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George Zimmerman to be charged in Trayvon Martin shooting, official says

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posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 01:53 AM
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Originally posted by pizzanazi75
1. That's what I believe means.


Yet, you continue to speak in absolutes.


Originally posted by pizzanazi75
2. Detained and arrested are two different things, so what is your point? He was not arrested that night.


But you speak as if the police stood by and did nothing.


Originally posted by pizzanazi75
3. Probably, but you have no way of knowing right? I mean Trayvon was pronounced dead at 730p. Zimmerman arrived at station at 752, by reports its a 14/15 min ride to the station. That means EMT's had at most 8 mins to 'treat' him for his injuries. Do EMT's do xray's on the scene?


They may not have even needed eight-minutes. Emergency personnel would know how to access someone at the scene, tell if they need further treatment.

As an example, during a wedding recently, I received (a rather comical) sharp, heavy blow to my head. I was dizzy and unable to support myself for a few moments. My girlfriend is an ER nurse; she was able to quickly asses whether I needed to go to the hospital or not. She didn't need 8 minutes.


Originally posted by pizzanazi75
I would want my head xrayed after being slammed on the ground so many times wouldn't you?


What you want and the reality of the situation are two completely different things.


Originally posted by pizzanazi75
4. If he demanded medical attention, then yes he had a choice in the matter.


He may have already been treated. Or he may have been in shock and not fully comprehending what was happening. We do not know.


Originally posted by pizzanazi75
5. Eye witnesses saw the scuffle, no one saw the start. But several saw the 'scuffle' on the ground, none report it moving or any one's head being beat on the ground in the 911 calls, even 'John' calls it wrestling in the 911 call he changed it to 'beating' in his doorway interview.


I suppose you are now just ignoring the wound to the back of Zimmerman's head. That's fine. Since you know all the details, guess it never existed.


Originally posted by pizzanazi75
6. Zimmermans dad and brother have both said it, Zimmermans old lawyer said it. Guess you haven't watched or read any reports on this case. Anyone who has spoke on his behalf has said it.


Great, they said it. But so what? None of them were there.


Originally posted by pizzanazi75
7. No, I can say there are hole with the facts as they are now.


Those "holes" you keep talking about are you speculation. You cannot call your speculation facts.




posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 01:55 AM
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Originally posted by Libertygal
reply to post by pizzanazi75
 


It was stated by his first set of attorneys-to-be- that "withdrew" from the case that there was a lot more evidence that has not been revealed, as well as was stated from the prosecutor in the press announcement. She also had a few choice words about the evidence that has been released. I feel quite certain that just as members of the family were told what to and what not to discuss, they were told what to, and not to release. These things will come out in the trial, and no manner of want will rush that.

Zimmerman's family also stated he moved under Trayvon because he was being beaten on the concrete, so his head was on the grass. This manner of repositioning is what was alleged to have revealed the weapon that renewed the struggle that was now for his life, over the weapon. The part where it was "something aling the lines of, "you are going to die tonight"", from your own video. If, in fact, there was a struggle over the firearm at that point, it means that George had not brandished it, and Trayvon went for the weapon, made an utterance of intent to kill, thereby legitimizing Zimmermans' plea of fearing for his life and self defense. Justifiable Homicide. Again, these are the things that will play out in a court of law.

George also stated he was screaming for help, over and over, and no one came to help him. He told the police this as well, when they arrived at the scene, yet, people continue to insist that it was Trayvon screaming for help. His family stated he was very upset by this, that no one came to his aide. This would have been in those exact moments immediately before the struggle for the firearm, and the shot rang out, so during the time his head was being beaten onto the concrete, then into the struggle over the gun. As the shot rang out, he fell silent.

I felt very certain Zimmerman wanted a new attorney when he ditched the ambulance chasers (my opinion) over the weekend, and that much panned out to be true. Glad he found someone he felt he could trust. Very important with what is coming down the pike for him now, because the other two must have given him pause.


1. The first attorneys can state anything, but they sure didn't produce anything, But yes forensics and autopsy will come out. Photos of 'injuries' .... ill believe it when I see it.

2. I think you should look and see what position and where Trayvons body was found again. They would have had to have made a complete 180 turn for zimmerman to be getting his head off the concrete. None of the witness said anything about this 'scuffle' moving in that manner or seeing anyone hitting anyone. That is probably one of the reason the lead investigator knew he was lying that night. Just one of the many reasons.

