Are all doctors foreign born, or is it just me?

Its simple, Most of the other countries (Europe, China, India - i picked these because most of them are from here) have very high education standards.

Europe is not a country.

And the same thing is happening in Europe as well - I haven't seen a 'locally born' male doctor for decades. People have even been campaigning here to get doctors that speak the language of this country in such a way that it can be understood. Even the dentists are foreign and at the minimum, have a recognizable accent.

ATS seems sometimes a bit too America-centric to me. It's like the posters are always saying "this is happening to America" or "This country has the problem" - without realizing, it's happening at least ALL OVER THE WEST, and in many ways, it's all also happening in the east. The difference is that a lot of the east is third world, so they cannot be manipulated with the same efficiency as the first world (and the second, I presume).

When you want to write "America" or "this country" (about something that's clearly a world wide or the whole west-problem, not a country-specific one), pause for awhile. Think whether it applies to the whole west or maybe even the whole world, before you write it.

Otherwise it just comes off as ignorant, arrogant and your credibility suffers. And credibility is pretty important in this kind of areas, where there's so much junk already.

As a sidenote; I have been noticing an alarming amount of mistakes in the ATS forum topic headlines. I mean, if you can't even write the headline in correct english, without typos, what credibility do you have for writing a whole post and getting people to actually read it? Someone wrote two mistakes in the same topic - unbelievable, but it's true. The words were : "Telsa" and "Citys", when the correct words (judging by context) should have been "Tesla" and "Cities".

If you can't even write english - which is for many here your OWN LANGUAGE, what credibility do you really have? How can anyone trust someone who doesn't even have the basic intelligence to know how to type simple, everyday words correctly - especially when it comes to a complex topic that requires a 100+ IQ?

Then again, I guess the whole thing is balanced by the reader audience being of the same IQ level - they don't require correctly-written english (which is the least and the most basic thing any post writer can do, it's very easy), because they can't write it correctly themselves.

The very existence of something like 'spell checker' is shocking to me. Why would ANY normal, healthy adult need that? But the worse is the mental laziness to DEPEND on them, and to use them as excuse for not being able to write simple words correctly. It's astonishing to me.. it's astonishing, because I do not consider myself to be even above average in intelligence or any mental capabilities, and yet I have to watch people being more stupid than a lowly being like myself..

If I was a genius, then it would be easy to accept - it would be a given. Of course people would be stupider than me, it wouldn't be a shock. But that so many people are stupider than an already relatively stupid individual, THAT is shocking.

People try hard and have interesting ideas, but at the same time, they simply fail to write english correctly. They do not have the capability to do so. How can this be? What happened? I am sure that 100 years ago, even Americans could write english perfectly well. Someone talked about the letters the young (like 17 years old) soldiers sent back home from the war front. They were exquisitely written, deeply thoughtful and philosophical, even. I am pretty sure the letters the modern soldiers send back home are not.

Of all the things wrong in this world, of all the madness, insanity, stupidity and horrors - it really shocks me the most that people can't even do the most basic thing - to write their own language. It is really that shocking - and every time I see it happen, I still get shocked. I am not sure if it's even possible to get used to it.

Why do people born outside natively english-speaking countries possess the ability to write the english words correctly, while people who are actually born in a natively english-speaking country do not? How can this be? What caused this? Why don't people even care?

The attitude is usually something like: "Who cares about grammar, that's just nitpicking!"

The cause of the attitude and the lack of such ability is a great concern that I think everyone should care about. Because it is a symptom of something. It is a reflection of something scary. It is a manifestation of something horrible.

Here is just a few examples of what I like to call 'American Typos', that I have witnessed with my own eyes.

The 'typo' is first, and the correct version follows.

- board - bored
- wierd - weird
- weather - whether
- there - their
- their - they're
- their - there
- should of - should have
- hear - here

reply to post by Shoujikina


Nice post. It's pretty long and it looks like you thought a lot about what you wrote.

This thread is not meant to be America-centric. I am American, and usually go to doctors in the US. This thread does not inherently exclude non-US situations, sorry that you got that impression. Thank you for pointing out that the problem is in Europe as well. I didn't know that.

BTW: I went to doctors in the S. of France in 1994... They were all French at the time, I believe.

