George Zimmerman to be charged in Trayvon Martin shooting, official says

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posted on Apr, 20 2012 @ 09:30 PM
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Jumping to some more conclusions I see.


Originally posted by 27jd
But, Trayvon did not do the right thing either, regardless how "scared" he may have been


What did Trayvon do wrong exactly? Considering that we have no evidence that Trayvon was the one that confronted Zimmerman first, where did you come to this conclusion? For all we know, Zimmerman may have initiated a confrontation, he may have made a threat, he may have even been the first agressor and Trayvon may have just been defending himself. You've already made the assumption that Trayvon did something wrong, you base this on nothing but Zimmerman's claim.




posted on Apr, 20 2012 @ 09:45 PM
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Originally posted by conspiracy nut
reply to post by 27jd
 


so you condone the fact that zim continued to "follow" tray even after being told not to by 911? i get it not listening to 911 is not a crime either. so zim did everything right? not following neighborhood watch protocol by leaving his vehicle to "follow" tray and carrying a loaded gun with one in the chamber? how conviiiiiiiiienient!


There was nothing wrong with him following a suspicious person. He might have even thought he was maintaining a safe distance who knows. But he was obviously far enough back so he looses him. As for having a round chambered you obviously never owned an automatic he had a kal tec 9mm the clip holds 7 rounds and 1 in the chamber.Its common to keep a round chambered while carrying a pistol you remove it when you store it.Why do you keep a round chambered in ask you need to use it quickly like some one is bashing your head on the cement.Ill be honest i wasnt sure his life was in danger until i saw the pictures taken at the scene. He definitely had his head hit multiple times.



posted on Apr, 20 2012 @ 10:54 PM
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reply to post by Southern Guardian
 


Trayvon didn't have ANY wounds on him indicating he was attacked first, only the gunshot wound. Did Zimmerman attack Trayvon with the back of his head? You're right though, I don't know for sure who did what first, and neither do you. But the puzzle seems to be coming together more and more.

The case is falling apart, it's obvious Zimmerman is not a racist, and you guys are grasping at straws now. I'm sure you'll continue to do so, long after he's acquitted. Let's just hope when that happens more people don't die because of emotional reactionaries such as yourself that will never accept anything contrary to your belief.
edit on 20-4-2012 by 27jd because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 21 2012 @ 12:55 AM
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Originally posted by 27jd
reply to post by Southern Guardian
 


Trayvon didn't have ANY wounds on him indicating he was attacked first,


Hold on, the autopsy report isn't out yet so how do you know this? And why would there have to be wounds? Maybe Zimmerman physically pulled Martin back? Maybe he just pushed Martin? To initiate a confrontation, you don't have pull an actual punch or do actual harm.


I don't know for sure who did what first


No you don't, so maybe you should stop making assumptions.


I'm sure you'll continue to do so, long after he's acquitted.


Oh yes you betcha, Trayvon's parents will never forget what happened, his friends will never forget, his loved ones will never forget, there are plenty of folks around that will not forget. Zimmerman made a choice that night, and he's suffering the consequences as the result, his face was put up for everybody to see. He has himself to blame, and hopefully his supporters, like yourself, will think twice before thinking a permit for a gun is licence to harass anybody on the street.



posted on Apr, 21 2012 @ 01:49 AM
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Originally posted by Southern Guardian
Hold on, the autopsy report isn't out yet so how do you know this? And why would there have to be wounds? Maybe Zimmerman physically pulled Martin back? Maybe he just pushed Martin? To initiate a confrontation, you don't have pull an actual punch or do actual harm.




The funeral director who handled the body of Trayvon Martin in preparation for his burial has said that the young man showed no signs of the physical struggle alleged by George Zimmerman, who claims he shot the teenager in self defense. In an interview with CBS News, Florida funeral director Richard Kurtz said that Martin showed none of the signs normally associated with a fight.
www.rawstory.com...




No you don't, so maybe you should stop making assumptions.


I'm not making assumptions, I'm speculating based on the evidence available so far. Just like you are.