3. George's father is a judge. He worded that 'your going to die tonight' as a defense for his son. He knows exactly what needs to be said, whether its the truth or not. I don't believe Trayvon told anyone 'they were gonna die tonight'.....that a line from a bad lifetime movie if I ever heard one. Its a defense attorney line that they use when there are no living witnesses to contest the lie.

4. OK, if Zimmerman was screaming for help why didn't he continue to scream after he shot Trayvon? I mean he still needed help right? Why when Selma asked him what was going on out there, why after the 3rd time did he say 'call the police'? Why, after you just shot someone in the chest would you not SCREAM 'CALL AN AMBULANCE!!!!' Why didn't he try to offer any first aid to Trayvon? Witness say they heard screaming for help, then a gunshot and the screaming stopped.....it makes sense the screaming stopped becuase the person screaming was dead. If I was screaming for help and then shot someone I'd keep screaming for help, or at the very least keep screaming from shock. Zimmerman didn't do that, instead of calling for an ambulance he said 'call the police' ..... he just wanted them to come get the criminal. He had no regard for Trayvons life....Trayvon however did have value for his life....that is why he screamed for his life! That makes logical sense.

5. Im glad you approve of his legal team now. I will agree, at least his new lawyer came out and said how very sorry he is for the Martin family at their great loss at the hands of his client. His old lawyers never did that, they only tried to smear Trayvon. So I will agree at least his new lawyer seems to have a little class his old lawyers seriously lacked.
edit on 12-4-2012 by pizzanazi75 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 01:56 AM
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Originally posted by Qemyst
Why has this been getting 1000x more media coverage than any other murders that happen? Is it somehow more important than other murders?


"White" man kills a black kid. That is enough. Add the element of him not being immediately arrested.


Originally posted by Qemyst
The case from 2007 where a couple were carjacked, tortured at LENGTH, girl was raped, both were mutilated, and burned to death by 5 men in Knoxville Tennessee. Why didn't it get as much coverage as this Trayvon case?


For one, because the murders in that case were soon caught and arrested.

Also, the media could not spin it (or refused to) as a racist crime.



posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 01:58 AM
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reply to post by WingedBull
 


Oh... So essentially it's just another sideshow attraction in the big media circus to rile up the masses.

Good job, media.



posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 02:07 AM
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Originally posted by pizzanazi75
2. I think you should look and see what position and where Trayvons body was found again. They would have had to have made a complete 180 turn for zimmerman to be getting his head off the concrete. None of the witness said anything about this 'scuffle' moving in that manner or seeing anyone hitting anyone. That is probably one of the reason the lead investigator knew he was lying that night. Just one of the many reasons.


So, because they describe in it generic terms as a "scuffle" that means no one was hit? You are grasping for straws.


Originally posted by pizzanazi75
3. George's father is a judge. He worded that 'your going to die tonight' as a defense for his son. He knows exactly what needs to be said, whether its the truth or not. I don't believe Trayvon told anyone 'they were gonna die tonight'.....that a line from a bad lifetime movie if I ever heard one. Its a defense attorney line that they use when there are no living witnesses to contest the lie.


Again, you are speculating and trying to tell us your speculation are facts. You state that Zimmerman is lying, but you have absolutely no evidence to support that.


Originally posted by pizzanazi75
4. OK, if Zimmerman was screaming for help why didn't he continue to scream after he shot Trayvon? I mean he still needed help right?


Perhaps he was in shock.


Originally posted by pizzanazi75
Why when Selma asked him what was going on out there, why after the 3rd time did he say 'call the police'? Why, after you just shot someone in the chest would you not SCREAM 'CALL AN AMBULANCE!!!!'


Because, again, perhaps he was in shock. I do not know. And neither do you.

Yet, you still continue to speculate and call them facts.


Originally posted by pizzanazi75..it makes sense the screaming stopped becuase the person screaming was dead.


This is how we know that you are a liar. Not only are you speculating and calling them facts, you are now trying to rewrite them. You claim to have listened to all of the 911 tapes but if you had listened, you would know that on the one tape that has audio of a person screaming and a gun-shot that immediately after the gunshot there is a scream.


Originally posted by pizzanazi75
If I was screaming for help and then shot someone I'd keep screaming for help, or at the very least keep screaming from shock.


