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George Zimmerman to be charged in Trayvon Martin shooting, official says

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posted on Apr, 13 2012 @ 08:32 AM
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Originally posted by Xcathdra
You guys are incapable of understanding the difference between arguing how the law / process works and whats involved and a persons actual position on the issue.

Oh please, wise and wonderful x, continue to grace us with your extensive knowledge.


What kind of "facts" will you be making up today? I'll be interested to see what you come up with.

By the way, no one is saying that under the law GZ isn't innocent until proven guilty. This is a message board, and people are discussing their views. Some think he's guilty, and some don't.

We all know that the court process will have to play itself out, so spare yourself the trouble of posting ponderous opuses about police and court procedure in the future.




posted on Apr, 13 2012 @ 08:33 AM
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Originally posted by shepseskaf
The police, to my knowledge, never interviewed the person who was on the phone with Trayvon at the time of the shooting.

Depending on Florida law its possible the police are prohibited from interviewing her. She is a minor and as such there is a completely different procedure in place. In my state we have to use a juvenile officer or permission from one to interview (on his behalf).

On the off chance Florida law is different then the question is valid. Its entirely possible that even if she were interviewed the info might not be allowed in court simply because she did not witness. Another poster pointed this out as well.



Originally posted by shepseskaf
When the cell phone was located, it should have been elementary for law enforcement to find out who the victim had been talking to and what the actual call time was according to the phone records.

The cell phone is evidence and is treated as such. Contrary to what people see on tv there are procedures for the collection / testing of evidence. For electronic items its usually turned over to forensics who specialize in technology. If an officer on scene is going through it and accidentally deletes something that evidence is no longer admissible in court. The department may also have a policy that prevents patrol officers from taking those actions, instead waiting on the detectives.



Originally posted by shepseskaf
GZ was never tested for alcohol or drugs, which should have been a basic step, to say the least -- especially in the case of a homicide. The police, though, made sure to test Trayvon for drugs, and the test was returned negative.

First off - Forcing a suspect to undergo a blood / urine test against their will is a 4th amendment violation. Any evidence gleaned from that is considered fruit of the poisonous tree and is inadmissible in court. Any other evidence that was discovered from an illegal test would also be excluded for the same reasons.

The Police do not test, the Coroner / ME does. Martin is tested because its a part of the autopsy. As I stated before just because a person is shot does not mean that is the sole cause of death (in this case the ME stated the gunshot was cause of death).



Originally posted by shepseskaf
According to reports, Trayvon's body was kept as an unidentified "John Doe" for three days, while his parents frantically tried to find out what happened to him. There are some indications that the police knew who he was, but deliberately did not notify his next of kin. We'll see if that's accurate.

Im not sure how to explain this one without it being 2 pages long. The body is evidence and is under the control of the coroner / ME. In some jurisdictions a deceased persons identity cannot be identified by a 3rd party and even if a person has Id on them, tests will still be done to ensure the person is identified correctly (case from a few years back where 1 girl was killed and the other girl survived and their identities were incorrect. Resulting in one family being told their daughter was alive when in reality she was not).



Originally posted by shepseskaf
The case was actually closed, at the insistence of Police Chief Bill Lee and State Attorney Norman Wolfinger. If no national outrage had occurred, everything would have been swept right under the rug.


Can you please link your source for that info. All of the information I have seen revolves around this -
Source

The lead detective investigating Trayvon Martin's death said his killer should have been arrested, but was told there would not be enough evidence to successfully prosecute.
Chris Serino, of Florida's Sanford Police Department, said he believed George Zimmerman should be charged with manslaughter for the February shooting of the unarmed 17-year-old in a gated community.

But the local state attorney overruled him, saying there was not enough evidence to convict him of the crime, which carries a maximum 15-year sentence.


Read more: www.dailymail.co.uk...




Originally posted by shepseskaf
You seem to be placing a lot of faith in the fact that Wolfinger declined to prosecute. There are lots and lots of questions surrounding that decision, which is why the Governor of Florida removed Wolfinger and appointed the Special Prosecutor. Was GZ's father involved at all in the decision? We'll find out.

Because a decline to prosecute is the decision of the PA and no one else. Its not often you see a PA decline to charge only to have a person appointed by the Governor go back and prosecute.

That opens up some major issues -
First and foremost it undermines the original PA and the ability to do his job.
Secondly it helps Zimmerman out by placing a disagreement between 2 prosecutors into the spotlight. One says there is not enough evidence to support manslaughter and you have the other filing murder 2 charges, which has a higher burden of proof.