Oh yes you betcha, Trayvon's parents will never forget what happened, his friends will never forget, his loved ones will never forget, there are plenty of folks around that will not forget. Zimmerman made a choice that night, and he's suffering the consequences as the result, his face was put up for everybody to see. He has himself to blame, and hopefully his supporters, like yourself, will think twice before thinking a permit for a gun is licence to harass anybody on the street.


Ah, so even if the justice system finds him not guilty, you support vigilante action against him, for what you believe was vigilante action against Trayvon. Hypocrite. I don't need a permit here in AZ nor do I harass people, but if somebody is threatening my life or the life of a loved one I won't think twice about stopping them by any means necessary. And I'm not a "supporter" of Zimmerman, I'm just not one of the idiots who convicted him as a racist murderer before the facts were known.
edit on 21-4-2012 by 27jd because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 21 2012 @ 01:49 AM
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Originally posted by conspiracy nut
fact is the moment zim left his car to pursue tray he became the aggressor. i am using proffessional opinion of lawyers and the person that signed the law, i would assume the person that signed the law would have a better understanding of it than you or i.


and continuing the use of lawyers the AYG allows an aggressor to use deadly force when the amount of force used against him places him in imminent fear for his own life.

Since we dont know what occurred from the moment of contact to the moment police arrived, a defense cannot be simply ruled out because of the opinions of people who have the same amount of info we do.

Simply stating Governor, lawyers, professional lawyers, Jeb Bush etc over and over does not make your argument. Out of curiosity if the judges dont agree with your experts then what?



posted on Apr, 21 2012 @ 03:31 AM
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Originally posted by dragonridr

There was nothing wrong with him following a suspicious person.


You.
You and your loved ones.
You all look so suspicious to me.



posted on Apr, 21 2012 @ 03:39 AM
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Originally posted by LErickson

Originally posted by dragonridr

There was nothing wrong with him following a suspicious person.


You.
You and your loved ones.
You all look so suspicious to me.


and yet its still legal....



posted on Apr, 21 2012 @ 05:21 AM
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Originally posted by 27jd
I'm not making assumptions,


Yes you were, you already made the assumption that Trayvon initiated the confrontation, you already laid blame.

That link doesn't change my point either. Zimmerman may have been the one who made the first confrontation, he may have pulled or pushed Trayvon first, and this could have provoked Trayvon to attack. The fact is, the absence of physical injuries on Trayvon does not without a doubt conclude that he was the one that started the fight. The funeral director even lays doubt about whether Trayvon fought at all, so this doesn't fit with Zimmerman's accounts.

There will need to be an autopsy report before we can conclude anything, and this will only be released during the trial. Right now, there is no solid evidence out there proving that Trayvon started or provoked a fight.



Ah, so even if the justice system finds him not guilty, you support vigilante action


Don't lie about what I said on here, this isn't going to get your arguments anywhere


nor do I harass people


Good, then you won't have to worry about being exposed like Zimmerman was. I'm glad you know better.



posted on Apr, 21 2012 @ 07:07 AM
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Originally posted by Xcathdra

Originally posted by LErickson

Originally posted by dragonridr

There was nothing wrong with him following a suspicious person.


You.
You and your loved ones.
You all look so suspicious to me.


and yet its still legal....


As long as you are cool with the idea that I am going to shoot them if I feel like I am threatened while following them. You are following along and not just reacting one post at a time, right?



posted on Apr, 21 2012 @ 08:28 AM
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Originally posted by Southern Guardian
Yes you were, you already made the assumption that Trayvon initiated the confrontation, you already laid blame.


No I didn't. I'm speculating based off of all the facts and evidence we have so far. I'm fully open to the idea that Zimmerman initiated it, as soon as some evidence to support that surfaces.



Zimmerman may have been the one who made the first confrontation, he may have pulled or pushed Trayvon first, and this could have provoked Trayvon to attack.


May have. But at this point that doesn't seem likely to me. Other alleged events point to Trayvon being an aggressive young man, such as the tweet from his cousin in all it's grammatical splendor..."yu ain't tell me yu swung on a bus driver". The incident supposedly involved punching a female bus driver in the face, but the school, probably not wanting the school and kids to come under threat from "justice seekers" like yourself, is tight lipped about it. So who knows, but it's just another unclear piece to the puzzle.



