Pell says Adam and Eve didn't exist

reply to post by artistpoet


1 SAMUEL Chapter 3

And the child Samuel ministered unto the LORD before Eli. And the word of the LORD was precious in those days; there was no open vision.
2 And it came to pass at that time, when Eli was laid down in his place, and his eyes began to wax dim, that he could not see;
3 And ere the lamp of God went out in the temple of the LORD, where the ark of God was, and Samuel was laid down to sleep;
4 That the LORD called Samuel: and he answered, Here am I.
5 And he ran unto Eli, and said, Here am I; for thou calledst me. And he said, I called not; lie down again. And he went and lay down.
6 And the LORD called yet again, Samuel. And Samuel arose and went to Eli, and said, Here am I; for thou didst call me. And he answered, I called not, my son; lie down again.
7 Now Samuel did not yet know the LORD, neither was the word of the LORD yet revealed unto him.
8 And the LORD called Samuel again the third time. And he arose and went to Eli, and said, Here am I; for thou didst call me. And Eli perceived that the LORD had called the child.
9 Therefore Eli said unto Samuel, Go, lie down: and it shall be, if he call thee, that thou shalt say, Speak, LORD; for thy servant heareth. So Samuel went and lay down in his place.
10 And the LORD came, and stood, and called as at other times, Samuel, Samuel. Then Samuel answered, Speak; for thy servant heareth.
11 And the LORD said to Samuel, Behold, I will do a thing in Israel, at which both the ears of every one that heareth it shall tingle.
12 In that day I will perform against Eli all things which I have spoken concerning his house: when I begin, I will also make an end.
13 For I have told him that I will judge his house for ever for the iniquity which he knoweth; because his sons made themselves vile, and he restrained them not.
14 And therefore I have sworn unto the house of Eli, that the iniquity of Eli's house shall not be purged with sacrifice nor offering for ever.
15 And Samuel lay until the morning, and opened the doors of the house of the LORD. And Samuel feared to shew Eli the vision.
16 Then Eli called Samuel, and said, Samuel, my son. And he answered, Here am I.
17 And he said, What is the thing that the LORD hath said unto thee? I pray thee hide it not from me: God do so to thee, and more also, if thou hide any thing from me of all the things that he said unto thee.
18 And Samuel told him every whit, and hid nothing from him. And he said, It is the LORD: let him do what seemeth him good.
19 And Samuel grew, and the LORD was with him, and did let none of his words fall to the ground.
20 And all Israel from Dan even to Beersheba knew that Samuel was established to be a prophet of the LORD.
21 And the LORD appeared again in Shiloh: for the LORD revealed himself to Samuel in Shiloh by the word of the LORD.

Verse 21 sums up the true and only way to really KNOW God..........You need His WORDS......do you have God's words today???? Or do you think God was not able to keep His words preserved for you as He said He would?

Ps 12:6-7 Matt 5:18 Mark 13:31 Prov 30:5 Matt 4:4 Ps 119

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by CaptainNemo
Since I've started reading it, it's done nothing but enhance my life, made me happier, and hopefully made the people around me happier. We are all living human lives here, nobody has all the answers so these are my beliefs.

Yes, yes! When you opened the bible you were looking for good stuff to enhance your life, so it's only the good stuff that you found. The death and bood and hate and revenge and vengence and inconsistencies and contradictions passed right by your eyes without you seeing it. The human mind is powerful like that.

No, don't assume my reasons. Actually, I was more interested in books like Ezekiel, and the commandments to kill entire populations, but like with any book, I had to start from the beginning to understand the entire thing. Maybe I was attracted to the bloodshed?

When there were contradictions, I worked to understand why. I started learning Hebrew, and Greek and reading online resources with original texts. I rented books on Near East history, and Judaism. I took notes, LOT'S of notes, and I asked myself alot of questions. I didn't fester on any bloodshed or conflict, I simply looked at it from several aspects, understood and moved along. This is all still an ongoing endeavor, and my work barely scratches the surface.

Anybody who complains of inconsistencies is just lazy, and might have a short attention span. Due diligence my friend...

Originally posted by addygrace

I can't make anyone believe. Everyone has free will. Answering questions doubters raise, is one way of trying to break through the hardened heart.

Why should you have to? Why is god a secret instead of an in-your-face here-I-am type of god? Once again I say, if I am playing god's game whereby my soul goes to hell for all eternity for stealing a towel from a hotel, then that god better sit his butt down in front of me and tell me so. (Never stole a towel.)

Originally posted by CaptainNemo

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by CaptainNemo
Since I've started reading it, it's done nothing but enhance my life, made me happier, and hopefully made the people around me happier. We are all living human lives here, nobody has all the answers so these are my beliefs.

Yes, yes! When you opened the bible you were looking for good stuff to enhance your life, so it's only the good stuff that you found. The death and bood and hate and revenge and vengence and inconsistencies and contradictions passed right by your eyes without you seeing it. The human mind is powerful like that.

