Pell says Adam and Eve didn't exist

Originally posted by 1nOne
reply to post by Archangelelijah

 

On the right track:

Adam/Atom: negatively charged electrons orbiting positively charged protons.

Note to all: Incidentally, the "first Adam" means the first RACE of man, (think "mankind"), not some lonely guy from ages ago.

So who or what created atoms and electrons IE what is their cause from where does the force originally eminate.

Atum is a more ancient One Creator God than God of the bible - yet trace the roots and you will find that the concept of a One Creator God is the same as the One Creator God of the Bible and other religions.

Science fails to explain what the original spark of life is and only views it's effects
Philosophy is the true religion IE the discussion of ideas in which each partaker brings their own perspective to the table and listens to all other perspectives and is left with a knowing but also a sense of wonder for The Big Question has no conclusive answer but many answers yet recognizes a common source or Creator or whatever you wish to name the mystery.

Originally posted by MrXYZ

You do realize that just because the bible says so doesn't make it true, right?

Then why keep throwing up Jonah as a reason not to believe in the Bible if you're not going to believe anyway? I've seen you do it numerous times in different threads.

For those who question whether Jonah lived while in the belly of the whale, I answered your question Biblically. Jonah was not alive in the belly of the fish. Jonah died while in the belly of the fish and he was resurrected after the fish spit him out. Period. If you don't want to believe that anyone ever died and was brought back to life, that's your prerogative, but quit making it sound like the story of Jonah being alive in the fish is another reason NOT to believe in the Bible. It doesn't hold up.

You've asked this question over and over. It's been answered. Please quit asking it if you don't want a Biblical response.

Christ said "Any one that harms one of these little children, it would be better that a millstone would be hung around their neck,and be thrown into the sea."

And anyone who thinks an organization that supports, defends, and hides those that have hurt these little children have anything remotely to do with God, are SERIOUSLY deluded.

So I'll put his opinion right up there with NBC, Jesse, and Al tyvm.

Originally posted by jbmitch
reply to post by MrXYZ

 

Um utter nonsense...geneticist have traced the human genome back to an original "Eve" not sure about Adam.
Adam and Eve the only inhabitants of earth....Cain and Abel..Cain Slew Abel.Eve gave birth to Seth..Seth married and had childern,,,where did Seth's wife come from...Cain was sent out to wander the world for his murder of his brother. He was given the "Mark" so others would not kill him...well where did all these "other" inhabitants ,,like those who dwelt in the Land of Nod..come from...There is lot of room for speculation about what is true. I'am sure you can find a Catholic Cardinal that will up hold the story of Adam and Eve will great religious zeal. Welcome to religion...

According to the Bible, Adam lived 930 years. According to a Jewish historian named Josephus, having lived from 37 AD - 100 AD, Adam had 33 sons and 23 daughters. How he knows this, I'm not sure. It's printed in his book, "The Antiquities of the Jews".

The fact is, Adam was told to be fruitful and multiply, which I'm sure he did throughout his 930 years, which could explain where Cain got his wife and populated the land of Nod.

Originally posted by Deetermined

Originally posted by MrXYZ

You do realize that just because the bible says so doesn't make it true, right?

Then why keep throwing up Jonah as a reason not to believe in the Bible if you're not going to believe anyway? I've seen you do it numerous times in different threads.

For those who question whether Jonah lived while in the belly of the whale, I answered your question Biblically. Jonah was not alive in the belly of the fish. Jonah died while in the belly of the fish and he was resurrected after the fish spit him out. Period. If you don't want to believe that anyone ever died and was brought back to life, that's your prerogative, but quit making it sound like the story of Jonah being alive in the fish is another reason NOT to believe in the Bible. It doesn't hold up.

You've asked this question over and over. It's been answered. Please quit asking it.

I will believe stuff in the bible that's backed up by OBJECTIVE evidence.

Here's what's not backed up by objective evidence:

- People living inside whales or resurrecting from inside whales
- Genesis
- Global flood
- ...

In addition to that, there are over 400 cases where the bible is DEMONSTRABLY wrong not only scientifically, but also historically: LINK

What's your evidence that Adam lived over 900 years? Please don't tell me you believe it simply because it's in the bible

Originally posted by MrXYZ

I will believe stuff in the bible that's backed up by OBJECTIVE evidence.

Here's what's not backed up by objective evidence:

- People living inside whales or resurrecting from inside whales
- Genesis
- Global flood
- ...

In addition to that, there are over 400 cases where the bible is DEMONSTRABLY wrong not only scientifically, but also historically: LINK

What's your evidence that Adam lived over 900 years? Please don't tell me you believe it simply because it's in the bible

edit on 11-4-2012 by MrXYZ because: (no reason given)

I'm not sure why you would believe any of it if all of it needs to be proven scientifically to you.

Yes, the Bible requires belief through faith. Faith is a major topic discussed in the Bible.

Yes, I believe Adam lived 930 years because the Bible says so.

