George Zimmerman to be charged in Trayvon Martin shooting, official says

Originally posted by pizzanazi75
1. Yeah thats why he tried contacting the SP himself, Hannity himself, and now wants to meet with the Martins personally. Public backlash is for sure getting to him.

Only if you are speculating then sure.

Originally posted by pizzanazi75
2. Im allowed to state personal opinions anytime I want. I don't have to justify them or provide any type of source just because you ask. When its my opinion, I state that, when it needs a source, I provide that. You can't say the same. We can all go back and read the post and see exactly where myself and others have pointed out your flat out lies. My personal opinions are mine and im allowed to have them and express them. Sorry if you don't like the source.

Actually you pass them off as facts and cannot support them when challenged, at which point you launch into a tirade of accusations and insults.

So what you are stating now is when you stated Zimmerman was caving to public pressure, that it was your opinion and not fact?

Originally posted by Xcathdra

Originally posted by pizzanazi75
1. Yeah thats why he tried contacting the SP himself, Hannity himself, and now wants to meet with the Martins personally. Public backlash is for sure getting to him.

Only if you are speculating then sure.

Originally posted by pizzanazi75
2. Im allowed to state personal opinions anytime I want. I don't have to justify them or provide any type of source just because you ask. When its my opinion, I state that, when it needs a source, I provide that. You can't say the same. We can all go back and read the post and see exactly where myself and others have pointed out your flat out lies. My personal opinions are mine and im allowed to have them and express them. Sorry if you don't like the source.

Actually you pass them off as facts and cannot support them when challenged, at which point you launch into a tirade of accusations and insults.

So what you are stating now is when you stated Zimmerman was caving to public pressure, that it was your opinion and not fact?

Please point to when I ever said he was caving to public backlash was a fact. This is what I said in regards to the public backlash.....

I agree with you, I think alot of his remorse is coming from the public backlash.

For someone so well versed in the English language you should be able to read that above sentence and know that I am stating my personal opinion. The continued use of the word 'I' should have been the true indicator for you. I have never claimed it as fact. Just because you want to come back and accuse me of claiming it as fact does not make it true. That is you again trying to twist and manipulate a situation. I know the difference between my personal opinion and a fact regarding this case, you have proven you don't.

Its getting real old even replying to you. You come in daily with something new to try and detract from the conversation and add nothing new, in fact add in correct information, such as the bail hearing having already been held. That also wasn't a typo. How do you mistype 'was' for 'is'....i mean come on. And how do mistake in your mind a court hearing that hasn't happened yet to mistype the word 'is' for the word 'was' ... you don't. What you do is then come back and try to defend yourself for once again posting incorrect information. Then you accuse everyone else of personal attacks. Its not a personal attack when someone calls out your disgusting bad behavior. Only the person being called out would think that is a personal attack.

Having said all of that. Ill continue to point out anything you say that is wrong, incorrect, or lies. Beyond that I will not be responding to you any longer. You can't keep up with the information, and you provide wrong information, and you derail the conversation, you accuse others of not being able to read when you are the one not reading, and you deny all logic. I don't have time to have conversations with people who aren't really interested in truth and facts.

So until you next 'misspeak' .... you won't be hearing from me.

reply to post by Xcathdra


You posted incorrect information.
Your argument is that it is not incorrect just because it was all the information you had at the time.

So you are saying that your poor research makes things you post correct?

Originally posted by LErickson
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

You posted incorrect information.
Your argument is that it is not incorrect just because it was all the information you had at the time.

So you are saying that your poor research makes things you post correct?

Wow...cannot believe people are arguing over that minor point, still.

Xcathra wasn't right but he wasn't wrong either. He was relaying the best available information at the time. That doesn't mean he was lying or doing shoddy research. It means just that it was the best available.

But, most of the arguments in this thread haven't been about facts, rather proving someone wrong and petty personal disagreements.

