Pell says Adam and Eve didn't exist

This just goes to show that this guy is an abomination to the scientific community. Whether you agree with him or not is beyond the point. The point is that Adam and Eve could be proven to exist at some point, but it could never be proven that they didn't exist. Scientists are bound by a strict code, and this code strictly forbids claiming opinions as fact, which is exactly what this man is doing based on the criteria I described in the third sentence of this post. 1. Adam and Eve could, theoretically, be proven to exist. 2. Adam and Eve's existence cannot be disproven. 3. Saying that Adam and Eve never existed is not a fact. 4. What this man is saying is therefore an opinion.

reply to post by JiggyPotamus


I totally agree with you, mate.

reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux


You should look into Joseph Campbell if you haven't already done so. I think you hit the nail on the head

Originally posted by starheart
reply to post by smurfy

 

If we consider that God took a part of Adam to create Eve, and that its considered ''incest'', does that mean that when we'll come to make clones from one another (like the science seem to go), nobody will be able to marry each other?

My post is about Adam and Eve as portrayed as the first creation in the bible, (and if you believe it to be so)

For all we know, A&E were part of an experiment that went wrong, but as of some type of entities, and maybe not clones. A coming together of Mars and Venus if you like, or even the big bang. Before that, we know nothing. I don't know where the cloning of people or animals will go, but the implications are huge, and pretty frightening really.

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by letthereaderunderstand

 

If Adam represented all of mankind, the Bible wouldn't say that he lived 930 years and then died.

2nd.

On the 7th day (whatever that is) EVERYTHING was finished...

Genesis 2
1Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
2And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
3And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
4These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,

The story is a reductionist story. All the stories are contained with in the first, with ever increasing detail as to the "first" throughout the rest of said stories. Even evolution is explained in Genesis 1 as is evident with the progression of life upon the voided planet. The story is a meme.

Peace

Who gives a s**t what pell says, and whoever else doesnt believe it.... You go ahead and believe in aliens and illuminati..

Originally posted by jrod
Lilith was the first women mentioned in the bible, not Eve. Her story is left out of the Christian version but is still alive in Jewish teachings.

Yeah, and I married her. JEEZ, what a b_____!

Gosh you mean its all made up!



Didn't see that one coming!



/sigh

Originally posted by JiggyPotamus
This just goes to show that this guy is an abomination to the scientific community. Whether you agree with him or not is beyond the point. The point is that Adam and Eve could be proven to exist at some point, but it could never be proven that they didn't exist. Scientists are bound by a strict code, and this code strictly forbids claiming opinions as fact, which is exactly what this man is doing based on the criteria I described in the third sentence of this post. 1. Adam and Eve could, theoretically, be proven to exist. 2. Adam and Eve's existence cannot be disproven. 3. Saying that Adam and Eve never existed is not a fact. 4. What this man is saying is therefore an opinion.

Not being argumentative, but A&E can only have come into being at the point of creation as per the bible. The figurative A&E is of course another matter, we need to understand what A&E is referring to in the bible, and how the 'same' bible relates them to us.

Originally posted by starheart
reply to post by Jordan River

 

I see. Well, just got to wait a couples of years, when archeologists will dig there, and see if we find Adam and Eve body. It will solve alot of questions.

i believe adam and eve. (or whatever their real names were in some semtic language) epic of gilgmesh/ enuma elisha whatever... if buried, would be buried beneath the persian gulf

Originally posted by dontreally

As for Adam and Eve, after the first 'failure', or, rather, the establishing the reality of the conflict between ego (cain) and self nullification (Abel), Eve has another son (this time, rightly, she doesn't say she 'acquired' or "created" a son, but rather, that God has GIVEN her a son. The sphere of manifestation disclaims all credit for life, acknowledging herself as being contingent on the Universal) which she calls Sheth (meaning 'established') who was made in the image of Adam. Adam, again, is androgynous, meaning, he combines both aspects, both masculine and feminine within him; just as he was made in the image of his creator, Seth was made in the image of Adam. This mean's man must neither be too inclined to the egoistic or the self transcendent, but must be 'established' in both planes.

The following narrative continues the ontological evolution of mankind.

edit on 10-4-2012 by dontreally because: (no reason given)

I forgot to specifically address this comment in my last post.