God will never allow man to scientifically prove everything. Man is imperfect and God knows that if he shared all knowledge with man that man would only corrupt it due to sin. Just like his perfect angels who exercised their free will until they corrupted mankind and became the "fallen angels". Too much knowledge and power combined with free will only leads to a power struggle between the Creator and those He created. It won't happen again. God will destroy those who misused their knowledge and power.

Edit to Add: Man was given a second chance, through Jesus, to be redeemed. The "fallen angels" will not be given that chance. They will be destroyed with no chance of living another angelic or eternal life.

Originally posted by Missing Blue Sky
reply to post by CaptainBeno

 

I am Catholic and this is how I learned it. I was taught in Catholic school the Genesis stories are Contextual. They are to read in context of the audience for whom they were written. They are stories which explain to the early faithful of creation.

And so goes for the Bible as a whole, there are too many inconsistencies and contradictions for it to be "perfect" and "literal", the Bible is a body of truth, as opposed to literal, a collection of allegories (truths) to govern your life and live by. Much of the bible is letters, from humans, to other faithful, they are shaded by the context and time they were written in, and that fact they were written by humans, sinners themselves, who were not perfect.

Like the food rules (few if any Christians actually follow them any more, including those who like to quote Leviticus and such to support their position on homosexuality). The food rules served a purpose, to protect the "uneducated" from harming themselves with unhealthy practices pertaining to food, modern "conveniences" have changed that context, they did not have refrigeration back the, and some foods, even using traditional storage and preservation methods did not keep well, like pork and shellfish. This is also so with the rest of the Bible.

reply to post by Deetermined


What about all the cases where the bible is DEMONSTRABLY wrong?? Are you simply ignoring them?

reply to post by MrXYZ


Throw me an example of where the Bible was proven wrong and I'll try to answer your question.

As for your link, it looked like most of the questions revolved around the Bible not giving enough detail to answer them.

Originally posted by MrXYZ

Originally posted by Deetermined

Originally posted by MrXYZ

You do realize that just because the bible says so doesn't make it true, right?

Then why keep throwing up Jonah as a reason not to believe in the Bible if you're not going to believe anyway? I've seen you do it numerous times in different threads.

For those who question whether Jonah lived while in the belly of the whale, I answered your question Biblically. Jonah was not alive in the belly of the fish. Jonah died while in the belly of the fish and he was resurrected after the fish spit him out. Period. If you don't want to believe that anyone ever died and was brought back to life, that's your prerogative, but quit making it sound like the story of Jonah being alive in the fish is another reason NOT to believe in the Bible. It doesn't hold up.

You've asked this question over and over. It's been answered. Please quit asking it.

I will believe stuff in the bible that's backed up by OBJECTIVE evidence.

Here's what's not backed up by objective evidence:

- People living inside whales or resurrecting from inside whales
- Genesis
- Global flood
- ...

In addition to that, there are over 400 cases where the bible is DEMONSTRABLY wrong not only scientifically, but also historically: LINK

What's your evidence that Adam lived over 900 years? Please don't tell me you believe it simply because it's in the bible

edit on 11-4-2012 by MrXYZ because: (no reason given)

I refuse to get into a peeing contest with an athiest however, having said that I had to take the time to peruse these "400" claims, so I immediately went and took a look at the last bit. (Just to see how much the arguments "wane" and I was right in my skepticism.

The fourth trumpet smites one third of the sun, moon, and stars. 8:12

"I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth." 9:1

The first one there, is clearly a sign of nuclear winter, and the second clearly explains itself if you continue to read it, rather than "edit" the verse. And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit. The word 'star" there is "shining one" which is obviously an angel. If you selectively edit things to make your point, you can make ANY point you wish.

Intellectually dishonest at LEAST, and shoddy exegesis at MOST. And no im not willing to debate anyone who posts websites such as this as "proof" tyvm. Not worth my time.

Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by Deetermined

 

What about all the cases where the bible is DEMONSTRABLY wrong?? Are you simply ignoring them?

Jonah was a fable. was a myth.

The flood did happen through (not entirely global) but regionly global (cause the one area was considered the entire earth). the idea is that the persian gulf at one time was just a river, (two rivers are now fossilzed) and this river hosted the story of Genesis. one of the mythos (Enum?) explains where paradise was located, at the end of four rivers. The closes rivers we have runs down to the persian gulf followed by two fossilized river beds, right underneath the enum elisa and gilgamesh civilizations as well Mesopotamia


ldolphin.org...

Originally posted by schadenfreude
Christ said "Any one that harms one of these little children, it would be better that a millstone would be hung around their neck,and be thrown into the sea."

And anyone who thinks an organization that supports, defends, and hides those that have hurt these little children have anything remotely to do with God, are SERIOUSLY deluded.

So I'll put his opinion right up there with NBC, Jesse, and Al tyvm.

Context please, what harm, by who, and what was the situation? Let me help you.

(KJV) Matthew Chapter 18

Matthew 18
1 At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?
2 And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them,

3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

4 Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

5 And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me.

6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

7 Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!

