George Zimmerman to be charged in Trayvon Martin shooting, official says

Even Harvard Law Professor Alan Dershowitz (by no means a right wing hack) has stated that the PC statement is thin and a good judge would throw it out.
www.realclearpolitics.com...

Listen to the interview, Dershowitz says that a good judge will throw this out, and hammers the prosecutor for overcharging and basically being a politician.

Originally posted by Xcathdra
reply to post by ker2010

 

Differences in size / weight is a factor but the a deal breaker. Just because a person is small does not mean they cant fight. A person who is obese does not mean they cant fight.

If people want to make that argument then it needs to be based on more than their size differences.

Totality of circumstances....

I have watched a 5'4 female police officer take down a 6'2 240 college football player at a party. Other considerations are a persons experiences when it comes to fighting (professional / MMA / martial arts etc etc).

Using looks alone to determine a threat is a bad idea.

I dont know how to say this without coming off as people will claim a internet tough guy. But i know my life experiences and dont have to prove a damn thing anybody up here. I grew up in a college town and bounced at a bar / pool hall that my cousin owned that had a very diverse mixed crowd of regulars with just me and another bouncer during my younger years. Get college kids, rednecks, blacks and a few Mexicans in the same place and throw in some liquor.


Ive seen more than my share of altercations and been in more than my share of tussles in the bar and on the street.

No one said a smaller guy isnt dangerous, i seen many times where a smaller guy got the better of a larger one.

But i do not believe Martin had any mma, boxing, or any form of marital arts training.

And I have not seen any injury's upon Zimmermans person that would require me to believe he needed to shoot Trayvon.

People get their cans kicked every weekend in bar fights and club altercations. Some require a ambulance and ER visits, some require them going home and cooling off and sobering up.

BUT most of them do not end in shootings, most of them feel like # the next day and are sore as hell but they do live, heal up and go on in life.

I say this with complete unbiased, I do not or have not seen any injurys that would lead me to believe Zim had to kill martin.

Ive seen much worse and ive been in much worse and I never shot anybody.

Im open to the proof of these serious injury's being displayed as evidence in court. And a broken nose and little scrape doesnt warrant feeling your life is in danger and shooting said person imo.


My guess is this will end in a manslaughter charge.

I am on Treyvons side until I see evidence of a situation where any average person would rightfully fear for their life. I haven't seen it yet but im open for it.

reply to post by butcherguy


I don't see anyone saying football players are not athletic.

But you're arguing Zimmerman was an obese out of shape slump of a guy and he clearly is not. My thoughts, judging by his recent police station video from the night of the incident, he could have easily held his own against Martin.

In all honesty, in yesterday's courtroom video it looks like he has lost some serious muscle tone and weight since that video of him at the police station, which would be understandable considering what he has been through in the last month.

Originally posted by Xcathdra

Please cite your source for this info -

The case was actually closed, at the insistence of Police Chief Bill Lee and State Attorney Norman Wolfinger. If no national outrage had occurred, everything would have been swept right under the rug.

This fact that Wolfinger declined to prosecute due to "lack of evidence" and a presumed "difficulty in attaining a conviction" has been reported in virtually every article in relation to this case. Look it up yourself.

Do you think that if national outrage hadn't forced his hand, that anything would have been done to further the case? Absolutely not. GZ would have gone about his merry way, harassing more black men, and the paperwork for the Trayvon case would have been filed, and then forgotten. Nothing else would have proceeded.

reply to post by CoherentlyConfused

In all honesty, in yesterday's courtroom video it looks like he has lost some serious muscle tone and weight since that video of him at the police station, which would be understandable considering what he has been through in the last month.

Honestly, can't you see where people might get confused? Someone just compared him to John Cena in a post, now you have stated that he has lost serious muscle tone and weight from seeing his court appearance.