The funeral director even lays doubt about whether Trayvon fought at all, so this doesn't fit with Zimmerman's accounts.


The picture of the two bleeding wounds on the back of Zimmerman's head tell a different story. And just seems to support the advantage Trayvon had on Zimmerman physically, one punch to the face dropped him, and then he started smacking his head on the ground.



There will need to be an autopsy report before we can conclude anything, and this will only be released during the trial. Right now, there is no solid evidence out there proving that Trayvon started or provoked a fight.


This I can agree with, there's no conclusive evidence as to whom started it. I'm all for waiting until I make my final personal judgement.



Don't lie about what I said on here, this isn't going to get your arguments anywhere


Lying? Go back and read what you typed, it seemed pretty clear to me.



Good, then you won't have to worry about being exposed like Zimmerman was. I'm glad you know better.


Exposed? As what? What exactly are you insinuating?



posted on Apr, 21 2012 @ 11:39 AM
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Originally posted by LErickson

Originally posted by Xcathdra

Originally posted by LErickson

Originally posted by dragonridr

There was nothing wrong with him following a suspicious person.


You.
You and your loved ones.
You all look so suspicious to me.


and yet its still legal....


As long as you are cool with the idea that I am going to shoot them if I feel like I am threatened while following them. You are following along and not just reacting one post at a time, right?


Really dont see how thats relative to the case people are followed every day. In fact thats the job of most private investigators. Just because you dont believe it to be right and try to come up with scenarios to prove your point is irrelevent to this case. Bottom line is its not illegal to follow someone for any reason. If we live in a society where we start trying to arrest people for possible intent then are freedoms are gone.



posted on Apr, 21 2012 @ 11:49 AM
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Originally posted by Southern Guardian

Originally posted by 27jd
I'm not making assumptions,


Yes you were, you already made the assumption that Trayvon initiated the confrontation, you already laid blame.

That link doesn't change my point either. Zimmerman may have been the one who made the first confrontation, he may have pulled or pushed Trayvon first, and this could have provoked Trayvon to attack. The fact is, the absence of physical injuries on Trayvon does not without a doubt conclude that he was the one that started the fight. The funeral director even lays doubt about whether Trayvon fought at all, so this doesn't fit with Zimmerman's accounts.

There will need to be an autopsy report before we can conclude anything, and this will only be released during the trial. Right now, there is no solid evidence out there proving that Trayvon started or provoked a fight.



Ah, so even if the justice system finds him not guilty, you support vigilante action


Don't lie about what I said on here, this isn't going to get your arguments anywhere


nor do I harass people


Good, then you won't have to worry about being exposed like Zimmerman was. I'm glad you know better.


The State all ready tried to make the assumption that zimmerman initiated the confrontation. But it didnt work out well for the state O'Mara all ready shot a huge hole in the states case and no one even realized it. In the affidavit the state claimed zimmerman initiated the confrontation, but then O'Mara got the lead investigator Dale Gilbreath to admit his affidavit was wrong. People dont realize but he already won the case during the bond hearing. As soon as Gilbreath admitted he didnt know who started the fight and has no evidence to prove who started the fight proves that the affidavit was nothing more then speculation.

Oh one more thing everyone missed O'mara asked the lead investigator if he has any evidence that conflicts with the suggestion that zimmerman turned away from Treyvon and went back to his car? His answer NO
These 2 point show the state has no case and is prosecuting him for political reasons. He doesnt even need to use the stand your ground law now it just went into a simple case of self defense.
edit on 4/21/12 by dragonridr because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 21 2012 @ 09:26 PM
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Originally posted by 27jd

Originally posted by Southern Guardian
Yes you were, you already made the assumption that Trayvon initiated the confrontation, you already laid blame.


No I didn't. I'm speculating based off of all the facts


Saying that Trayvon is at fault in this incident, even though there is no solid evidence to prove this other than Zimmerman's words, are not merely speculation. You know what you said, you've clearly made up your mind over what happened that night.



May have.


Exactly, may have. This is all we have. You've already laid blame on Trayvon even though you don't have evidence who started the incident, and I've stated that the jury is still out.