ABC News has released a photo claiming show George Zimmerman's injuries the night of the shooting...

reply to post by WingedBull
Waiting for a poster to say that it is fake blood, photoshopped or that he just popped a zit or something.

Looks like blood to me.

ETA: Or they will say that it is Trayvon's blood.
Another reason that the prosecutor did not use the police report in the statement of probable cause, the police report reflected that Zimmerman was injured by Trayvon before the shooting.

Originally posted by butcherguy
reply to post by WingedBull

 

Waiting for a poster to say that it is fake blood, photoshopped or that he just popped a zit or something.

Looks like blood to me.

ETA: Or they will say that it is Trayvon's blood.
Another reason that the prosecutor did not use the police report in the statement of probable cause, the police report reflected that Zimmerman was injured by Trayvon before the shooting.

edit on 20-4-2012 by butcherguy because: To add.

Already occured -

Here

As far as the Detective goes he sank the prosecutions case today when he admitted that he has no idea who started the altercation. If he cannot state conclusively who started the altercation then there is no way to support depraved indifference to meet 2nd degree murder.

As far as the police report goes its not common to have a police report contradict a probable cause statement. A PC statement will be based in part off of the police report. The fact the 2 don't completely support each other is another hole in the PA's case.

Since the PA was not prepared to cross examine Zimmerman it didnt help their case either.

reply to post by Xcathdra

If he cannot state conclusively who started the altercation then there is no way to support depraved indifference to meet 2nd degree murder.

As I had expected.
Some high hurdles for the prosecution.

Originally posted by butcherguy
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

If he cannot state conclusively who started the altercation then there is no way to support depraved indifference to meet 2nd degree murder.

As I had expected.
Some high hurdles for the prosecution.

Thats an understatement... Supposing this does make it to trial I still don't see how the Pa is going to make their case. Zimmerman has to invoke self defense (SYG law) and his burden of proof is based on preponderance of the evidence. The PA then must counter that however their evidence criteria is a lot higher - proof beyond a reasonable doubt.

Not only does the Pa need to make their case that Zimmerman shot and killed Martin, they also have to overcome the self defense argument.

Right now - I dont see that happening. I am thinking this case will be done by May 29th.


ETA - The fact he was given bail and the fact the amount was so low also undermines the PA's case. The court is stating by their actions he is not a flight risk.

i have heard several lawyers, jeb bush and the person that wrote the SYG law say that zim wont be able to use that as his defense. the moment he left his car to pursue trayvon he became the aggressor. an aggressor cannot use self defense as his defense.

Originally posted by conspiracy nut
i have heard several lawyers, jeb bush and the person that wrote the SYG law say that zim wont be able to use that as his defense. the moment he left his car to pursue trayvon he became the aggressor. an aggressor cannot use self defense as his defense.

Which is irrelevent since its up to a judge to decide. The fact the defense team is using it as a defense clearly shows those people stating it does not apply are wrong.

Simply ignoring the facts because politicians are trying to do damage control for their own political futures is not very sound judgment.

A Govornor / Speak of the state House can scream to high heaven a law does not apply however in the end its nowhere near their area of responsibility and their opinions carry no weight.

Again, how can you claim we dont have all the evidence while at the same time arguing Zimmerman is not protected by the law because politicians say so? They dont have all the facts since they are not privy to the intricacies to the case.

Respectfully, how can you make an argument we dont have all the facts while at the same time arguing something doesnt apply?

Do you have all the facts?

You do understand the legislature was responsible for drafting the SYG law right?
You understand Gov. Jeb Bush was the person who signed it into law right?

Gee, I wonder why those people would be outspoken and try to shift blame.

fact is the moment zim left his car to pursue tray he became the aggressor. i am using proffessional opinion of lawyers and the person that signed the law, i would assume the person that signed the law would have a better understanding of it than you or i.

So, we'll wait patiently for those who said there was no injury to Zimmerman's head to come back for their hot plate of crow.