Good for you, person who has never been in that situation.

I've never shot anyone, so I have absolutely no idea how I would react. Neither do you.


Originally posted by pizzanazi75
Zimmerman didn't do that, instead of calling for an ambulance he said 'call the police' ....


Again, grasping for straws.


edit on 12-4-2012 by WingedBull because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 02:07 AM
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Originally posted by WingedBull
All we know is that the two met,


The two didn't 'meet', Zimmerman was persuing Trayvon as stated on the audio tape:
bizsecurity.about.com...

At the beginning Zimmerman claimed Trayvon was walking 'towards him', and then he claimed that Trayvon 'ran away'. Zimmerman


Dispatcher

Are you following him?

Zimmerman

Yeah.

Dispatcher

Ok, we don't need you to do that.

Zimmerman

Ok.


Trayvon didn't 'meet up' with Zimmerman, Trayvon was trying to get away, Trayvon had not committed a crime that night.



posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 02:08 AM
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"The EMT's will have a report in there. They treated him, they cleaned up the blood, his nose really is broken."

"There's all kinds of evidence they may have forensically, that we don't have access to. We're not entitled to it, you're not entitled to it."

"Actually had an attorney for the Martin family... get on the air and say, "They just need to arrest him and let him prove his innocence in a court of law. Really?! I don't think so."

Really?!

CNN video of Corey at press conference tonight. Please heed her words.

news.blogs.cnn.com...
pdf from Prosecutor Corey at her press announcement.
i2.cdn.turner.com...

She makes fairly much the same statements as Zimmermans' new attorney, never calling George a murderer, but stating he is responsible for Martins death. At this point, this really is all we know, it is up to the courts now. We can discuss till we are blue in the face what we think, or even feel, but it is really irrelevant without all the facts.

One thing truly stands, however, that he is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law, NOT the other way around as some wanted it to be.

In the end, we are left with two final truths.

1. Zimmerman is deeply upset and broken over this according to testimony of not only friends and relatives, but of his attorneys. His life will never be the same, regardless of the outcome. If aquitted, he will always be hunted down, just like Casey Anthony. If convicted, he will most likely die rather like Dahmer.

2. Trayvon will never grow up, never graduate, never go to college, never fall in love, never get married, never have a child of his own, never have his first car, first real job, first raise, first a lot of things. There is a lot of things in life he won't ever have the chance to do.

There should be no "sides" in this, because regardless of the outcome, both of these people and their families are living what some can only call a tragedy. I know that everyone here can find a place in their heart to have empathy for both "sides", because in the end, we are all human.



posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 02:10 AM
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Originally posted by Southern Guardian
At the beginning Zimmerman claimed Trayvon was walking 'towards him', and then he claimed that Trayvon 'ran away'.


Those are not two mutually exclusive ideas. He could have approached Zimmerman then ran away. How do you know this didn't happen?

In fact, the 911 tape ends two minutes after Zimmerman said Martin ran away. That is plenty of time to lose a pursuer who is walking. Zimmerman may have (and it seems likely from the tape) continued looking for Martin. Martin may have circled back on Zimmerman. Zimmerman may have cornered him. You don't know, I don't know. You are speculating.

Martin died less than a 1/10th of a mile from his home. If he did run, he could have made it home in those two minutes between the time Zimmerman says he is running and the end of the 911 tape. This would indicate he had no interest in losing his pursuer.

But then again, it could also indicate he didn't run.


Originally posted by Southern Guardian
Trayvon didn't 'meet up' with Zimmerman, Trayvon was trying to get away, Trayvon had not committed a crime that night.


And you know this how? You were there? You know for a fact he didn't confront Zimmerman for following him?

Again, another person speculating and claiming their speculation is facts.
edit on 12-4-2012 by WingedBull because: (no reason given)

edit on 12-4-2012 by WingedBull because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 02:17 AM
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Originally posted by WingedBull
And you know this how?


I know this by the audio tapes that were linked to you and that are all around google. To find a transcript it will take you but a minute. Zimmerman stated he was persuing Trayvon on audio, this is evidence leading to the incident. Later Zimmerman claimed that Trayvon attacked him after he was following Trayvon for some time, this is a claim from Zimmerman after the incident.


Again, another person speculating and claiming their speculation is facts.


