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Are chemtrail believers acting immorally?

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posted on Apr, 10 2012 @ 09:58 PM
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Originally posted by IpsissimusMagus
reply to post by Uncinus
 





he continues to promote the myth that "normal" contrails quickly dissipate.



It is not a myth. Normal contrails do dissipate quickly. That's why they made the terms "Persistent Contrail" and "Persistent Spreading Contrail".

It has been the common observation by a large group of intelligent and reliable people. Personal eyewitness accounts of people who have seen a change over the past 20 - 30 years of observing air traffic in a particular area. Contrails may have persisted in certain locations. But they rarely if ever persist in all the areas they are being seen today. I notice the change in my area.


and yet there isn't a single piece of verifiable evidence to show that this difference actually exists.

Whereas long persisting contrails have been noticed since at least 1940, and there are a number of scientific papers around about them.


The Battle for France and Saint-Exupery's Train of Frozen Stars

At the time Germany invaded France, French aviation pioneer and famed author Antoine Saint-Exupery was just short of his fortieth birthday, well past the age when men were considered fit for air combat duties. Given his age, his literary achievements, and health problems caused by earlier aircraft accidents, Saint-Exupery was not expected to volunteer for combat duty and could easily have honorably avoided it. However, he believed France was in grave danger and that all Frenchmen who could were obliged to come to her defense. (3)

True to his convictions, Saint-Exupery managed to secure an assignment flying reconnaissance planes, specifically, the Potez 63. Such an assignment was a serious challenge for a man of his age and physical condition due to the difficulties and discomforts associated with flying in the cold cockpits of high altitude aircraft. (4)

Saint-Exupery survived his combat missions against the Germans and escaped to the United States after France surrendered, settling into New York in January 1941. Here, he wrote about his wartime service and worked to build support for the war against Nazi Germany. After the United States captured North Africa, Saint-Exupery was allowed to sail aboard an American transport to Oran, Algeria. He then secured permission from French authorities to rejoin his old French reconnaissance unit, Group 2 of the 33d Reconnaissance Wing, and began flying combat missions after being retrained to fly the unit's aircraft. Shortly after he rejoined the 2/33, it was transferred to Colonel Elliott Roosevelt's 3d Photo Group, which flew the reconnaissance version of the P-38. By this time, Saint-Exupery was over forty-two years old, and regulations established thirty as the maximum age for pilots in Roosevelt's unit. Only through the intercession of a high-ranking French general with General Dwight Eisenhower's headquarters was this age requirement waived for Saint-Exupery. After being trained in the American P-38, he flew this aircraft on reconnaissance missions out of North Africa beginning in July 1943 and continuing until he was killed during a mission on July 31, 1944. (5)

In February 1942, while still living in New York, Saint-Exupery had published Flight to Arras, a memoir of his service against Nazi Germany in 1939 and 1940. Here, he described the challenges of his high altitude reconnaissance missions: the cold that could freeze the controls of his aircraft, finding and photographing enemy targets under fire, and the anxiety of knowing his plane was tailing a white streamer that pinpointed his position for enemy fighters and gunners. Regarding this last challenge, Saint-Exupery's wrote:

The German on the ground knows us by the pearly white scarf which every plane flying at high altitude trails behind like a bridal veil. The disturbance created by our meteoric flight crystallizes the watery vapor in the atmosphere. We unwind behind us a cirrus of icicles. If the atmospheric conditions are favorable to the formation of clouds, our wake will thicken bit by bit and become an evening cloud over the countryside.

The fighters are guided towards us by their radio, by the bursts on the ground, and by the ostentatious luxury of our white scarf ...

The fact is, I have absolutely no idea whether or not we are being pursued, and whether from the ground they can or cannot see us trailed by the collection of gossamer threads we sport.

Gossamer threads set me daydreaming again. An image comes into my mind which for the moment seems to me enchanting. "


from The wakes of war

Or perhaps you think the 8th USAAF chemtrailed Nazi Germany to death in 1944??





So why don't you get off your little charade and go and actually find some evidence to support your assertion?