Murder 2 is even further out the window now.

reply to post by conspiracy nut


He wasn't pursuing, he was following. He did not intend to confront Martin, only keep tabs on his whereabouts until the police arrived. That is NOT illegal, nor is it aggressive. It is aggressive to punch somebody who you may believe is following you, and bash their head into the ground. That's the aggressive move.

The lead investigator Gaibreath questioned this morning HAD said in the past: “Zimmerman confronted Martin and a struggle ensued.” This was in the probable cause affidavit that got Zimmerman arrested and charged with second degree murder. Now TODAY he contradicted that by his statement answering to a question: Do you know who started the fight? HE DID NOT KNOW WHO STARTED THE FIGHT... this Gaibreath said on the stand! The Pros have got a huge problem now…The investigator has just thrown multiple wrenches in the works.

reply to post by 27jd


so you condone the fact that zim continued to "follow" tray even after being told not to by 911? i get it not listening to 911 is not a crime either. so zim did everything right? not following neighborhood watch protocol by leaving his vehicle to "follow" tray and carrying a loaded gun with one in the chamber? how conviiiiiiiiienient!

Originally posted by conspiracy nut
so you condone the fact that zim continued to "follow" tray even after being told not to by 911?

For the hundredth time, he was not "told not to". They said they don't need him to follow, but they are NOT officers and they do not issue orders. It was a suggestion, nothing more.

i get it not listening to 911 is not a crime either. so zim did everything right? not following neighborhood watch protocol by leaving his vehicle to "follow" tray and carrying a loaded gun with one in the chamber? how conviiiiiiiiienient!

No, he didn't do everything right, at all. Following Trayvon was not a smart thing to do. But, Trayvon did not do the right thing either, regardless how "scared" he may have been, you don't attack somebody you think is following you. And that's what turned it into a life and death struggle. If you really want to confront them, you don't walk up and say "you got a problem?", and start swinging. Instead, you should probably ask why it seems like they're following you, had he done that, Zimmerman could have explained his position, and Trayvon could have explained his and they may have ironed it all out without any bloodshed. And carrying a loaded gun in Florida, isn't illegal. I carry a loaded gun frequently here in AZ, mostly because I'm a gold prospector and I'm in areas with potentially hostile wildlife, and far from any help from 911.

Another interesting development in the case, in regards to Zimmerman being a racist (from Zimmerman's mom)...

She said her son also participated in a 2010 campaign to "get justice" for an African-American homeless man who was seen in a videotape taken by an onlooker being struck by a man who later turned out to be the son of a Sanford police lieutenant.

"He went to churches. He put fliers on cars" and organized a meeting seeking help for the man, his mother testified.

He was recognized by the city for his efforts, his mother said.

www.cnn.com...

Originally posted by WingedBull

Originally posted by LErickson
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

You posted incorrect information.
Your argument is that it is not incorrect just because it was all the information you had at the time.

So you are saying that your poor research makes things you post correct?

Wow...cannot believe people are arguing over that minor point, still.

Xcathra wasn't right but he wasn't wrong either. He was relaying the best available information at the time. That doesn't mean he was lying or doing shoddy research. It means just that it was the best available.

But, most of the arguments in this thread haven't been about facts, rather proving someone wrong and petty personal disagreements.

edit on 20-4-2012 by WingedBull because: (no reason given)

That is so not true. The best available information at the time he posted was the correct information, it was available. I had posted the information 5 hours prior to him. How can you defend that?

Originally posted by 27jd
reply to post by conspiracy nut

 

He wasn't pursuing, he was following.

Yes, Zimmerman was merely following Trayvon who he believed was running away.

He did not intend to confront Martin,

Exactly how do you know this? Were you there that night? Did you see what exactly went on? Zimmerman claimed that he did not start the confrontation, this is his claim and his claim alone. Nobody can account for it. What we do know was that Zimmerman already suspected Trayvon of wrong doing.