No, you just refuse to listen and you continuiosly accuse others of making assumptions. Who said that Trayvon approached Zimmerman as well? Aside from Zimmerman, nobody else has stated this. Witnesses claimed to see a fight but neither of them have accounted for the events prior. All we have is an audio tape where Zimmerman admits to persuing Trayvon and that he was Trayvon looked out of place. Zimmerman was the one in persuit here.



posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 02:20 AM
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Originally posted by pizzanazi75
I would want my head xrayed after being slammed on the ground so many times wouldn't you?


What you want and the reality of the situation are two completely different things.


Originally posted by pizzanazi75
4. If he demanded medical attention, then yes he had a choice in the matter.


He may have already been treated. Or he may have been in shock and not fully comprehending what was happening. We do not know.


Originally posted by pizzanazi75
5. Eye witnesses saw the scuffle, no one saw the start. But several saw the 'scuffle' on the ground, none report it moving or any one's head being beat on the ground in the 911 calls, even 'John' calls it wrestling in the 911 call he changed it to 'beating' in his doorway interview.


I suppose you are now just ignoring the wound to the back of Zimmerman's head. That's fine. Since you know all the details, guess it never existed.


Originally posted by pizzanazi75
6. Zimmermans dad and brother have both said it, Zimmermans old lawyer said it. Guess you haven't watched or read any reports on this case. Anyone who has spoke on his behalf has said it.


Great, they said it. But so what? None of them were there.


Originally posted by pizzanazi75
7. No, I can say there are hole with the facts as they are now.


Those "holes" you keep talking about are you speculation. You cannot call your speculation facts.

1. And I guess you continue to not understand them.

2. I never said the police stood by and did nothing. Where did I say that?

3. Do EMT's do xray's. He claimed his head was beaten on the concrete so severly he thought he would be in diapers. This is what his brother told Piers Morgan, I think I said AC360 earlier, my aplogies. Regardless, EMT's do not treat those type of injuries, they transport to a hospital. His first lawyer tried to use the 'shaken baby' saying his brain was being rattled in his skull, you don't think he would want a few xrays. your argument that EMT's treated those type of injuries at the scene is laughable. Not to mention the police report says he was given 'first aid' by the SFD in the back of a squad car. his injuries weren't even bad enough for anyone to break out a box of band aids. If you GF is an ER nurse than she can explain to you why EMT's would have rushed zimmerman to a hospital if his injuries were true. Im glad you Girlfriend was able to assess you so quickly, however you didn't just claim to have been beaten so badly you had to kill an unarmed teenager. Surly you can see the difference between you wedding boo boo and Zimmermans skull splitting injuries and the need for proper medical attention beyond the back seat of squad car.

4. Well when he doesn't have any xrays to back up his silly claims he will wish he went to the ER from the scene and not been seen on CCV 35 mins later.

5. We've been through the 'already treated'.

6. Are you saying you can't get a scratch on the back of your head from a scuffle on the ground? And im not ignoring anything. If he had a 'wound' on the back of his head he would at the very least have a band aid. And I don't see any wound on his head, I see at most a scratch, and Im not sure its not just a shadow created in that one spot he is standing in in the police bay. And his family and lawyers describe the 'wound' in the back of his head as a 'gash'.....no bandages...no stitches......treated in the back of a squad car.......

7. Your right none of them were there. However, according to legal experts their testimony can be used. They went on television and made claims that they were telling the first hand account of what Zimmerman told them. What his family has come out so far and said can very well have an impact on the case. A judge can allow different types of hearsay and let the jury decide. We will see.

8. No the hole are not my speculation. You can keep calling it that all you want it won't make it any more true. Certain things Zimmerman has said, or his family or his lawyers have said don't add up to the facts. Those are holes in the story, that is not me speculating. His lawyer and Zimmerman said he was looking for a street sign when he was 'attacked'....but he was in a back yard..since when do we put street signs, or house numbers in back yards. Watch the press conference his old lawyers did yesterday and see just how testy the older lawyer gets one of the journalist confronts him on the 'house number/street sign - back yard issue'.....that is a hole, it is not my speculation. But you can say im speculating all you want. I know Im not. A hole is a hole is a hole.
edit on 12-4-2012 by pizzanazi75 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 02:31 AM
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Originally posted by pizzanazi75
Regardless, EMT's do not treat those type of injuries, they transport to a hospital. His first lawyer tried to use the 'shaken baby' saying his brain was being rattled in his skull, you don't think he would want a few xrays. your argument that EMT's treated those type of injuries at the scene is laughable.