Making excuses isn't evidence.
edit on 10-4-2012 by Aloysius the Gaul because: (no reason given)

edit on 10-4-2012 by Aloysius the Gaul because: (no reason given)




posted on Apr, 10 2012 @ 10:01 PM
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reply to post by IpsissimusMagus
 





Contrails may have persisted in certain locations. But they rarely if ever persist in all the areas they are being seen today. I notice the change in my area.


Are you sure about that...


If you are attentive to contrail formation and duration, you will notice that they can rapidly dissipate or spread horizontally into an extensive thin cirrus layer. How long a contrail remains intact, depends on the humidity structure and winds of the upper troposphere. If the atmosphere is near saturation, the contrail may exist for sometime. On the other hand, if the atmosphere is dry then as the contrail mixes with the environment it dissipates. Contrails are a concern in climate studies as increased jet aircraft traffic may result in an increase in cloud cover. It has been estimated that in certain heavy air-traffic corridors, cloud cover has increased by as much as 20%. An increase in cloud amount changes the region's radiation balance.


cimss.ssec.wisc.edu...


Contrails can be found over most of the planet. Now that jet plane traffic, both civilian and military, can be at anyplace over the globe at anytime, contrails are becoming more and more common. This picture was taken by the NOAA-12 satellite as it passed over portions of Europe in 1995. It is very obvious from this color enhanced satellite image that the atmosphere was very conducive to the development of contrails on this date (5 April 1995) and that these contrails were long-lived enough to accumulate with many criss-cross patterns over the same heavily travelled portion of air space. Contrails have been recorded throughout the history of jet plane travel. Many reports exist from World War II of situations where the accumulations of contrails was so extensive that pilots were unable to keep visual contact with neighbor or enemy planes during combat. Contrails have been recorded from the Sahara Desert to the South Pole indicating that contrails are not constrained to only populated regions of the Earth.



If contrails persist for a long enough period of time, say on the order of an hour or more, they can spread out across the sky due to the prevailing winds at the level at which they formed. The two figures below show how contrails generated on this particular day spread out fairly quickly due to the stronger jet stream of air aloft. Persistence of contrails is neither an indication that they contain some kind of chemical, nor that it is some kind of spray. As a matter of fact, sailors have known for some time to look specifically at the patterns and persistence of jet contrails for weather forecasting. On days where the contrails disappear quickly or don't even form, they can expect continuing good weather, while on days where they persist, a change in the weather pattern may be expected.


www.wrh.noaa.gov...



posted on Apr, 10 2012 @ 10:03 PM
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Originally posted by IpsissimusMagus---> Normal contrails do dissipate quickly


They do?

I guess this guy didn't know that as he was trucking along 55 minutes ahead of us at flightlevel 400.




posted on Apr, 10 2012 @ 10:12 PM
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reply to post by IpsissimusMagus
 





It is not a myth. Normal contrails do dissipate quickly.




I guess these pilots didn't get the contrails dissipate quickly memo. Somebody needs to make sure to get that out to them pronto....
edit on 10-4-2012 by tsurfer2000h because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 10 2012 @ 10:15 PM
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Originally posted by Ivar_Karlsen

Originally posted by IpsissimusMagus---> Normal contrails do dissipate quickly


They do?

I guess this guy didn't know that as he was trucking along 55 minutes ahead of us at flightlevel 400.


So how big of a shadow did that leave on the ground,
and shade how many people from sunlight.
And can you proof the links of less vitamin d lead to breast cancer is false,
and who are you to brag about
how many people went without sunshine in your man made cloud.
Because you were following, so you must of made one to.

Do you have anymore confessions/pictures of aiding in possibly breast cancer in women?

.



posted on Apr, 10 2012 @ 10:18 PM
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reply to post by Gmoneycricket
 





So how big of a shadow did that leave on the ground, and shade how many people from sunlight.


You may have to ask God or Mother Nature that question since this pic is a contrail taken above the clouds. Or are you just seeing what you want to see.



posted on Apr, 10 2012 @ 10:21 PM
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reply to post by Gmoneycricket
 





Do you have anymore confessions/pictures of aiding in possibly breast cancer in women?


Again blind statements with no links to back it up. BTW still waiting on those links I inquired about earlier and how about those cancer statistics that were caused by contrails?

