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Zimmerman's attorneys: 'We've lost contact with Zimmerman'

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posted on Apr, 11 2012 @ 04:15 PM
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Originally posted by captaintyinknots

Originally posted by Xcathdra


And is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law, not a court of public opinion. He is in fact a suspect in the death of Martin.



Except that he has admitted to killing Tray. He is not a suspect in the killing-he is a suspect in the murder. Big difference.



Not really no.

He is a suspect in the death of Martin. He is innocent of that charge until he is charged, tried and convicted. The PA must make her case that the death of Martin was in fact related to and caused by Zimmerman. Until a judge or jury finds Zimmerman guilty in the death of Martin, he is suspected in the death and nothing more and to argue otherwise is again a leap of logic.

Zimmerman is not officially, and by officially I mean in the legal arena, responsible for Martin's death until he either is convicted of charges or takes a plea deal. If its the latter we would get more info from his allocution.

Respectfully - people need to stop using personal opinions and moral views and applying them to this situation. People need to understand that "evidence" being reported may not be evidence at all.

We need to stop the 100 meter rush to judgment.




posted on Apr, 11 2012 @ 04:16 PM
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Originally posted by LAKOTAWINS
reply to post by CoherentlyConfused
 


I understand your anger or displeasure. However, Zimmerman had a right to protect his home and neighborhood. Tayvon had a right to walk on the street. Trayvon needed to act in a manner of respect. I may get grief from some folks. How do we know Zimmerman chased him down and shot him. My theory is it was a case of misunderstanding and lack of respect. Trayvon for all we know may have hit Zimmerman in the head with a bottle of "Arizona" ice tea while returning to his truck. Zimmerman stumbling around may have shown he had a gun. Struggled with Trayvon for it and accidently the weapon fired. Ever thought of that? Would you claim self defense then? Zimmerman has to live with this and if I was abeeting man he will never forgive himself.


As well he shouldnt.

The idea that he has a right to protect his own and neighborhood is all great and good, but what exactly is he protecting it from?

Shootings? Killings? Death?



posted on Apr, 11 2012 @ 04:17 PM
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Originally posted by captaintyinknots

Originally posted by Xcathdra


And is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law, not a court of public opinion. He is in fact a suspect in the death of Martin.



Except that he has admitted to killing Tray. He is not a suspect in the killing-he is a suspect in the murder. Big difference.



They have not even said they were charging him with murder, bigger difference.



posted on Apr, 11 2012 @ 04:18 PM
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Originally posted by Xcathdra

Originally posted by captaintyinknots

Originally posted by Xcathdra


And is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law, not a court of public opinion. He is in fact a suspect in the death of Martin.



Except that he has admitted to killing Tray. He is not a suspect in the killing-he is a suspect in the murder. Big difference.



Not really no.

He is a suspect in the death of Martin. He is innocent of that charge until he is charged, tried and convicted. The PA must make her case that the death of Martin was in fact related to and caused by Zimmerman. Until a judge or jury finds Zimmerman guilty in the death of Martin, he is suspected in the death and nothing more and to argue otherwise is again a leap of logic.

Zimmerman is not officially, and by officially I mean in the legal arena, responsible for Martin's death until he either is convicted of charges or takes a plea deal. If its the latter we would get more info from his allocution.

Respectfully - people need to stop using personal opinions and moral views and applying them to this situation. People need to understand that "evidence" being reported may not be evidence at all.

We need to stop the 100 meter rush to judgment.


Again, I disagree. He is not suspected in killing Trey. We KNOW that he did. The question is whether or not that shooting was legal, or a murder.

killing does not necessarily = a crime. We KNOW, without a shadow of a doubt, that he killed him. The part where 'suspect' comes into play is whether or not it was a crime.



posted on Apr, 11 2012 @ 04:18 PM
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Originally posted by LAKOTAWINS
reply to post by CoherentlyConfused
 


I understand your anger or displeasure. However, Zimmerman had a right to protect his home and neighborhood. Tayvon had a right to walk on the street. Trayvon needed to act in a manner of respect. I may get grief from some folks. How do we know Zimmerman chased him down and shot him. My theory is it was a case of misunderstanding and lack of respect. Trayvon for all we know may have hit Zimmerman in the head with a bottle of "Arizona" ice tea while returning to his truck. Zimmerman stumbling around may have shown he had a gun. Struggled with Trayvon for it and accidently the weapon fired. Ever thought of that? Would you claim self defense then? Zimmerman has to live with this and if I was abeeting man he will never forgive himself.


You like to assume a lot about Trayvon's demeanor. How do you know Trayvon wasn't being respectful to Zimmerman. You don't. You have assumed that because Zimmerman gunned him down. You couldn't possibly think maybe Zimmerman's disrespect could have caused it. Had to be the victim, right?



posted on Apr, 11 2012 @ 04:19 PM
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Originally posted by DavidWillts

Originally posted by captaintyinknots

Originally posted by Xcathdra


And is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law, not a court of public opinion. He is in fact a suspect in the death of Martin.