Is it possible for someone to suckerpunch John Cena?
If someone did, then jumped on him while he was down and bashed his head into the ground, would he have any reason to fear for his life?

reply to post by ker2010


You must remember my friend some people here must be very fragile and small and see Trayvon as John Cena

reply to post by butcherguy


I used Cena as an example that someone's weight does not equal obesity. You're so comfortable saying Zimmerman is fat, borderline obese, since you claim he weighs 200lbs. I was pointing out your error.

Please show me where I was comparing Zimmerman to Cena? LOL (Yet, somehow I just knew you'd say I was. Good job in missing my point.)

It's a pointless argument anyway but I didn't start it.

Originally posted by Cosmic911
there aren't a lot of good reasons for those charges to have been delayed like this, right?

Right. That's why so many people have characterized the actions of the SPD after the shooting as a cover-up. There's no denying it.

reply to post by CoherentlyConfused

I don't see anyone saying football players are not athletic.

The quote that follows was from this post.

Football emphasizes physical fitness for PROFESSIONAL athletes. Playing JV or even Varsity high school football isn't a professional.

What they said, in so many words, was that you have to be a pro football player to use any emphasis on physical fitness. I wouldn't have kept on that track if it weren't for that post.

reply to post by CoherentlyConfused
I didn't miss your point.

By using Cena as an example, you were either intimating a similarity or difference between Zimmerman and him.

Which was it?

reply to post by shepseskaf


I asked for a source because of the manner in which you posted it. You insinuated that the Police Chief and PA conspired with each other to make the case go away. I made a post asking why a person felt their was a police cover up.

Now you are stating something different.

Is it your position that the Police and PA conspired together to cover up this crime and to protect Zimmerman? If so why and based on what?

As for the continued comments about a national outrage oh well. The law is not a popularity contest and should never be treated as such. If the PA declines to prosecute due to lack of evidence then thats the way it goes.

Originally posted by shepseskaf

Originally posted by Cosmic911
there aren't a lot of good reasons for those charges to have been delayed like this, right?

Right. That's why so many people have characterized the actions of the SPD after the shooting as a cover-up. There's no denying it.

Amazing how you are quick to accuse others of lying and making up facts.

Please show us where a Police cover up occurred / was occurring.

Originally posted by khimbar

Originally posted by InfoKartel
Who in their right minds, DEFENDS A MURDERER?!?!

Sorry, I might be a bit behind here but has the verdict been announced and he's already been found guilty then?

Do you have a link to it please?

It seems you do not understand. He took the life of a person. He murdered a person. He did not kill him. Why? Because there were countless moments before the murder occurred that he could have prevented it, by calling the cops, listening to the dispatcher, not going after him. Instead he chose to call Trayvon names. He chose to discriminate. He chose to do what he did. Even though there were countless moments where he could have decided to not approach.

To me that much is clear. You might need to do some research or get some life experience.

reply to post by Xcathdra


*Mumbles something about schizophrenics*

Yes, two opinions, varying widely, held by the same person. And you wonder why the system is messed up. Enforcing double think...wow.

reply to post by butcherguy


You provided a link to a BMI calculator. Going by that calculator, Cena is obese. THAT was my point. But you know that and you're just poking at me, so have fun with that.

Let's say---just for fun---the incident happened between Urkel from Family Matters and John Cena. Does that make a difference in what happened? The only thing that matters is who initiated contact.

Since Zimmerman took it upon himself to pursue Martin, he is the initial aggressor of the entire incident, fat slob or buff body builder. Your entire argument is meaningless to begin with.

Originally posted by InfoKartel

Originally posted by khimbar

Originally posted by InfoKartel
Who in their right minds, DEFENDS A MURDERER?!?!

Sorry, I might be a bit behind here but has the verdict been announced and he's already been found guilty then?

Do you have a link to it please?