I obviously don't believe that Cain and Abel represent an ontological story of the ego. As for Eve stating that Seth was given to her by God, I believe this was God's way of pointing out that this was the bloodline in which Jesus would be born as outlined in Luke 3:23-38. That's the only reason Seth's genealogy is broken down in the Bible and not Cain's. The Bible only goes as far as to discuss Cain's marriages and descendants from Genesis 4:17-24. It's very short.

reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux


Always enjoy your posts.
Yes Myth has many levels of interpretation.
Virgin Birth being another or Immaculate Conception.
In Egyptian Mythology this story is told and also contains astronomical information
Osiris (Orion or Sirius B) is described as both brother and lover to Isis (Sirius A) - Set or Seth who is infertile (Alderbaran perhaps) their other brother kills Osiris in a fit of jealousy after Sets consort and sister (Nepthys) tricks Osiris into a sexual liaison.
Set cuts Osiris body into 14 pieces and hides them all over the world. In Ancient Egypt the night sky was divided into 13 constellations on the ecliptic -
Isis is distraught and weeps bitterly - cutting off her long black hair and seting out to find Osiris's body parts.
Isis finds 13 but can not find the 14th part which is Osiris's penis.
Isis wants her child by her dead brother lover and so tricks the One creator God Atum into telling her all His secrets - With this knowledge Isis makes a penis from gold that extends to the heavens and attached to Osiris.
She conceives a son - our Sun or Horus.
In Egyptian philosophy it is said that when a soul runs the race of purity IE passes the 42 or so commandments (Not 10 but their forerunner) then that soul is reborn in Orion as a body of light to serve Atum the One Creator God.
Strangely or not - The nearest Stellar Nursery to us is in Orion IE Orion Nebula or Sword - where thousands of stars are in the process of being born.

www.sydneycatholic.org...


here is contact information about the place to email. I suggest email the cardinal to step down and stop being an embarrassment to the faith . Picking and choosing what portion (although so might be miss scewed) of the bible is like filling a glass full of water with a crack in it

"My life would be much easier if I didn't have to go into bat for . . . Christian principles," he said. Cardinal Pell then mused that he sometimes wondered if he should regret his life's work, before asserting: "No, no."

plus comments like this is unacceptable.

I'm not the most religious guy. In fact, religion repulses me. But, I do have faith. And all I can say about this charlatan is; 'false prophet'. Anybody who knows anything about Christianity will know what I'm getting at.

Originally posted by nimsu1987
I'm not the most religious guy. In fact, religion repulses me. But, I do have faith. And all I can say about this charlatan is; 'false prophet'. Anybody who knows anything about Christianity will know what I'm getting at.

Religion is bad, but yes you have my back with what you are saying. Religion isn't bad for the elderly, you have to consider and weigh that when judgeing the an entire organization.

Because people accept if an entire group, organization community is not behind the idea (doctrine) it is worthless. That is why a community (religion) will always win against one person individual spirituality. Religion fights in numbers, spirituality has no common ground (because the individual spiritual person does not always match the other spiritual person)
.

We must find commonality

Yes, that's true Jordan River. I certainly can't categorically say that all of religion is bad, because without religion, it would be pretty difficult to become connected with God. Well, in my case anyway. But I know what you mean Jordan.

Adam and Eve never existed.

How this is news to anyone is mind boggling and hilariously sad.

Welcome to reality, religious sheep.

Originally posted by SeventhSeal
Adam and Eve never existed.

How this is news to anyone is mind boggling and hilariously sad.

Welcome to reality, religious sheep.

Don't throw the baby out with the bath water.
Even if all the Bible was all Myth and not to be taken literally then it still contains real wisdom and I would not decry any one's religion at a fundamental level - I know Christians who I call real Christians - Love is the message of most all religions and I see nothing wrong in that

reply to post by SeventhSeal


Totally agree. But don't you think that the mere fact it has been said poses further questions about the foundations of catholic religion? I.e. after all this was "the beginning" in "their" eyes.......and now it's been publicly admitted that it's all a story. That’s got to hurt a little wouldn't you say?

You know what I mean?

reply to post by InfaRedMan


Hello, first post on ATS.
First of all, forgive me for my bad english but I'm italian
Second thing: I am writing using my mobile, therefore I won't write a lot of things, I just would like to reply to some of your statements by giving my opinion.

As you may know Italy is a country where Christianity is widely accepted and almost every child here is taught about the stories both from Bible and Gospel.
For what concerns Adam and Eve, you will never find anybody that states that they really existed.
Everyone knows that that tale is merely a way to justify the malicious tendencies common to all human beings. I wonder why mr. Pell's statement heats some of you so much...

The user I am quoting (edit. I don't know how to quote people, I am referring to InfaRedMan on first page) probably did not read the bible, otherwise he/she would know that there is no lineal correlation between Adam and Eve and the people whose vicissitudes are later described in the book.

This said, I have chosen not to be religious, but that does not mean I did not read the Bible since it is nevertheless a most interesting reading. Also, you cannot judge something you do not know.

That's all.

Peace