Except that he has admitted to killing Tray. He is not a suspect in the killing-he is a suspect in the murder. Big difference.



They have not even said they were charging him with murder, bigger difference.


Where did I say they did?

They are investigating whether or not it was a murder. Making Zimm the suspect of the alleged murder. Not rocket science.



posted on Apr, 11 2012 @ 04:21 PM
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reply to post by captaintyinknots
 


They investigate and event to determine if it is a murder or not. If they were investigating a murder they would have arrested Zimmerman a long time ago.



posted on Apr, 11 2012 @ 04:22 PM
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Originally posted by DavidWillts
reply to post by captaintyinknots
 


They investigate and event to determine if it is a murder or not. If they were investigating a murder they would have arrested Zimmerman a long time ago.




so what are the investigating then?
edit on 11-4-2012 by captaintyinknots because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 11 2012 @ 04:24 PM
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reply to post by captaintyinknots
 



once again proving Xcathdra's point. you are using your emotional judgement and not looking at the big picture. unless you are a member of the investigative team. if there is an investigation he is not a suspect until they determine there was an actual crime. since the law states in this case there wasn't, he is NOT a suspect no matter how bad you want him to be.


on a side note, reason and critical thinking skills is one of our truest freedoms and most of you continue to let the media think for you.



posted on Apr, 11 2012 @ 04:24 PM
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reply to post by captaintyinknots
 


I would suspect breakins was the reason he was gaurding and following this young man. In Atlanta we see some of these events in neighborhoods but are not reported. The police know if left unchecked the crimes esculate. Just the other day there was a robbery, rape and murder in a neighborhood that had numerous breakins before. However, law enforcement is stretched thin and it was left unchecked. Unsavory characters live among us. My point is that we need to teach our children how to "not" look or act like these folks. If they do then they are at risk of a tragic incident. I do not want one innocent life taken all because of mistakes like this.



posted on Apr, 11 2012 @ 04:25 PM
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Here is another twist,
Zimmerman's former attorneys: Who are they?



The name of Jose Baez, Anthony's lead defense counsel, is not mentioned. But Wednesday, told that Baez and another high-profile defense attorney, Mark Geragos, were among the attorneys who criticized the news conference the two held regarding Zimmerman -- and also that Baez suggested they had violated attorney-client privilege -- Uhrig denied any violation.

edition.cnn.com...
edition.cnn.com...


Even as late as Wednesday, while saying he no longer can represent Zimmerman, Uhrig hinted that there is more to the case than has been publicly disclosed. A special prosecutor is deciding whether Zimmerman should face charges in Martin's death.

"We believe there's information and evidence in the possession of the prosecutor, the investigators, the police department, the (Florida) Department of Law Enforcement that if publicly known, might change some of the course of public opinion," Uhrig told CNN. "We're not at liberty to disclose (it). We don't have possession of it. What little we know might disclose a confidence as to where we learned about it, and (I'm) simply not going to go there."



posted on Apr, 11 2012 @ 04:27 PM
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reply to post by pizzanazi75
 


I have never assumed. I merely suspect and can guess. Both of these poor souls will forever be connected for this tragic incident. Both I suspect did wrong. The evidence and witnesses suggest that. I merely guess at it.



posted on Apr, 11 2012 @ 04:29 PM
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Originally posted by Hardstepah
reply to post by captaintyinknots
 



once again proving Xcathdra's point. you are using your emotional judgement and not looking at the big picture. unless you are a member of the investigative team. if there is an investigation he is not a suspect until they determine there was an actual crime. since the law states in this case there wasn't, he is NOT a suspect no matter how bad you want him to be.


on a side note, reason and critical thinking skills is one of our truest freedoms and most of you continue to let the media think for you.


Please show me where I am being emotional. I have not stated that I think it is murder, I have not stated that I think Zimm is guilty, I have not stated anything of the sort.

As for your statements about the law stating there wasnt a crime, perhaps you missed this:
news.blogs.cnn.com...

Earlier, a senior law enforcement source familiar with the Martin death investigation told CNN said that George Zimmerman would be charged.


Please refrain from the commentary on what you think is influencing my line of thinking. To claim that you know that I want Zimm to be guilty (a flat out lie), and then to claim you know what influences my thinking is hypocritically in the most basic sense of the word.



posted on Apr, 11 2012 @ 04:29 PM
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Originally posted by Hardstepah
reply to post by AlonzoTyper
 


exactly. we are supposed to try this man because he is guilty as shown by the bounty, at this point how could zimmerman have a fair trial? he has bee found guilty by the msm and public already. the only people that want him to stand trial are the ones who think he is guilty



In Aug of 2008 Casey Anthony was arrested in the dissapearance of her daughter. By Oct of that year the grand jury had indicted her. Public opinion of her was written in stone and on the hearts and minds of all of America. She was GUILTY. She murdered her daughter. Come July 2011 and here she is walking free. The court of public opinion doesnt mean a thing.
He will get a fair trial if it comes to that.



posted on Apr, 11 2012 @ 04:34 PM
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Originally posted by LAKOTAWINS
reply to post by pizzanazi75
 


I have never assumed. I merely suspect and can guess. Both of these poor souls will forever be connected for this tragic incident. Both I suspect did wrong. The evidence and witnesses suggest that. I merely guess at it.