No, don't assume my reasons. Actually, I was more interested in books like Ezekiel, and the commandments to kill entire populations, but like with any book, I had to start from the beginning to understand the entire thing. Maybe I was attracted to the bloodshed?

When there were contradictions, I worked to understand why. I started learning Hebrew, and Greek and reading online resources with original texts. I rented books on Near East history, and Judaism. I took notes, LOT'S of notes, and I asked myself alot of questions. I didn't fester on any bloodshed or conflict, I simply looked at it from several aspects, understood and moved along. This is all still an ongoing endeavor, and my work barely scratches the surface.

Anybody who complains of inconsistencies is just lazy, and might have a short attention span. Due diligence my friend...

edit on 13-4-2012 by CaptainNemo because: (no reason given)

edit on 13-4-2012 by CaptainNemo because: (no reason given)

Once again, god gave us the ten commandments, one of them being DON'T EVER KILL. DON'T DO IT!
I COMMAND YOU, THAT'S WHY I CALL IT A COMMANDMENT! NO! NEVER! DON'T DON'T DON'T KILL!!!! But, (shhhhh), when you come to the time of the new testament, if you kill my son, all your sins will be forgiven.

I have cringed at seeing a 300 pound person walking up the wooden steps of a porch. Tell me, how can you possibly believe Noah's wooden ark could support two 8-ton elephants, a couple of 3000 pound giraffes, four tons of rhino, and all staggering around a storm-ridden boat that is way too long for its support structure????

It's total and indesputable 2,000 pounds of BULL!

reply to post by jiggerj


Thankfully you're personal distaste for obese people doesn't trump physics.

Must I do everything for you? Do the math bro:

459x75x44 feet
V =1.54 million m^3

You need the formulas too?

Originally posted by korathin

Originally posted by CaptainBeno

Pell says Adam and Eve didn't exist

au.news.yahoo.com

In comments that may shock some staunch Catholics, Cardinal George Pell has described the biblical story of Adam and Eve as a myth.

He appeared alongside renowned evolutionary biologist and atheist, Professor Richard Dawkins, on the ABC's Q&A program last night.

(visit the link for the full news article)

This is how atheism became acceptable in civilized society. Atheist psychopaths and sociopaths, infiltrated Religious and Political positions to ever so slightly steer society away from theism. Cardinal Pell ought to be excommunicated and ripped from his position.

WOW! Somebody's a little upset that the older kids are telling him Santa doesn't exist. Do you honestly believe that atheists would waste their life playing church to convince you morons of your ignorance? Religion is just a tool to control the masses such as yourself. Why are you on ATS? To try to convince those of us with an open mind to believe in your fairy tales? I suppose the earth is only 2-4k years old too and we played with dinosaurs, despite all evidence pointing to NO. It's funny how you categorize atheists as psychopaths and sociopaths when one could easily say the same about religious nuts such as yourself, radical muslims, and any other radical religious people giving their religion a bad name.

reply to post by CaptainBeno


Oh boy....oh...boy..oh boy What a delightful "Revelation" Cardinal Pell (pun most definitely intended)! I'm still amazed at the people that believe in this book.

No disrespect but come on...Adam & Eve, a snake and a forbidden fruit tree that gets depicted as an apple tree...really Since that was supposed to be the beginning of the human race as told in the bible...I was lost immediately.

Imagine having to attend a catholic school for 8 years...while the whole time thinking "this church & bible crap is such BS"

Originally posted by CaptainNemo
reply to post by jiggerj

 

Thankfully you're personal distaste for obese people doesn't trump physics.

Must I do everything for you? Do the math bro:

459x75x44 feet
V =1.54 million m^3

You need the formulas too?

When I said I cringed while watching a 300 pound person climbing stairs I meant I feared them falling through the stairs. How awful a suggestion of one who believes in an all-loving god.

No, I don't need the math. Over 450 ft. long (we're talking 1 and a 1/2 football fields) and made of gopher wood, with 1600 tons of animal, and can you say, MAYDAY MAYDAY WE'RE GOIN' DOWN!

reply to post by jiggerj

Over 450 ft. long (we're talking 1 and a 1/2 football fields)

A football field is 360 feet long.

reply to post by CJCSuperman

WOW! Somebody's a little upset that the older kids are telling him Santa doesn't exist.

Nothing new, been hearing this ad nauseum for thousands of years. And don't mock, many of us found God after secular indoctrination, a miracle indeed.

Originally posted by CaptainNemo
reply to post by jiggerj

 

Thankfully you're personal distaste for obese people doesn't trump physics.

Must I do everything for you? Do the math bro:

459x75x44 feet
V =1.54 million m^3

You need the formulas too?

He has to get addition right first, baby steps. He just said 450 feet is 1 1/2 football fields.

That's 540 feet.

