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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by lonewolf19792000
OT= Works
NT= Grace
That's bad Soeteriology according to Systematic Theology brother. Works never saved anyone, it was always by grace. I understand what you're trying to say though.
Faith first then works will manifest as a sign of your faith.
Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by lonewolf19792000
The Old Covenant was broken before Moses came down from the mountain, God told Moses they had violated it already when he was up there communing with God. It lasted less than 30 days before the people broke it.
edit on 20-4-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)
Thats because those laws were impossible for a weak human to keep. Even a righteous man would stumble at some point. He was showing them that without his grace, they were ultimately screwed. More often than not your first thought of the day could be a sin when youre just waking up.
Sign to who, exactly?
Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by lonewolf19792000
The Old Covenant was broken before Moses came down from the mountain, God told Moses they had violated it already when he was up there communing with God. It lasted less than 30 days before the people broke it.
Thats because those laws were impossible for a weak human to keep. Even a righteous man would stumble at some point. He was showing them that without his grace, they were ultimately screwed. More often than not your first thought of the day could be a sin when youre just waking up.
Where did you read that?
"And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.... Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?" ~ Acts 15:7,10
"But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.
Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by lonewolf19792000
Where did you read that?
The bible directly addresses this issue.
Jesus, James, Paul in the NT. Good works is the purpose of saving faith, good works are the evidence of saving faith. And without good works as the evidence, most likely the saving faith is dead.
You seem to think that mans default nature is to keep sinning.
With the advent of the Gospel, all this has to be redefined from what it says in your quote of Ezekiel. It is no longer about keeping the Mosaic Law. We now have Faith which substitutes for the written Law, where we now have a spiritual law that is written, so to speak, on our hearts.
The bible teaches that sinning or refraining from it all within a mans control.
Yeah man I know, the Law is just man's schoolmaster, his neon sign pointing him to a bloody cross.
Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by NOTurTypical
I quoted the words of God Himself in the bible to frame my case.
Its not as simple as "its there in the bible, so its got to be true".
Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NOTurTypical
Jesus, James, Paul in the NT. Good works is the purpose of saving faith, good works are the evidence of saving faith. And without good works as the evidence, most likely the saving faith is dead.
I think before attempting to use this to bolster Lonewolf's statement of theory, you should define what you mean by "saving faith". As it stands, you are attempting to validate an unsupported theory with another unsupported theory, since you have no direct quotes or citation to substantiate a statement which without them is nothing but a naked assertion.
You know? I have a whole thread about that. Oh, it is this one. I had suspected that you are here to support the "Free Grace" theory of salvation. Since there is no verse that says a person is saved, as in the past tense, in this life, then you have adopter the explanation that when it says justified, it also means "saved" and a person is justified in this life.
Faith that justifies a person before God in a general sense, faith in Christ's atonement in a specific sense.
You can't forget the "entire council of God". Single verse Theology leads to cults. For example, I can quote you two verses right now that if you followed them every day you'd be an alcoholic.
Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by NOTurTypical
You can't forget the "entire council of God". Single verse Theology leads to cults. For example, I can quote you two verses right now that if you followed them every day you'd be an alcoholic.
The bible REPEATEDLY equates keeping the law with "righteousness".
Its a recurring theme in the bible.
I had suspected that you are here to support the "Free Grace" theory of salvation.
Since there is no verse that says a person is saved, as in the past tense, in this life, then you have adopter the explanation that when it says justified, it also means "saved" and a person is justified in this life.
8For it is by free grace (God's unmerited favor) that you are saved (delivered from judgment and made partakers of Christ's salvation) through [your] faith. And this [salvation] is not of yourselves [of your own doing, it came not through your own striving], but it is the gift of God;
9Not because of works [not the fulfillment of the Law's demands], lest any man should boast. [It is not the result of what anyone can possibly do, so no one can pride himself in it or take glory to himself.]
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9Not of works, lest any man should boast.