This is a very good point right here. As I stated before, if they had taken pictures and if the injuries were so bad, they would have circulated it through the media I assure you.

The theory that they have held back the EMT report or pictures until his defense in court just doesn't stick because there was never a confirmation that he was going to be charged until recently. This coupled with the footage from the police station, his mannerisms on that video, indicates to me that he didn't suffer anything significant, putting aside whether he suffered anything at all from that incident.



posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 02:33 AM
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Originally posted by Southern Guardian
I know this by the audio tapes that were linked to you and that are all around google. To find a transcript it will take you but a minute. Zimmerman stated he was persuing Trayvon on audio, this is evidence leading to the incident.


There is a two minute time-difference between the time Zimmerman says Martin ran and the time the tape ends. Also, according to the transcript you site, Zimmerman loses track of Martin.



911 dispatcher:

OK, what’s your apartment number?

Zimmerman:

It’s a home. It’s 1950 – oh, crap, I don’t want to give it out – I don’t know where this kid is


You don't know what happened. Zimmerman could have chased him. Martin could have circled back around on him or they could have run into each other.

Also, according to the transcripts, Zimmerman was calling from near the clubhouse. Again, not a 1/10th mile from Martin's home. If Martin had run, he could have easily made it home. If he had run.


Originally posted by Southern Guardian
No, you just refuse to listen and you continuiosly accuse others of making assumptions.


Because others are making assumptions and calling them facts.


Originally posted by Southern Guardian
Who said that Trayvon approached Zimmerman as well?


No one. No one is claiming he did. The only people who are making statements of fact about who approached who in what lead to the fatal confrontation are people like you.



posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 02:34 AM
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Can we please focus on what's important to our evolution? Why are we focusing on this crap?



posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 02:34 AM
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reply to post by pizzanazi75
 


I could be completely wrong though, there could be solid evidence that he did suffer very severe injuries, but I really just can't see it myself personally. We'll have to wait until the hearing.



posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 02:35 AM
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Originally posted by Southern Guardian
I know this by the audio tapes that were linked to you and that are all around google. To find a transcript it will take you but a minute. Zimmerman stated he was persuing Trayvon on audio, this is evidence leading to the incident. Later Zimmerman claimed that Trayvon attacked him after he was following Trayvon for some time, this is a claim from Zimmerman after the incident.


Really? Based on where he stated in the tape Martin was located and was running to, and where the body was located when the police arrived, it is evident that Martin came BACK.

Be honest about the 911 call, if you are going to cite it. Listening to it makes the story a lot different, doesn't it?

After he says, "Ok", he stops following Martin, as is evident in the further conversation. You can tell he is no longer running, and was looking for his location and street address and even says he does not want to call out his personal address as he does not "know where this kid is at". It is total fallacy that he continued to "pursue" "chase" or "follow" Martin in any way.

He discontinued his following Martin when the operator stated, "We don't need you to do that", he states, "Ok", and in fact stated he wanted the police to meet him by the mailboxes, very near where he was parked.

If Martin was truly afraid of Zimmerman, why didn't he just go home? He was so close, in fact, he must have passed her house to go back to Zimmerman. Instead of going home though, he circled back to Zimmerman, and the confrontation took place on the sidewalk as Zimmerman was headed back to where his truck was parked after he obtained the street location but didn't want to call it out. The time he was talking, you can tell he had paused even walking, as there was no effort in his voice, no motion detectable on the phone, no wind as there was when he admitted to following Martin.

Very good map with outline of how the incident may have unfolded.

www.wagist.com...




www.propublica.org...

Here is the link to the police report also, where George states to the officer he was calling for help and no one came to help him. Kind of supports the claim it was his voice on the 911 calls.



posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 02:37 AM
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Originally posted by WingedBull

Originally posted by pizzanazi75
2. I think you should look and see what position and where Trayvons body was found again. They would have had to have made a complete 180 turn for zimmerman to be getting his head off the concrete. None of the witness said anything about this 'scuffle' moving in that manner or seeing anyone hitting anyone. That is probably one of the reason the lead investigator knew he was lying that night. Just one of the many reasons.


So, because they describe in it generic terms as a "scuffle" that means no one was hit? You are grasping for straws.