It seems you do not understand. He took the life of a person. He murdered a person. He did not kill him. Why? Because there were countless moments before the murder occurred that he could have prevented it, by calling the cops, listening to the dispatcher, not going after him. Instead he chose to call Trayvon names. He chose to discriminate. He chose to do what he did. Even though there were countless moments where he could have decided to not approach.

To me that much is clear. You might need to do some research or get some life experience.

You can of course prove this all of this beyond all reasonable doubt? Since it is so clear to you?

I'm not quite sure what the evocation to 'get some life experience' is all about, especially given you have no idea the baseline I'm starting from. Could you clarify, in actual terms rather than vagaries?

My thanks.

Originally posted by Xcathdra

I asked for a source because of the manner in which you posted it. You insinuated that the Police Chief and PA conspired with each other to make the case go away. I made a post asking why a person felt their was a police cover up.

Now you are stating something different.

Is it your position that the Police and PA conspired together to cover up this crime and to protect Zimmerman? If so why and based on what?

As for the continued comments about a national outrage oh well. The law is not a popularity contest and should never be treated as such. If the PA declines to prosecute due to lack of evidence then thats the way it goes.

I'm not saying a single thing that's different. I've stated from the outset that there was a lot wrong with the investigation and that many persons were alleging a cover-up -- which I believed to be the truth.

On the night in question, State Attorney Normal Wolfinger drove 50 miles down to Sanford and met with Police Chief Bill Lee. I'm given to understand that this was not a usual occurrence. There are allegations that GZ's father may have also been present at that meeting. After the meeting, the decision was made to ignore the lead detective's recommendations, and not arrest or charge GZ.

Obviously, this situation just screams collusion and cover-up. I could cite dozens or sources stating cogent reasons for believing so, but they're opinion pieces. Straight news articles alluded to the situation when they covered both Lee and Wolfinger stepping aside, so they wouldn't be "distractions" in the case.

None of this is rocket science. I've already listed a number of things that were not done in the case; evidence that was not followed up on; sources of vital information that were not spoken to, etc.

Lastly, I don't have the time to go back and forth with you on this, as I'm actually busy and have business to take care of. Typing on a message board all day is not an option for me.

We'll see how the case proceeds, but I'll say that I have very little regard for your pronouncements regarding police and court procedure. Your contrived stance of impartiality is obviously bogus.

reply to post by shepseskaf


Affidavit alleges George Zimmerman 'confronted' Trayvon Martin

And prosecutors interviewed a friend of Martin's who was talking to him by phone just before the shooting. The affidavit says Martin told the friend he was being followed and was scared.

Martin tried to run home, the affidavit says, but was followed by Zimmerman. "Zimmerman got out of his vehicle and followed Martin," the affidavit said.


Read more: www.foxnews.com...

and

Mark O'Mara, Zimmerman's attorney, said his client would plead not guilty and invoke Florida's so-called "stand your ground" law, which gives people wide latitude to use deadly force rather than retreat during a fight.

Read more: www.foxnews.com...

She was interviewed and the defense is using the stand your ground law.

Are you ever going to remain on topic and stop the personal attacks? Or is that the only way you know how to communicate with people?

Again, grow up and act your age.

reply to post by Xcathdra


I don't even know what those articles you're linking pertain specifically to. Its impossible to carry on an edifying discussion with someone who has no logical dexterity, and keeps reiterating the same points ad nauseum.

reply to post by CoherentlyConfused

The only thing that matters is who initiated contact.

Very good!

As far as I know, there is only one living witness to that. George Zimmerman.

In order to prove that he committed second degree murder, they must show (beyond a reasonable doubt) that George Zimmerman "evinced a depraved mind, regardless of human life", according to the Florida statute.

The unlawful killing of a human being, when perpetrated by any act imminently dangerous to another and evincing a depraved mind regardless of human life, although without any premeditated design to effect the death of any particular individual, is murder in the second degree and constitutes a felony of the first degree, punishable by imprisonment for a term of years not exceeding life or as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

Florida statute