Or have you not been able to find these things?

By all means take your time I know you have a lot of info to go through..

edit on 10-4-2012 by tsurfer2000h because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 10 2012 @ 10:21 PM
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The group is willing post pictures of their crimes,
all we have to do is save the links and their text of brags.
As they fly over our heads and block sunshine.
In the future we will be able to enter the argument of global dimming,
and just need to document the ones that are confessing now.



posted on Apr, 10 2012 @ 10:27 PM
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reply to post by Gmoneycricket
 





The group is willing post pictures of their crimes, all we have to do is save the links and their text of brags. As they fly over our heads and block sunshine.


Don't forget to add Mother Nature and God to that list as they are the ones who created clouds that do that same thing everyday.


But good luck trying to get them to come to answer for their crimes.


edit on 10-4-2012 by tsurfer2000h because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 10 2012 @ 10:27 PM
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Originally posted by tsurfer2000h
reply to post by Gmoneycricket
 





Do you have anymore confessions/pictures of aiding in possibly breast cancer in women?


Again blind statements with no links to back it up. BTW still waiting on those links I inquired about earlier and how about those cancer statistics that were caused by contrails?

Or have you not been able to find these things?

By all means take your time I know you have a lot of info to go through..

edit on 10-4-2012 by tsurfer2000h because: (no reason given)


You can call it blind,
I will just record your confessions of your crimes.
Show me more pictures of your crimes.
You can mock me,
call me names,
what ever you want,
while you show the world proof of your crimes.



posted on Apr, 10 2012 @ 10:31 PM
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reply to post by Gmoneycricket
 





You can call it blind, I will just record your confessions of your crimes. Show me more pictures of your crimes.


Well I hate to burst your little bubble, but the state of Ga. has already beat you to the punch. Better luck next time.


Sorry...
edit on 10-4-2012 by tsurfer2000h because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 10 2012 @ 10:33 PM
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Come on show us some more pictures,
bragging about how you have the power to create clouds,
block sunshine to those idiots on the ground.
You know you want to.
This thread was started to show us the power of of men in the sky,
a challenge.



posted on Apr, 10 2012 @ 10:37 PM
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reply to post by Gmoneycricket
 





You can mock me, call me names, what ever you want, while you show the world proof of your crimes.


Well when have I mocked you, or called you names ?

Also a little problem with your train of thought, because I did not invent the engine nor did I build the planes that produce contrails, nor am I flying any of those planes that produce those contrails.

Lastly if you fly in any plane you are at fault as much as I would be. See how your logic is flawed?



posted on Apr, 10 2012 @ 10:37 PM
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reply to post by Gmoneycricket
 


I'm pretty sure that calling people criminal when they have not done anything illegal is immoral too...so thanks for adding evidence to support the suggestion.



posted on Apr, 10 2012 @ 10:39 PM
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Originally posted by tsurfer2000h
reply to post by Gmoneycricket
 





You can call it blind, I will just record your confessions of your crimes. Show me more pictures of your crimes.


Well I hate to burst your little bubble, but the state of Ga. has already beat you to the punch. Better luck next time.


Sorry...
edit on 10-4-2012 by tsurfer2000h because: (no reason given)


Apologize to the ones you give cancer not me,
The ones that don't have clear sky's.



posted on Apr, 10 2012 @ 10:41 PM
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reply to post by Gmoneycricket
 


Would love to listen to more of your logical ramblings, but I have to get to sleep so I can come up with more ways to fly around the world and block the sun from the unsuspecting people of Earth.


Now I am mocking you. I guess your right about being mocked.


Don't forget those links and those statistics that I asked about earlier, at least now you have more time to find those for us.
edit on 10-4-2012 by tsurfer2000h because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 10 2012 @ 10:42 PM
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Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul
reply to post by Gmoneycricket
 


I'm pretty sure that calling people criminal when they have not done anything illegal is immoral too...so thanks for adding evidence to support the suggestion.

So you are going on record,
as none has ever had a cancer related to your industry.
Pretty bold statement.



posted on Apr, 10 2012 @ 10:46 PM
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reply to post by Gmoneycricket
 





So you are going on record, as none has ever had a cancer related to your industry. Pretty bold statement.