Originally posted by pizzanazi75
3. George's father is a judge. He worded that 'your going to die tonight' as a defense for his son. He knows exactly what needs to be said, whether its the truth or not. I don't believe Trayvon told anyone 'they were gonna die tonight'.....that a line from a bad lifetime movie if I ever heard one. Its a defense attorney line that they use when there are no living witnesses to contest the lie.


Again, you are speculating and trying to tell us your speculation are facts. You state that Zimmerman is lying, but you have absolutely no evidence to support that.


Originally posted by pizzanazi75
4. OK, if Zimmerman was screaming for help why didn't he continue to scream after he shot Trayvon? I mean he still needed help right?


Perhaps he was in shock.


Originally posted by pizzanazi75
Why when Selma asked him what was going on out there, why after the 3rd time did he say 'call the police'? Why, after you just shot someone in the chest would you not SCREAM 'CALL AN AMBULANCE!!!!'


Because, again, perhaps he was in shock. I do not know. And neither do you.

Yet, you still continue to speculate and call them facts.


Originally posted by pizzanazi75..it makes sense the screaming stopped becuase the person screaming was dead.


This is how we know that you are a liar. Not only are you speculating and calling them facts, you are now trying to rewrite them. You claim to have listened to all of the 911 tapes but if you had listened, you would know that on the one tape that has audio of a person screaming and a gun-shot that immediately after the gunshot there is a scream.


Originally posted by pizzanazi75
If I was screaming for help and then shot someone I'd keep screaming for help, or at the very least keep screaming from shock.


Good for you, person who has never been in that situation.

I've never shot anyone, so I have absolutely no idea how I would react. Neither do you.


Originally posted by pizzanazi75
Zimmerman didn't do that, instead of calling for an ambulance he said 'call the police' ....


Again, grasping for straws.


edit on 12-4-2012 by WingedBull because: (no reason given)


1. I never said no was hit. I said no witnesses describe on the 911 calls seeing anyone being hit. Good try putting words in my mouth, that is a grasp at straws.

2. Im speculating his father is a liar. Ding Ding. You are correct. But I never tried to pass them off as facts.

3. Perhaps he is lying.

4. Asking a question is not stating it as a fact. Shock or no shock, he had just supposedly been beaten, he just shot someone and he was coherent enough to say 'call the police'.....I guess his own injuries weren't even bad enough for him to want an ambulance for himself....let alone the boy with a bullet in his chest. Shock won't cut it, a person in shock would still know they needed an ambulance...and again, not to mention he knew the cops were on the way...he had called them remember. So his first concern having been beaten so bad should have been medical attention for him and his victim.....no the police. Still not calling them facts, asking questions because his story makes no sense.

5. Call me a liar all you want. You must be the only person that has heard that mystery scream. Ive listened to all the 911 calls and witnesses like Selma and Mary Cutcher and the 13 year old boy, and the 30 year old women..all have stated after the gun shot the screaming stopped. If anyone is a liar it is you.

6. I know how I would act. I wouldn't ask for police....no reasonable person would. Shock or no shock. People in shock still recognize the need for medical attention.

7. No im not grasping at straws. Witness Selma has reported she asked him 3 times 'is everything ok out there' and he responded 'call the police' .... what straw am I grasping at? The one that proves zimmerman is a murder?
edit on 12-4-2012 by pizzanazi75 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 02:46 AM
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Originally posted by pizzanazi75
3. Do EMT's do xray's. He claimed his head was beaten on the concrete so severly he thought he would be in diapers. This is what his brother told Piers Morgan


Good for that second-hand source after the fact on a cable-news show.

Besides, you are confusing what Zimmerman thought was happening with what really happened.


Originally posted by pizzanazi75your argument that EMT's treated those type of injuries at the scene is laughable.


Not laughable at all. Again, you are speculating (or in this case, outright making up) and calling it facts. That is what EMTs are trained to do. They treat injuries and asses if further treatment is necessary. They can check for concussions, can tell if the skull has been fractured or if his wounds needed stitches.


Originally posted by pizzanazi75
Not to mention the police report says he was given 'first aid' by the SFD in the back of a squad car. his injuries weren't even bad enough for anyone to break out a box of band aids.



Originally posted by pizzanazi75
If you GF is an ER nurse than she can explain to you why EMT's would have rushed zimmerman to a hospital if his injuries were true.