Other alleged events point to Trayvon being an aggressive young man, such as the tweet from his cousin in all it's grammatical splendor..."yu ain't tell me yu swung on a bus driver". The incident supposedly involved punching a female bus driver in the face,


Do you have a source that Trayvon actually did this?



The picture of the two bleeding wounds on the back of Zimmerman's head tell a different story. And just seems to support the advantage Trayvon had on Zimmerman physically, one punch to the face dropped him, and then he started smacking his head on the ground.


Hold on. That previous link you gave me stated that the Funeral director saw no indication on Trayvon's body that he punched or attacked anybody, so which is it? You can't use the funeral dirctors words only when it suits your arguments. As for the bleeding head in the picture, this will be presented in the courts, until then we can only speculate. Just because Zimmerman was bleeding in the head, does not automatically mean that he didn't start the confrontation, or that Trayvon was even the one that knocked him.



This I can agree with, there's no conclusive evidence as to whom started it.


So then why did you lay blame on Trayvon?

Originally posted by 27jd
But, Trayvon did not do the right thing either, regardless how "scared" he may have been


How do you know exactly what Trayvon did that night? This statement from you contradicts the one quoted above. Maybe you should try alittle harder in not making assumptions about this case.



Go back and read what you typed, it seemed pretty clear to me.


Where's it clear? If you're not lying then quote where I stated that I supported a revenge attack on Zimmerman.



Exposed? As what? What exactly are you insinuating?


Oh you know what I'm insinuating. Carrying a loaded gun just for 'defense' does not absolve you from the accountability of taking a life. Zimmerman is learning this the hard way. You don't need to worry though, I'm sure you're much more of a responsibile gun owner.



posted on Apr, 21 2012 @ 09:43 PM
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Originally posted by dragonridr
The State all ready tried to make the assumption that zimmerman initiated the confrontation. But it didnt work out well for the state O'Mara all ready shot a huge hole in the states case and no one even realized it.


The hearing was about whether Zimmerman would be a dangerous to the public if released on bail, clearly Zimmerman wasn't. He was negligent for what he did that night, careless, but even I don't believe he killed Trayvon because he just 'felt' like killing somebody that night. The real guts of the case are yet to be drawn out.

We already know that Zimmerman had motive to start the confrontation. He was already well suspicious that Trayvon was up to something, he even stated that Trayvon was 'looking' at him and then he was 'running away' to which he then admitted he was 'following' Trayvon who he believed was on the run from him. As for Trayvon? All we know is that he was unarmed and that he wasn't breaking any laws, we also know without a doubt that Zimmerman was the one who shot him. We have what is believed to be a picture of Zimmerman's bleeding head, but this only adds to evidence that there was a struggle (the authenticity of the pictures will be put up to examination). As to the severity of the wounds if any? This can only come from the EMT report.


He doesnt even need to use the stand your ground law now it just went into a simple case of self defense.


I beg to differ. He threw away the claim of self defense the minute he decided to persue Trayvon who he believed was running away (the dispatcher asked if Zimmerman was 'following' Trayvon). He should have just stayed put in his truck, because when he got out, he knew full well what kind of the situation he was putting himself into, especially when he tried to keep up with Trayvon who eventually 'ran away'. Zimmerman's actions weren't those of 'self defense', despite what twisted logic his supporters may have. I also doubt very strongly he would have been so willing in tracking down Trayvon if he didn't have a loaded gun with him, just my personal take.

Personally I believe he'll be let off the hook by the courts, because the system is broken in my opinion. Fortunately he has not gotten away with his actions scot free, there are people who will never forget what he did. I commend the folks, his parents, and even the media for bringing this case to light. There were many people who tried to sweep this case under the rug because, ya know, those young blacks are always up to no good anyway. Had it not been the efforts of his parents and many people in the community for bringing this to light, Trayvon would have been another dead teen labelled a 'thug' on the street.