If 2 PA's cant agree on the evidence, it creates doubt.




Originally posted by shepseskaf
Why did Wolfinger reject the recommendation to charge from lead investigator Chris Serino? In fact, Serino was so emphatic about his disagreement with the decision not to charge that he filed an affidavit -- way before any national outrage happened, so it wasn't because of any outside pressure being applied to him.

Many observers of this case smell both cover-up and prosecutorial misconduct surrounding the situation for the reasons I've outlined, and many more.

As I said before the police can file all the complaints they want. It does not change the fact the PA is the final say on who is charged and who is not.

Please support the cover up argument. What I see is you and some others jumping to a conclusion because of issues you guys have with the law.
edit on 13-4-2012 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 13 2012 @ 08:33 AM
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reply to post by Xcathdra
 



Zimmerman is innocent until proven guilty...


And so is Trayvon Martin!

You've already convicted him of being a street thug deserving of a mob-style execution.



posted on Apr, 13 2012 @ 08:37 AM
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reply to post by Xcathdra
 



First off - Forcing a suspect to undergo a blood / urine test against their will is a 4th amendment violation. Any evidence gleaned from that is considered fruit of the poisonous tree and is inadmissible in court. Any other evidence that was discovered from an illegal test would also be excluded for the same reasons. The Police do not test, the Coroner / ME does. Martin is tested because its a part of the autopsy. As I stated before just because a person is shot does not mean that is the sole cause of death (in this case the ME stated the gunshot was cause of death).

Thanks for that info, it hadn't occurred to me that would be the reason why things were done the way that they were.

It makes perfect sense now.



posted on Apr, 13 2012 @ 08:38 AM
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reply to post by Blackmarketeer
 


true true I find it funny they are defending the guy who is alive and breathing who can hire real lawyers to defend himself. But the guy cold and dead in the ground does not get the same benefit from Zim supporters.



edit on 13-4-2012 by Deranged74 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 13 2012 @ 08:39 AM
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Originally posted by Deranged74


A in shape 28 y/o yes look at him recently he isnt fat or out of shape shot and killed a unarmed 17 y/o who was a beanpole.

Thats all the facts i really need.



Good job you're not on the jury then. Or any jury come to think of it.
edit on 13-4-2012 by khimbar because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 13 2012 @ 08:41 AM
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Originally posted by Deranged74
reply to post by Xcathdra
 


Since you deal with law is it normal to drug test the victim and not the shooter?

Since your the expert and everything let me know.


Yes - A person cannot be forced to provide a sample. If they are its a 4th amendment violation.

Martins test was not performed by the police. Its performed by the ME / Coroner since that is their jurisdiction and not the police.



posted on Apr, 13 2012 @ 08:42 AM
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reply to post by Xcathdra
 


Do you even read what you're typing? I don't have time to correct all of it, but what you're saying about police procedure as it relates to the way GZ was treated by the SPD is just blatantly incorrect -- and all of it is weighted in GZ's favor. What a surprise.

You're pontificating on this board like you possess so much knowledge, but really all you're doing is revealing how little you know.



posted on Apr, 13 2012 @ 08:43 AM
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reply to post by khimbar
 


Show me the life threatening injurys that would condone a shooting.


Im waiting to see these life threatening injurys.

Other than life threatening injurys why would Zim have to shoot Martin?


Ill be waiting for these pics of stitches, broke face, broke jaw, or whatever etc etc. ER record visits etc
edit on 13-4-2012 by Deranged74 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 13 2012 @ 08:44 AM
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reply to post by Deranged74
 


Truth.com!



posted on Apr, 13 2012 @ 08:45 AM
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reply to post by Xcathdra
 


Why dont you show your unbiased and throw some facts out that could put Zimmerman away.

See thats what I dont get, Zimmermen is alive to defend himself and he has hired real lawyers. Why not defend Trayvon once.

edit on 13-4-2012 by Deranged74 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 13 2012 @ 08:45 AM
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Originally posted by Deranged74
reply to post by khimbar
 


Show me the life threatening injurys that would condone a shooting.


Im waiting to see these life threatening injurys.

Other than life threatening injurys why would Zim have to shoot Martin?