Probably because, though he was injured, the EMTs (or police, who have EMT training) determined he did not need further treatment.

Beside, it is not speculation that Zimmerman was injured. We have video evidence of it. You have moved from calling speculation facts to outright ignoring and lying about the evidence. Which is really funny. You are say people who refuse to accept your speculation as "facts" are ignoring the evidence, when you have been caught red-handed ignoring it yourself.


Originally posted by pizzanazi75
Im glad you Girlfriend was able to assess you so quickly, however you didn't just claim to have been beaten so badly you had to kill an unarmed teenager. Surly you can see the difference between you wedding boo boo and Zimmermans skull splitting injuries and the need for proper medical attention beyond the back seat of squad car.


Who ever said it was a skull-splitting injury? All you have is Zimmerman's brother on a cable-talk show saying Zimmerman thought he was sustaining serious injury.


Originally posted by pizzanazi75
6. Are you saying you can't get a scratch on the back of your head from a scuffle on the ground?


No, you are saying that.


Originally posted by pizzanazi75
And im not ignoring anything.


You are ignoring video evidence of the wound. Funny, the one hard piece of definitive evidence we have in this case, you ignore in favor of speculation.


Originally posted by pizzanazi75
If he had a 'wound' on the back of his head he would at the very least have a band aid. And I don't see any wound on his head, I see at most a scratch,


You are just lying now.


Originally posted by pizzanazi75
8. No the hole are not my speculation.


That is what is so great about speculation. You can make up whatever you want.



Originally posted by pizzanazi75Certain things Zimmerman has said, or his family or his lawyers have said don't add up to my speculation


There, fixed it for you.



posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 02:51 AM
link   

Originally posted by WingedBull
There is a two minute time-difference between the time Zimmerman says Martin ran and the time the tape ends. Also, according to the transcript you site, Zimmerman loses track of Martin.

You don't know what happened. Zimmerman could have chased him. Martin could have circled back around on him or they could have run into each other.


You see this is the problem that you just don't seem to want to understand. We already know that Zimmerman was persuing Martin as stated to the dispatcher on audio by Zimmerman himself. There is no evidence as of yet that points to Trayvon pursuing or meeting up with Zimmerman himself. Zimmerman may make the claim that Trayvon approached him after this incident, but this is his words and his words alone.
bizsecurity.about.com...

Do you understand?

1. Zimmerman confirmed he was persuing Trayvon on audio to the dispatcher,

2. you theorize that Trayvon may have possibly persued Zimmerman and confronted him as well.

The latter isn't confirmed through any evidence, it's just a scenario you see as likely.


Because others are making assumptions and calling them facts.


It isn't an assumption.

Fact, Zimmerman clearly stated he was persuing Trayvon Martin.
No evidence as of yet, Trayvon approached Zimmerman and confronted him as well.

The second part is yet to be proven.


Originally posted by Southern Guardian
No one. No one is claiming he did.


So they both met each other according to you, yet you're not claiming that Trayvon approached Zimmerman at all? How does this work? If Zimmerman approaches Trayvon, does this mean that both Trayvon and Zimmerman met up with each other, or did Zimmerman merely approach Trayvon himself? Please lay it out for me again because you're not making any sense.



posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 02:53 AM
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Originally posted by Libertygal
After he says, "Ok", he stops following Martin, as is evident in the further conversation. You can tell he is no longer running, and was looking for his location and street address and even says he does not want to call out his personal address as he does not "know where this kid is at". It is total fallacy that he continued to "pursue" "chase" or "follow" Martin in any way.


Not a total fallacy. Yes, the 911 tapes do indicate Zimmerman lost Martin. However, it is not a stretch from the tapes to assume he did continue looking for Martin (when he tells the police to call him for his location). And they ended up in an alleyway. If Zimmerman was not looking for Martin why was he there?


Originally posted by Libertygal
He discontinued his following Martin when the operator stated, "We don't need you to do that", he states, "Ok", and in fact stated he wanted the police to meet him by the mailboxes, very near where he was parked.


But then he states he wants the police to call him so he can tell them his location...


Originally posted by Libertygal
If Martin was truly afraid of Zimmerman, why didn't he just go home? He was so close, in fact, he must have passed her house to go back to Zimmerman.


Unfamiliar neighborhood, at night. Or he turned back and confronted Zimmerman. Or Zimmerman caught up to him. Could be a dozen different reasons.


