George Zimmerman to be charged in Trayvon Martin shooting, official says

Originally posted by shepseskaf
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

Do you even read what you're typing? I don't have time to correct all of it, but what you're saying about police procedure as it relates to the way GZ was treated by the SPD is just blatantly incorrect -- and all of it is weighted in GZ's favor. What a surprise.

You're pontificating on this board like you possess so much knowledge, but really all you're doing is revealing how little you know.

Thats not what I said. Quit being lazy and read the posts before commenting.

Secondly how about you stop the name calling and accusations and actually use facts and sources to refute my posts. I have only seen you disagree and then troll while offering up no info to support your position. Or are you using the old cant refute the facts so attack the poster plan?

Originally posted by DZAG Wright
reply to post by Deranged74

 

Truth.com!

That's a hardware store. ??

Originally posted by butcherguy
reply to post by CoherentlyConfused

 

So taking away your fantasy of a middle-aged, overweight and out of shape guy against a buff football player, in real life, we have a very much in-shape, thin young man gunning down a 17 year old tall & thin young man.

I have corrected my error of calling Zimmerman middle-aged in a separate post.

Regarding Zimmerman's weight, he was 5' 9'' and 200 pounds at the time of the shooting. He was overweight, bordering on obese. not what I would call 'very much in shape and thin'.

Check it out for yourself: US Department of Health and Human Services

Thats depends on muscle mass ratio and bf%!!!!! Either way Zim was heavier and bigger than Martin mass wise.

Originally posted by Deranged74
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

Why dont you show your unbiased and throw some facts out that could put Zimmerman away.

See thats what I dont get, Zimmermen is alive to defend himself and he has hired real lawyers. Why not defend Trayvon once.

edit on 13-4-2012 by Deranged74 because: (no reason given)

Are you guys going to read anything or just keep asking / making the same comments / questions over and over and over.

Tell you what - lets try this out.

Make your argument using the law, not personal opinion or morals, as to why you think Zimmerman is guilty.

Originally posted by CoherentlyConfused
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

Yes - A person cannot be forced to provide a sample. If they are its a 4th amendment violation

Assuming they asked for a sample and he said no.

If he has nothing to hide, why wouldn't he give one if they asked? Maybe they didn't ask.

The "if they have nothing to hide" argument is a slippery slope one. A person who refuses to cooperate and not give the police what they want does not indicate guilt.

Secondly the nothing to hide argument ignores the fact Zimmerman is innocent. He has nothing to prove. Thats the job of the PA.

Originally posted by Deranged74

Actually no I have not but thanks for ignoring the posts. When you get time go back and read the posts and you will see what my position is.

Reading - Its our friend.. I highly encourage people to do it.

Good point us to your pro Martin posts.

Should I read it to you also?
My position

Again learn the difference between a factual based argument and a personal opinion.

reply to post by Xcathdra


Easy, under the SYG law it has been excluded because Zim pursued Martin. This is according to the man who wrote the law and the one who signed it in.

SYG law does not apply to Zim so lets throw it out.


Now Zim has to prove that he was in a life threatening situation that made him fear for his life and have to shoot a unarmed man. It would also do good for him to prove he didnt start said altercation.

Zim needs to show some injurys that would be considered in the realm of life threatening if they had continued to be delivered.

He needs to show a trip to the ER or something that verifys his so called beating would have ended in his possible death.


if he faisl to do this then are we to let him go on his word alone?

This is a very very scary scenario. It means I cant take someone i dont like somewhere private, shoot them and tell the police it was self defense. I would not have to plant a weapon or show any major injurys.

Originally posted by Deranged74

Originally posted by butcherguy
reply to post by CoherentlyConfused

 

So taking away your fantasy of a middle-aged, overweight and out of shape guy against a buff football player, in real life, we have a very much in-shape, thin young man gunning down a 17 year old tall & thin young man.

I have corrected my error of calling Zimmerman middle-aged in a separate post.

Regarding Zimmerman's weight, he was 5' 9'' and 200 pounds at the time of the shooting. He was overweight, bordering on obese. not what I would call 'very much in shape and thin'.