You still haven't provided us with any proof of cancer being caused by contrails, so that is a bold statement to say it has been caused by his industry.
edit on 10-4-2012 by tsurfer2000h because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 10 2012 @ 10:52 PM
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Originally posted by tsurfer2000h
reply to post by Gmoneycricket
 





So you are going on record, as none has ever had a cancer related to your industry. Pretty bold statement.


You still haven't provided us with any proof of cancer being caused by contrails, so that is a bold statement to say it has been caused by his industry.
edit on 10-4-2012 by tsurfer2000h because: (no reason given)


Do you need the picture of the exhaust that you guys furnished,
that shows these in a contrail again.
I see cancer at the bottom.
The list is what you have shown as a picture of what you call harmless water vapor,
a man made cloud.






wiki.answers.com...
CxHy is the general chemical formula of a hydrocarbon: This is an organic compound consisting entirely of hydrogen and carbon.
Alkanes, alkenes, cycloalkanes, alkyne-based compounds and aromatic hydrocarbons (arenes) are different types of hydrocarbons
www.epa.gov... (CO)
Carbon monoxide is an odorless, colorless and toxic gas. Because it is impossible to see, taste or smell the toxic fumes, CO can kill you before you are aware it is in your home. At lower levels of exposure, CO causes mild effects that are often mistaken for the flu. These symptoms include headaches, dizziness, disorientation, nausea and fatigue. The effects of CO exposure can vary greatly from person to person depending on age, overall health and the concentration and length of exposure.
www.epa.gov...
Sulfur dioxide (SO2) is one of a group of highly reactive gasses known as “oxides of sulfur.” The largest sources of SO2 emissions are from fossil fuel combustion at power plants (73%) and other industrial facilities (20%). Smaller sources of SO2 emissions include industrial processes such as extracting metal from ore, and the burning of high sulfur containing fuels by locomotives, large ships, and non-road equipment. SO2 is linked with a number of adverse effects on the respiratory system.
www.epa.gov...
Nitrogen dioxide (NO2) is one of a group of highly reactive gasses known as "oxides of nitrogen," or "nitrogen oxides (NOx)." Other nitrogen oxides include nitrous acid and nitric acid. While EPA’s National Ambient Air Quality Standard covers this entire group of NOx, NO2 is the component of greatest interest and the indicator for the larger group of nitrogen oxides. NO2 forms quickly from emissions from cars, trucks and buses, power plants, and off-road equipment. In addition to contributing to the formation of ground-level ozone, and fine particle pollution, NO2 is linked with a number of adverse effects on the respiratory system.
en.wikipedia.org...
Water is a chemical substance with the chemical formula H2O. A water molecule contains one oxygen and two hydrogen atoms connected by covalent bonds. Water is a liquid at ambient conditions, but it often co-exists on Earth with its solid state, ice, and gaseous state (water vapor or steam). Water also exists in a liquid crystal state near hydrophilic surfaces.[1][2] Under nomenclature used to name chemical compounds, Dihydrogen monoxide is the scientific name for water, though it is almost never used.[

en.wikipedia.org...
Soot ( /ˈsʊt/) is a general term that refers to impure carbon particles resulting from the incomplete combustion of a hydrocarbon. It is more properly restricted to the product of the gas-phase combustion process but is commonly extended to include the residual pyrolyzed fuel particles such as coal, cenospheres, charred wood, petroleum coke, and so on, that may become airborne during pyrolysis and that are more properly identified as cokes or chars.
The gas-phase soots contain polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAHs).[1] The PAHs in soot are known mutagens [2] and are classified as a "known human carcinogen" by the International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC).[3]



posted on Apr, 10 2012 @ 10:53 PM
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Originally posted by tsurfer2000h
reply to post by Gmoneycricket
 





So you are going on record, as none has ever had a cancer related to your industry. Pretty bold statement.


You still haven't provided us with any proof of cancer being caused by contrails, so that is a bold statement to say it has been caused by his industry.
edit on 10-4-2012 by tsurfer2000h because: (no reason given)

Now we can move on since he appears unable to keep up with the idea of Cancer Causing Contrails.
When they provided the info.



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