Originally posted by Libertygal
Instead of going home though, he circled back to Zimmerman, and the confrontation took place on the sidewalk as Zimmerman was headed back to where his truck was parked after he obtained the street location but didn't want to call it out.


That is what Zimmerman claims, but you have no way of knowing that, or stating it as an absolute.



posted on Apr, 12 2012 @ 02:54 AM
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reply to post by pizzanazi75
 




1. The first attorneys can state anything, but they sure didn't produce anything, But yes forensics and autopsy will come out. Photos of 'injuries' .... ill believe it when I see it.


They weren't required to "produce" anything.

Only time will tell, but as someone else stated, the police do it routinely when they take someone into custody, for their own defense, to prevent the detainee from proclaiming "The police did this to meeee!" It will come out in time, and since his father *was* a judge, I am certain he had the brains to do such, himself. It really is a no-brainer. Just because they weren't leaked for ATS' viewing pleasure doesn't fit "pics or it didn't happen", sorry.



2. I think you should look and see what position and where Trayvons body was found again. They would have had to have made a complete 180 turn for zimmerman to be getting his head off the concrete. None of the witness said anything about this 'scuffle' moving in that manner or seeing anyone hitting anyone. That is probably one of the reason the lead investigator knew he was lying that night. Just one of the many reasons.


I think you should also read the police report where two officers, and most likely EMT's attempted to do CPR on Trayvon. Repositioning of the body for CPR is recommended in many instances. The location of the body.... when?

We don't know how he fell, if the story Zimmerman is telling is true and Martin was on top of him. To the left? The right? Did Zimmerman push him one way or the other? Did he move him in an attempt to get out from under him? See, you just don't know, and carrying on with things like that as a conviction of Zimmerman just fail terribly. The body was handled by several people, and we don't know when the body position was *exacted*. Was it before Zimmerman moved? After? Did they ask how he moved? What direction? There are a lot of questions you and I are not privy to the information of having the answers to.

Most likely? You are making some grand leaps to conclusions with that statement.



3. George's father is a judge. He worded that 'your going to die tonight' as a defense for his son. He knows exactly what needs to be said, whether its the truth or not. I don't believe Trayvon told anyone 'they were gonna die tonight'.....that a line from a bad lifetime movie if I ever heard one. Its a defense attorney line that they use when there are no living witnesses to contest the lie.


Prove it. You can't. That is a huge showy fabrication all your own and meaningless to the discussion. That is all.



4. OK, if Zimmerman was screaming for help why didn't he continue to scream after he shot Trayvon? I mean he still needed help right? Why when Selma asked him what was going on out there, why after the 3rd time did he say 'call the police'? Why, after you just shot someone in the chest would you not SCREAM 'CALL AN AMBULANCE!!!!' Why didn't he try to offer any first aid to Trayvon? Witness say they heard screaming for help, then a gunshot and the screaming stopped.....it makes sense the screaming stopped becuase the person screaming was dead. If I was screaming for help and then shot someone I'd keep screaming for help, or at the very least keep screaming from shock. Zimmerman didn't do that, instead of calling for an ambulance he said 'call the police' ..... he just wanted them to come get the criminal. He had no regard for Trayvons life....Trayvon however did have value for his life....that is why he screamed for his life! That makes logical sense.


If Zimmermans' story is true, he had just been cold-cocked by someone with an Arizona iced-tea in their hand, had his head knocked into the concrete, and while apparently dazed and confused ended up in a struggle over his unwittingly exposed weapon that ended in a struggle in a fight for his life. To him, it was over.

You make a lot of suppositions about someone that just got their butt handed to them and what their state of mind should or should not be. Walk a mile, then come back and talk.



5. Im glad you approve of his legal team now. I will agree, at least his new lawyer came out and said how very sorry he is for the Martin family at their great loss at the hands of his client. His old lawyers never did that, they only tried to smear Trayvon. So I will agree at least his new lawyer seems to have a little class his old lawyers seriously lacked.


I approve? Really? I said I am glad he found someone he could trust, because his dumping of the other clowns over the weekend apparently left them butt hurt over the whole thing. They wanted some face time and had to literally steal the last 15 minutes like they did the first 15 minutes. Wow you sure make a lot of assumptions bout people, don't you? Just wow.

*sigh
edit on 12-4-2012 by Libertygal because: (no reason given)



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