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by CaptainNemo
I feel anger over cardinal Pell's remarks. He sat there with his arms folded and with a solemn face he stares into believers homes and tells them that what they know to be true is all a lie. Then the renowned atheists firmly rests his hand on Pell's shoulders and nods his hand. He is anti-Bible, in essence he is the Satan.

Apparently, Mr. Pell has very little respect for the institution for which he is employed and I feel that there should be disciplinary actions against him. His status in the church has dealt no blow to my faith or the Bible. He is not the authority on the Bible, nor the Catholic church, or any man on the face of the Earth. The kingdom of God is within you.

If the kingdom of god is within you then why do you need to believe in the Adam and Eve fairy tale? If the kingdom of god is within you then how can it ever be threatened by things like evolution and inconsistencies in the bible. Why do you fear saying, I believe in god so the bible could be 100% wrong and it won't change a thing?

"Kingdom of God" is a Hebraism for "rule of God".

Soooo, you all want to go to god's rule?

When archaeologists excavate ancient Israeli sites the never find jails.

I'm tired of the rule of man myself.

reply to post by KJV1611


Thats some of the poorest reasoning ive ever seen.

No wonder idiotic religious people were murdering people in the name of god. Hearing voices back then was the new pink.

Im sure if god told you to... you would murder your whole family and not think twice. You deserve all the wrath that is being stored up for you.

Originally posted by Wertdagf
reply to post by KJV1611

 

Thats some of the poorest reasoning ive ever seen.

No wonder idiotic religious people were murdering people in the name of god. Hearing voices back then was the new pink.

Im sure if god told you to... you would murder your whole family and not think twice. You deserve all the wrath that is being stored up for you.

Who is storing it up??

Can someone invite them to be members??

reply to post by korathin


Yes, I say he's an infiltrator. Marxism has infiltrated the Church already and he's just another example. Wolves in Sheep's clothing is the perfect description for this guy. .

Perhaps if he explained it more as Adam and Eve being the archetypes of male and female and the story of the serpent being more of an allegory would be better than just declaring the whole thing a myth thereby leaving the Bible out to dry and opening it up for general dismissal.


Edit: upon checking out the webpage, I am thinking that perhaps he was trying to reconcile the Bible with scientific theory. My first impression was that he was being an apologist. It's hard to know whether he is making excuses for the Bible or genuinely just feels that Adam and Eve are a "complicated" story. I think it needs to be treated with care.

reply to post by ThePublicEnemyNo1


Looks like you believe in WonderWoman though? She's the quintessential Amazonian from the mythological women of the Amazon who did not need men.

antimisandry.com...

reply to post by KJV1611

All I need to do is post a verse of scripture pertaining to the conversation at hand. Once complete it is the Holy Bible and God you have to argue with, not Christians.

See this is EXACTLY the problem with you radicals masquerading as "Christians", you think taking one verse, out of context of the chapter, and book it is in, validates some how any argument you have. The number of times I have coma across poseur "Christians" who string together half a dozen completely unassociated verses, and even verse snippets, to try and prove they are right, and (9 out of 10 times) to damn someone, is ridiculousness.

Radical fundamentalist "Christian" poseurs are just as dangerous to society and radical fundamentalist "Muslims".

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by RyanFromCan

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by Garfee

Originally posted by Deetermined

True, it's a spiritual book.

That is except for where it touches matters of History. In that regard archaeologists are confirming it's historical accounts with perfect precision.

I could write a book of fiction that incorporated actual historical events into it, but it would not make the book as a whole factual.

Using your logic, the movie "Forrest Gump" is a true story.

IMHO its not rational whatsoever to use a straw man argument then in the very next breath call it someone else's logic.

Just a thought there friend.

For this to be "straw man" you would have to believe the Bible is perfect, literal, factual, and written by God, which you clearly do, I don't.

The only differences I see between what I proposed, and the Bible, is that the bible is older, and has more obsessive followers. Maybe I should have used the "Book of Mormon" as an example, it is older and has obsessive followers as well.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by artistpoet

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by Xaphan
reply to post by RyanFromCan

 

Is there a 'Church of Gump' where we all show up sporting crew cuts and leg braces? That would actually be kind of fun. It would be like going to a Halloween party with Vietnam veterans.

AHHH! Forrest Gump isn't real! The good Gump book states that Forrest went up into space with an orangutan, and we ALL know that NASA has never got a rocket off the ground. It's all a conspiracy!

Forrest Gump is real - There is footage of him with the president

And he went to Vietnam and had a friend with a shrimp boat. Now we're expected to believe Vietnam didn't happen or shrimp don't exist??

Blasphemy!

No nothing is expected of you - not even a sense of humour
"Jesus wept" - But I am sure he laughed also

I thought it was a common "belief" that the Adam and Eve story was an allegorical one?

So there are people who think otherwise?

Hmmmm


Actually there are people who believe the earth is 6000 years old and that Moses and Noah really were 900 years old and so on...

So yes... doesn't surprise me.