Ill be waiting for these pics of stitches, broke face, broke jaw, or whatever etc etc. ER record visits etc
edit on 13-4-2012 by Deranged74 because: (no reason given)


Show me first where I've said there were life threatening injuries?



posted on Apr, 13 2012 @ 08:46 AM
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reply to post by Xcathdra
 





Yes - A person cannot be forced to provide a sample. If they are its a 4th amendment violation


Assuming they asked for a sample and he said no.

If he has nothing to hide, why wouldn't he give one if they asked? Maybe they didn't ask.



posted on Apr, 13 2012 @ 08:47 AM
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Originally posted by shepseskaf
Oh please, wise and wonderful x, continue to grace us with your extensive knowledge.

I have been.. All that is left is for you to read the info.


Originally posted by shepseskaf
What kind of "facts" will you be making up today? I'll be interested to see what you come up with.

I have not made any facts up. Stop acting like a 3 year old while your at it.


Originally posted by shepseskaf
By the way, no one is saying that under the law GZ isn't innocent until proven guilty. This is a message board, and people are discussing their views. Some think he's guilty, and some don't.

Yes people in this thread has him guilty regardless of facts or evidence. Again you would know this if you spent more time reading posts and less time name calling.


Originally posted by shepseskaf
We all know that the court process will have to play itself out, so spare yourself the trouble of posting ponderous opuses about police and court procedure in the future.

Im good and will continue to post. If that irritates you because it undermines your position and exposes the fact you know nothing about police, courts, laws or procedures thats your problem.

Speaking of fale information and facts you didnt answer my question -

Please cite your source for this info -

The case was actually closed, at the insistence of Police Chief Bill Lee and State Attorney Norman Wolfinger. If no national outrage had occurred, everything would have been swept right under the rug.



posted on Apr, 13 2012 @ 08:48 AM
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reply to post by khimbar
 


Well you condone shooting unarmed men because of a little tussle?

I wonder how many shootings their would be every weekend in the usa if every bar, club fight ended up with someone shooting the other person? Thats what you are promoting isnt it?

Either the shooting was justified or it wasnt. The only way to justify shooting Martin is to show Zimmerman was in a immediate life threatening situation. And nothing shows that.



posted on Apr, 13 2012 @ 08:50 AM
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Originally posted by Blackmarketeer
reply to post by Xcathdra
 



Zimmerman is innocent until proven guilty...


And so is Trayvon Martin!

You've already convicted him of being a street thug deserving of a mob-style execution.


Actually no I have not but thanks for ignoring the posts. When you get time go back and read the posts and you will see what my position is.

Reading - Its our friend.. I highly encourage people to do it.



posted on Apr, 13 2012 @ 08:52 AM
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Actually no I have not but thanks for ignoring the posts. When you get time go back and read the posts and you will see what my position is.

Reading - Its our friend.. I highly encourage people to do it.


Good point us to your pro Martin posts.



posted on Apr, 13 2012 @ 08:52 AM
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reply to post by CoherentlyConfused
 



So taking away your fantasy of a middle-aged, overweight and out of shape guy against a buff football player, in real life, we have a very much in-shape, thin young man gunning down a 17 year old tall & thin young man.

I have corrected my error of calling Zimmerman middle-aged in a separate post.

Regarding Zimmerman's weight, he was 5' 9'' and 200 pounds at the time of the shooting. He was overweight, bordering on obese. not what I would call 'very much in shape and thin'.

Check it out for yourself: US Department of Health and Human Services



posted on Apr, 13 2012 @ 08:52 AM
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Originally posted by Deranged74
reply to post by Blackmarketeer
 


true true I find it funny they are defending the guy who is alive and breathing who can hire real lawyers to defend himself. But the guy cold and dead in the ground does not get the same benefit from Zim supporters.



edit on 13-4-2012 by Deranged74 because: (no reason given)


On the flip side of that statement though, people are defending the person who is dead, and calling the person who killed him a cold blooded, racist murderer.

The point is that we don't have any idea what really happened, and we have to wait until all the information has come out before we make a decision.



posted on Apr, 13 2012 @ 08:53 AM
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Originally posted by Deranged74
reply to post by khimbar
 


Well you condone shooting unarmed men because of a little tussle?

I wonder how many shootings their would be every weekend in the usa if every bar, club fight ended up with someone shooting the other person? Thats what you are promoting isnt it?

Either the shooting was justified or it wasnt. The only way to justify shooting Martin is to show Zimmerman was in a immediate life threatening situation. And nothing shows that.


Please show, with evidence, where I've condoned the shooting in any way? Please show where I've promoted shooting, again with evidence.

Thank you.



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