Check it out for yourself: US Department of Health and Human Services

Thats depends on muscle mass ratio and bf%!!!!! Either way Zim was heavier and bigger than Martin mass wise.

So now Zimmerman is a bodybuilder? Maybe he is a football player too!

You need to check out Zimmerman-hater posts all over the internet, they repeatedly call him an overweight 'cop-wannabe'. He is what he is, I am comfortable that I am not fantasizing when I say he was overweight.

reply to post by butcherguy



What determines obesity is the proportion of body fat to muscle, not simply what your weight is. Professional weight lifters are huge but they are not obese. John Cena is 6' tall and weighs 240 pounds. Going by your little link, he IS obese..

Look at the video from Zimmeman in court yesterday. Are you saying he's almost obese? He looks like he has been working out a lot over the last 5 years since that orange jumpsuit mugshot.

Originally posted by shepseskaf

Originally posted by Cosmic911
Sure thing, X. To clarify, I do not believe there was a police cover up.

Really? Seriously?

So, I suppose that federal officials are currently conducting a parallel investigation into possible violations of Trayvon Martin's civil rights because FBI agents like hanging out in Sanford? Or maybe they want to visit Disney World in nearby Orlando.

Hint: if it were obvious that the Sanford Police Department was on the up-and-up, and that their handling of this case was regarded as 'clean', the feds wouldn't be involved.

In fairness, the FBI is officially just looking into the civil rights issue, but by no means is SPD in the clear as far as cover-up allegations are concerned, for the reasons I outlined above.

Yes, I'm not interested in that part of the case. Because I'm armed citizen, I'm choosing to look at the case from the stand point from the law, such as the Stand Your Own Ground law, Castle Doctrine, and Use of Deadly Force. That interests me far more than anything conspiracy-related in this shooting. I'm not denying it exists, in fact, I did express my view that conspiracy theories will be generated because of the delay in the charges; and well, there aren't a lot of good reasons for those charges to have been delayed like this, right?

Originally posted by Deranged74
Easy, under the SYG law it has been excluded because Zim pursued Martin. This is according to the man who wrote the law and the one who signed it in.

Actually this means nothing. Its irrelevant if the sponsor of the bill claims a law does or does not apply to situations. The SYG law is part of this case and for good reasons. You cant reject it out of hand for one whil relying on it for the other.

Originally posted by Deranged74
SYG law does not apply to Zim so lets throw it out.

Please cite your source that states SYG cannot be used as a defense? Only a judge can limit how the defense presents their case. Simply ignoring the SYG does not mean it does not apply. It mvery much does.

Originally posted by Deranged74
Now Zim has to prove that he was in a life threatening situation that made him fear for his life and have to shoot a unarmed man. It would also do good for him to prove he didnt start said altercation.

No actually he does not. Zimmerman can invoke the self defense argument using the SYG law (affirmative defense).

The moment that issue is raised its incumbent on the PA to dismantle that assertion.

Originally posted by Deranged74
Zim needs to show some injurys that would be considered in the realm of life threatening if they had continued to be delivered.

This occured back in February so recent photos wont show brusinging.
Zimmerman has a gash on the back of his head.
The police reports documented Zimmerman's appearance - blood etc
According to the daily mail article I linked a few pages back it states the police took Zimmerman to the police station and interviewed him for a few hours. Zimmerman apparently asked to go to the hospital and the police said no (if anyone has other info that corrects that let me know).

Originally posted by Deranged74
He needs to show a trip to the ER or something that verifys his so called beating would have ended in his possible death.

No he does not...

So again, please use the law,, NOT personal opinions / moral views, and argue why Zimmerman is guilty.

reply to post by butcherguy


Take it from someone who has lifted and worked out off and on for 15+ years.

Zimmermen was not obese in his recent showing. In his older pictures yes he was fat as hell, but diet and working out can and does change that and it apparently did for Zimmermen.