Your post goes way off tangent... If you want to rant about spelling errors and an America-centric ATS... To get a wider audience, these topics would be more appropriate in two separate (new) threads. One would be for each topic... The seemingly American-centric ATS site, and one for spelling errors..... If you have any questions about the appropriateness of my suggestion, I would direct you to Forums (top bar), then scroll to close to the bottom of the page and post/ask in one of the threads in the section: Information and General Topics. There, nice ATS members can help you with the creation of your threads.

bump bump

Why are they?

a reply to: MarkJS

Theyre usually from india or some other asian country, usually 3rd world nations, where the best you can hope to be in life is a doctor or lawyer.

originally posted by: abeverage


2. Americans are more lazy and being stupid than ever before.

yes med school is expensive and that plays a part but i think you nailed it

kids today and of the last 20 years even dont want to work(that means school too)
they are owed everything. they are entitled to things.
nobody wants to dig and and work for it anymore.

my opinion and yes, it is like that around here too
my doctor was born and raised in new delhi and i love her to death.
i love that woman

In western Kentucky we just don't see the influx of foreign docs right now. We had one back in the '90s when all our new docs seemed to come from Spanish speaking countries and didn't speak English well at all. Our local hospital got so many complaints from patients and staff that they don't really recruit non-native speakers any more.
However, we do have a few non-natives but all speak perfect English as far as I'm aware. In the past two weeks I've had occasion to have to deal with four different docs, one of which is foreign born. I think he's from India but I could be wrong. He is the most open-minded when it comes to natural/alternative healing of any of the mainstream medical folks. Where the native-born guys look at your list of meds and supplements and just toss it aside or grunt, this guy asks about the supplements and why they are being used. He also discusses diet in regard to overall health, not just weight loss (which isn't even remotely an issue in this case) while the western docs get glazed eyes if you try to discuss the role of diet vs. drugs in building immunity to disease.
Tomorrow I will be interacting with a young American-born doc who is following in his father's footsteps as an orthopedic surgeon. His father saved my husband's leg after he was in an accident---almost 30 years ago, when this young man was only 13 years-old. Because the injury to his leg required lots of surgeries and years of rehab we came to know and love that doc quite a bit and got to follow that young man's progress from high school and on through med school. When he came to practice with his Dad, I'll admit it was a bit strange to try to wrap our heads around the fact that he was indeed all grown up and quite well trained. Now his Dad has retired and we are very glad to still have a doc that knows the 30 years of history of this leg. I can't even begin to imagine what it would be like to have to bring a new guy up to speed on all the procedures, surgeries and experimentation that got us to this point.
Two friends of ours have children or grandchildren attending medical school or training for a specialty. For us older folks, I think it is sometimes a bit more difficult to deal with the younger docs, no matter what their background. The realization, "this kid is the same age as my grandson" just takes some getting used to I guess.

I have to say --- it doesn't bother me what nationality my doctor is --- as long as he/she speaks English clear enough for me to understand.

Plenty in Los Angeles.

originally posted by: Shoujikina

When you want to write "America" or "this country" (about something that's clearly a world wide or the whole west-problem, not a country-specific one), pause for awhile. Think whether it applies to the whole west or maybe even the whole world, before you write it.

Otherwise it just comes off as ignorant, arrogant and your credibility suffers. And credibility is pretty important in this kind of areas, where there's so much junk already.

I disagree. If a person does not know if an issue is specific to their own country (where they observe it) I find it misleading and ignorant to project it as a "global" problem! I think we should be honest about what we know, and what we don't.
I find it occurs much more often that americans write about something local, as if it is global, when in fact, it is not.
Let each one speak of what they know. We will inform each other.

On the topic-

I live in France, I work in a hospital and my husband works in several hospitals, and there is definately a flood of foreign doctors here. Especially in general practice and urgent care. (I don't think one of the doctors in our ER is french).
I know for a fact that they are hired instead of french citizens because they will work for less money and less job security.

That is here- though there may be a similar phenomenon elsewhere, it might not necessarily be for the same reasons.

originally posted by: MarkJS
Here in NY State.... it seems that >90% of the doctors were born in a different country. Is this the same where you are, or is it just me? The particular country does not matter, other than it's not the US as their original one.

New York and London are the most diverse places on the planet. In my personal experience most all MDs are of European and Asian descent. I never have been to New York or London.

a reply to: MarkJS

its just you

both my sisters are doctors and we all were born in NY going back generations



if you got in a car wreck would you care where the doctor was from if you were dying, i think not.

originally posted by: MarkJS
Here in NY State.... it seems that >90% of the doctors were born in a different country. Is this the same where you are, or is it just me? The particular country does not matter, other than it's not the US as their original one.

It doesn't seem right that one of the highest paying jobs we have in our country are all filled by foreign-born people... Whether they are US citizens now or not... is not the point. I'm just wondering why regular english-speaking Americans, without accents, are not working those jobs?? I think it's weird.

What happened? Is it the same for nurses as well?

This thread is not a racist rant. My apologies if you take it that way. This thread is a foreign person and a regular non-accented English speaking American person issue.

I smell a conspiracy.

Education is cheaper in alot of countries. Its also damn good, just as good as anywhere.

They are prepared to leave everything they know and love and work in another country that shows commitment doesn't it.

They may also work for less.