Ill admit, I have problems with statements like 'both I suspect did wrong'. Until I see one single piece of real evidence that says Trayvon did anything wrong I won't believe it. I heard the screams on the 911 tape he did what he was taught to do....scream for help. Im sick of people blaming him in any way shape or form. Their is absolutely no evidence to prove Trayvon did anything wrong.......

There is overwhelming evidence that Zimmerman did all types of things wrong that night.

Im getting really tired of this 'blame the victim'....its getting old and its disgusting.



posted on Apr, 11 2012 @ 04:37 PM
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reply to post by Xcathdra
 


Not charged with a crime? Thought you had heard... usnews.msnbc.msn.com...



posted on Apr, 11 2012 @ 04:38 PM
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reply to post by NoJoker13
 


Ive tried to point this out a few times in this thread-either it kills the argument or people missed the news-but people sure are ignoring it.



posted on Apr, 11 2012 @ 04:39 PM
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Originally posted by NoJoker13
reply to post by Xcathdra
 


Not charged with a crime? Thought you had heard... usnews.msnbc.msn.com...


Yes, but to be and has been are two different things, can he leave before the charges?

That is what I am asking.



posted on Apr, 11 2012 @ 04:41 PM
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Originally posted by captaintyinknots
Again, I disagree. He is not suspected in killing Trey. We KNOW that he did. The question is whether or not that shooting was legal, or a murder.


In the legal arena no we dont know what occurred and as I stated before until he is charged, tried and convicted or he is offered and accepts a plea deal, the legal arena views Martins death as a homicide with a person of interest / suspect. A judge / jury / plea is the legal remedy to determine accountability for the death. Until that occurs there is no official (in the eyes of the law) confirmation of who is responsible.

I get what you and others are trying to say.. I am stating the arguments people are trying to use in this thread are not based on the legal system but personal opinion and how they "think" things should be going.

It doesn't work that way.


Originally posted by captaintyinknots
killing does not necessarily = a crime. We KNOW, without a shadow of a doubt, that he killed him. The part where 'suspect' comes into play is whether or not it was a crime.

In general (since the details will cause mass confusion) a homicide is a homicide, regardless if it occurred from criminal activity, an officer involved shooting, a civilian defending themselves or the Department of Corrections carrying out an execution of a person on death row.

What happens then is a reason will be attached to the official cause of death -
IE - John Doe is in his house and is woken up at 3 am from a sound coming from his kitchen. He grabs his gun and heads downstairs and comes face to face with an intruder. He exercises deadly force, killing the intruder and waits for law enforcement to arrive.

The death of the intruder is listed as a homicide and rightfully so. The important part is the justification so in this example the homeowner in fact committed a homicide but when all the facts and circumstances are taken into account his actions under law were justified.

That result is a justifiable homicide. The homeowner met all the legal criteria to be charged with the murder (homicide) of the intruder. The homeowner met all of the legal criteria to be able to use the castle doctrine law as a defense to his actions.

In short - it means the homeowner committed a homicide and based on all of the info the PA is not going to pursue criminal charges.

As far as the comment about knowing for a fact Zimmerman killed him - Again no we do not - determination of cause of death is the responsibility of the coroner / medical examiner. Since the autopsy reports have not been released we do not know what the official cause of death is.

* - was the gunshot wound the sole cause of death.
* - was the gunshot wound a contributing factor if there were other medical issues present?

I'm not intentionally trying to be a pain in the ass.. I am trying to point out that the legal arena is not as black and white as people want to think it is.

The PA could have 10 semi loads of evidence that proves beyond a doubt Zimmerman was the second gunman on the grassy knoll. Zimmerman's lawyer can challenge the evidence based on many reasons and if the argument is persuasive enough they can actually have the evidence excluded from the court proceedings.

If they successfully challenge evidence and have it removed, it can actually result in charges being dropped. Charges are based on the evidence and if that evidence is not allowed, there is no longer anything supporting the charge.

We must wait and see if he is in fact being charged and if so what those charges are.



posted on Apr, 11 2012 @ 04:42 PM
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Originally posted by NoJoker13
reply to post by Xcathdra
 


Not charged with a crime? Thought you had heard... usnews.msnbc.msn.com...


Until the PA officially announces a prosecution and what the charges will be, its media speculation. We will have confirmation either way at 6pm eastern time when the press conference is held.

If he is charged it doesn't mean its going to stick. At the preliminary hearing, should it go that far, he can argue his reason for using force. If that argument is accepted by the judge then this is over with as Zimmerman will be immune from prosecution based on Florida law.

Also - MSNBC is reporting Zimmerman is already in custody for whatever that is worth.
edit on 11-4-2012 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)







 
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