And trayvon football player or not was far from being remotely muscular. The guy was a skinny kid and this is factual and can be proven by science. Martin lacked any serious muscle mass and anyone who has spent any time in the gym can look at his pics and deduct that.

To even argue this point is borderline lunacy.

reply to post by Xcathdra


And if the judge agrees SYG does not apply?

reply to post by ker2010


Differences in size / weight is a factor but the a deal breaker. Just because a person is small does not mean they cant fight. A person who is obese does not mean they cant fight.

If people want to make that argument then it needs to be based on more than their size differences.

Totality of circumstances....

I have watched a 5'4 female police officer take down a 6'2 240 college football player at a party. Other considerations are a persons experiences when it comes to fighting (professional / MMA / martial arts etc etc).

Using looks alone to determine a threat is a bad idea.

I posted this earlier in another thread. I thought it was interesting concerning SYG as a defense. People keep saying he doesn't have to prove anything but according to the lawyer in this article, he sure does.

According to this article ANALYSIS-Zimmerma ns challenge in citing Stand Your Ground, if he is charged and wishes to use the Stand Your Ground self-defense law, he'll have to show evidence that he was acting in self defense.

The first hurdle will be a special evidentiary hearing in front of a judge, where Zimmerman will have the opportunity to argue that he deserves immunity. But to convince the judge, Zimmerman will have to present a "preponderance of evidence" that he acted in self defense, which under the law means he has to show he had "reasonable belief" that such force was necessary

the "preponderance of evidence" standard defendants must clear puts the burden on the defendant. After losing an immunity motion for for one his clients who had been charged with aggravated assault, Orlando defense attorney Mark Horwitz argued to a Florida appeals court that burden should be on the prosecution to prove that the defendant did not act in self defense. The court disagreed.

Originally posted by ker2010
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

And if the judge agrees SYG does not apply?

Then Zimmerman can raise a self defense issue using the Murder 2 statute -
Homicide Statutes
Hence the reason Florida law is so jacked up. Since he is charged under Murder 2 they can make a defense using that section coupled with the evidence.

Reference -
SYG statutes

reply to post by CoherentlyConfused


That issue has to be invoked by the defendant through his lawyer. His lawyer will argue the case based on the evidence and testimony.

The PA is then required to prove that self defense does not apply and will have to dismantle the defense argument point by point. If the PA cannot do that then it would create doubt for the jurors..

The burden is still on the PA.

reply to post by ker2010

To even argue this point is borderline lunacy.

Thanks for backing me up.

We have posters here alluding that football players are not athletic.

I mentioned before, it isn't all about just muscle mass, weight, flexibility or speed. It is any combination of those and how they are used.

reply to post by CoherentlyConfused

Look at the video from Zimmeman in court yesterday. Are you saying he's almost obese?

Trayvon Martin was not killed yesterday. That happened months ago.

Zimmerman's condition yesterday does not indicate what his condition was on the night of the murder. Anyone got pics of a 'buff' Zimmerman from the time frame in question? I have yet to see Mr. Zimmerman: Bodybuilder pics yet, from any time frame.

reply to post by Deranged74


How do you know what exactly he had time for? Most people waste their time watching TV while this guy is out trying to keep his neighborhood safe. It's a fact that police don't do much of anything even after someone has been burglarized and apparently this particular neighborhood had a history of that. I wish I had the luxury of someone looking out for my home while I'm asleep. As far as what actually took place that night, ....You, myself, and anyone else in the entire world that wasn't there has nothing to add but opinion. You can join the circus if you want but don't for even a second think that you know the truth of what happened in this case. Unless you were there how can you say who threatened who. It will be decided in court if Trayvon was bashing Zimmerman's head or if Zimmerman was trigger happy. Almost everything at this point is speculation and the media has turned it into a frenzy for the gullible to get better ratings. I challenge you (if you truly want justice) to look away from this case and let it unfold without political or racial interference.
Just in case you want to know my opinion on who is at fault. I don't have one until all possible evidence is brought before judge and jury. I will say this though, someone has died and that should always be grounds for investigation. whether or not something like the stand your ground law is in play.