, in my opinion, he would plea this case out and beg for mercy from the Martins, the court, and America. If he did that I think he could get a reduced charge, a reduced sentence, and maybe, just maybe a chance at a life again. If he wants to prove his remorse like his family and friends say he is, then that would be his best avenue. Take responsibility and let people know it was a horrible mistake and not fueled by race hatred.

However...if the feds have uncovered anything that warrants a hate crime charge....internet postings, books, communications, etc.....I don't think he has a chance and would be a dead man walking.

Originally posted by butcherguy
So we have this:
The unlawful killing of a human being, when perpetrated by any act imminently dangerous to another and evincing a depraved mind regardless of human life, although without any premeditated design to effect the death of any particular individual, is murder in the second degree

Of which this seems to very important:
and evincing a depraved mind regardless of human life, although without any premeditated design to effect the death of any particular individual,
It says 'and'. Will they not need to prove beyond reasonable doubt the 'and' part?

The prosecution is required to prove their case - all elements of it. Its possible they can do this and the jury could find him not guilty (possibly going down the road of jury nullification but thats another topic for later on down the road).

Anytime a law lists out required actions and uses the term "and" when those actions are listed, they must prove every single element was met in order to support the charge.

Hence my comments on a circumstantial case.

The other law that comes into play is going to be the stand your ground law. That law and its application run contrary to the 2nd degree murder charge. The PA is going to have to successfully argue and convince a judge / jury that it does not apply to Zimmerman and will then need to explain why that is.

Defense will argue the shooting was justified as self defense under both the stand your ground law and the separate law dealing with self defense / defense of others.

Its going to be an interesting case for sure...

reply to post by pizzanazi75


Zimmerman is innocent until proven guilty so we need to keep that in mind. That will change at the end of the trial if it gets that far. Any prosecutor who agrees to a lesser charge for a public apology should be investigated for misconduct.

The law and charges are NOT / SHOULD NOT be based on public opinion.

As far as the federal investigation goes it is limited to civil rights violations. Absent that the feds do not have jurisdiction as no federal laws were violated nor did it occur on federal property.

reply to post by Xcathdra


I don't know why you keep bringing up Stand Your Ground...multiple lawyers, even Zimmerman's own have said it doesn't apply to this case.

In any case, justice has been served. A human died and now a jury will decide if he is guilty of the charge or not.

At least for me...that is all I wanted. If he is found innocent, so be it...I don't care other than the case needed to go to court.

reply to post by anon72


"Well, here we go. Political correctness or Justice Being Served. This matter will split the country even further apart than Obama is doing. "

Only if you watch TV.. this is every day case poisoned by the farcical media world of speculating talking heads, who talk head...

People shoot each other all the time.

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

I don't know why you keep bringing up Stand Your Ground...multiple lawyers, even Zimmerman's own have said it doesn't apply to this case.

In any case, justice has been served. A human died and now a jury will decide if he is guilty of the charge or not.

At least for me...that is all I wanted. If he is found innocent, so be it...I don't care other than the case needed to go to court.

Good call, just like the justice system should work when there are questions.

I fear that there will be many that will not take a finding of innocence as well as you will.

Originally posted by GovtFlu


People shoot each other all the time.

Only in America...is this an everyday thing.

The conservatives are angry because they feel it was only a black kid killed so it is of no importance to them.

Zimmerman was going to be charged by the police prior to this charge...but the prosecutor at the time declined to. The police thought something was up at the time...which is why they needed a special prosecutor to see if they were correct..turns out they were.

The original prosecutor dropped the ball.

Originally posted by ButterCookie
I also feel that this was only done to prevent mass rioting; basically, the Florida criminal justice system catered to the race baiting.

I'm now wondering if this is somehow politically tied....

I've believed that Zimmerman shot Martin out of self defense (and guess what? I'm black)

Just seems to me that Obama supporters/ campaign were seeking any situation like this to blow up and gain public empathy.

Sorry, but that's how I feel.

I am glad that you feel that way. That's good but you ... like everyone else here thinks that is completely fine to follow someone on a public street and confront them with a weapon for no reason at all. You are not a police officer, you do not hold any position of authority... you just this dude with a gun. Neighborhood watch? Are you freaking crazy? You miss the key word ... "watch" ... not confront, assault or kill. How in the world does that make any sense to you? How can you honestly sit there and justify his actions when he was wrong walking out the door that morning?

Was he defending himself? No. Mr. Zimmerman should of stayed in his car and let the trained professionals handle the situation. Instead he wanted to pretend to be a "cop" because he felt emboldened with a gun in his waistband.

Mr. Zimmerman was bold and held his dong in his hand. He confronted Mr. Martin and now he is dead. How can you justify that? I don't see an ounce of self defense here. Mr. Zimmerman, an untrained armed man, injected himself into that situation and that is not self defense.