Times are changing, and Zimmerman is paying for his actions one way or another. Zimmerman will either spend some time in jail, or be released and will have to live with a change in life style, hiding.
edit on 21-4-2012 by Southern Guardian because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 22 2012 @ 04:05 AM
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reply to post by Southern Guardian
 


The reason why he can use self defense is because as the lead investigator admitted he cant prove Zimmerman didnt stop following him and was returning to his truck. This leads to the possibility that Treyvon returned to confront him making this a case of self defense. And believe me O'Mara will argue exactly that because thats the reason he asked the question in the first place. All he has to do is convince 1 juror that Treyvon returned after the 911 call and this case is over.

And contrary to your beliefs he is Innocent until proven guilty sounds like you decided hes guilty but going to get away with it. Look at the case O'Mara got the lead investigator to admit he cant prove George started the fight and he cant prove George didnt stop following him when asked to do so. Thats the whole case they made in the affidavit what more is there?
edit on 4/22/12 by dragonridr because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 22 2012 @ 04:10 AM
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Originally posted by dragonridr
reply to post by Southern Guardian
 


The reason why he can use self defense is because as the lead investigator admitted he cant prove Zimmerman didnt stop following him and was returning to his truck. This leads to the possibility that Treyvon returned to confront him making this a case of self defense. And believe me O'Mara will argue exactly that because thats the reason he asked the question in the first place. All he has to do is convince 1 juror that Treyvon returned after the 911 call and this case is over.


So I can shoot anyone I want and claim they were going to kill me and then you have to prove that they were not trying to kill me in order to get me on charges? Sweet!
I am pretty sure you are wrong because you know, that makes no #ing sense at all.



posted on Apr, 22 2012 @ 04:14 AM
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Originally posted by LErickson

Originally posted by dragonridr
reply to post by Southern Guardian
 


The reason why he can use self defense is because as the lead investigator admitted he cant prove Zimmerman didnt stop following him and was returning to his truck. This leads to the possibility that Treyvon returned to confront him making this a case of self defense. And believe me O'Mara will argue exactly that because thats the reason he asked the question in the first place. All he has to do is convince 1 juror that Treyvon returned after the 911 call and this case is over.


So I can shoot anyone I want and claim they were going to kill me and then you have to prove that they were not trying to kill me in order to get me on charges? Sweet!
I am pretty sure you are wrong because you know, that makes no #ing sense at all.


In order for the state to prosecute him they have to prove it was not self defense. If you think thats right or wrong is immaterial its the legal system. The accused doesn't have to prove there innocent the prosecutor has to prove there guilty. And trust me you wouldnt want it the other way around!



posted on Apr, 22 2012 @ 04:24 AM
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Originally posted by LErickson
As long as you are cool with the idea that I am going to shoot them if I feel like I am threatened while following them. You are following along and not just reacting one post at a time, right?


If by following along with your post you are referring to your comparison of an apple to a smurf then sure. Your argument is not based on what actually occured, unless you can provide us with a source that states Zimmerman followed Martin with the intent of shooting him because he felt threatened.

If Zimmerman felt threatened then why would he follow Martin?
If Martin felt threatened then why did he not call 911?



posted on Apr, 22 2012 @ 05:05 AM
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Originally posted by dragonridr

Originally posted by LErickson

Originally posted by dragonridr
reply to post by Southern Guardian
 


The reason why he can use self defense is because as the lead investigator admitted he cant prove Zimmerman didnt stop following him and was returning to his truck. This leads to the possibility that Treyvon returned to confront him making this a case of self defense. And believe me O'Mara will argue exactly that because thats the reason he asked the question in the first place. All he has to do is convince 1 juror that Treyvon returned after the 911 call and this case is over.


So I can shoot anyone I want and claim they were going to kill me and then you have to prove that they were not trying to kill me in order to get me on charges? Sweet!
I am pretty sure you are wrong because you know, that makes no #ing sense at all.


In order for the state to prosecute him they have to prove it was not self defense. If you think thats right or wrong is immaterial its the legal system. The accused doesn't have to prove there innocent the prosecutor has to prove there guilty. And trust me you wouldnt want it the other way around!


And they will do that once the FBI 911 tape analysis comes out and it 100% proves Trayvon was screaming for his life, as I suspect they will. And when that happens.....2nd degree murder conviction. Once they prove it is Trayvon screaming for his life, they don't have to prove Zimmerman provoked it, the screams prove that.

Science is not Zimmermans friend in this case.





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