8 Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.

9 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.

10 Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven.

11 For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.

In context, the passage does not talk about the abuse of children but rather humbling yourself and coming to God with the innocence, open mind, and humbleness of a child, and that it is wrong to take the away from mankind, their innocence, humbleness and open mind, it is akin to cause someone to stumble on their journey in faith, and that it would be better not to live, than to live without innocence, humbleness and an open mind. It has nothing to do with the punishment to be handed to people who abuse children, when taken in context of the who chapter. this is the problem with cherry picking of biblical quotes, it leaves out the context in which the passage is given. You can take and string together single verses from the Bible, and make it say pretty much anything you want, just think Jerry Falwell, and Jimmie Baker, and other such "TV Evangelists" who beg for your money.

When you look at the whole chapter, it deals with several things, humbling yourself as to take on the characteristics of a child (Vs 1-5), Causing others to lose their way with God (Vs 6-9), Seeking out those who have lost their way with God (Vs 10-14), Trying to lead those in the church back from sin (Vs 15-20), And lastly, the nature of forgiveness, of being both forgiving and forgiven (mercy) (Vs 21-35)

Nowhere in that chapter does it actually speak to those or of those who harm children, the use of the "child" is an allegory for innocence, humbleness, and open mindedness.

reply to post by Jordan River


How do you figure that Jonah was a fable or a myth? That would have to mean that the city of Nineveh and the people of Nineveh were a myth too. The Bible says Nineveh had 120,000 people. How do you justify calling it a myth and what really happened to Jonah?

Nineveh was the flourishing capital of the Assyrian empire (2 Kings 19:36); and ostensibly was the home of King Sennacherib, King of Assyria, during the Biblical reign of King Hezekiah and the prophetic career of Isaiah. According to scripture, Nineveh was also the place where Sennacherib died at the hands of his two sons, who then fled to the land of `rrt Urartu. (Isa. 37:37-38). The book of the prophet Nahum is almost exclusively taken up with prophetic denunciations against this city. Its ruin and utter desolation are foretold (Nahum 1:14; 3:19, etc.). Its end was strange, sudden, tragic. (Nahum 2:6–11) According to the Bible, it was God's doing, his judgment on Assyria's pride (Jonah Nah). In fulfillment of prophecy, God made "an utter end of the place". It became a "desolation". Zephaniah also (2:13–15) predicts its destruction along with the fall of the empire of which it was the capital.

Nineveh is also the setting in the Book of Tobit. Nineveh's repentance and salvation from evil is noted in the Gospel of Matthew (12:41) and the Gospel of Luke (11:32). To this day, oriental churches of the Middle East commemorate the three days Jonah spent inside the fish during the Fast of Nineveh. The faithful fast by refraining from food and drinks. Churches encourage followers to refrain from meat, fish and dairy products.[10

en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by Deetermined


Are you able to find evidence outside of biblical quotes? Any archeological evidence? Anything that does not rely on unfettering faith that the bible is literally true?

Originally posted by CaptainBeno

Pell says Adam and Eve didn't exist

au.news.yahoo.com

In comments that may shock some staunch Catholics, Cardinal George Pell has described the biblical story of Adam and Eve as a myth.

He appeared alongside renowned evolutionary biologist and atheist, Professor Richard Dawkins, on the ABC's Q&A program last night.

(visit the link for the full news article)

What about Lilith? I found it fascinating tracing these fables/myths and they are in the details. Such like the location of the supposed Eden was in Assyria.
A long time it was opposed until we got to know that the river Tigris had different routes thousand of years ago when the supposed gardens of Babylon existed and the babylon tower.
Both have today been studied from many angles and both might have existed. The reasons is several architectual structures and scriptures tells about them.

Assyria is also where Abraham came from.

And today there are theories telling us that the modern man did not come from Africa. But from this area.

They write of the great flood. And several other depictions that later was written in the old testament.

Today we call them aliens. But we have to be reminded of a real strory of how the mind sometimes don't work fully.

When the first white men came with great ships. Indians with the responsibility to check the sea for potential danger or bad weather. But he didn't see the ships, only that the water broke against something that had to be there. His ability to think what he though it might be made it possible to se them.
But he was trained so the other pepople of the tribe could not see them before they came on land.

With that in mind. Imagine what ufos might really look like if we are making the picture of the unknowkn from what we do know. So when it once were angels, then thats what they saw. Then witches, mothmen, dragons and now ufos.

I can't find a link that backs this up. It was from the documentary.What the bleep do we know. And its perceptual blindness.

To understand how this actually exsist check out this video which will prove there are object physically right in front of you that you might not see. www.youtube.com...

I know ive jumped around but these all interconnect to the point of that every story has a original true story its based upon.

And thats where Lilith comes in. She was made by clay like Adam.Lilith becomes Adam's first wife. She is not cooperating well and thus God turns on her. Some depicts her as the snake in the three og knowlege.
She becomes a demon and from a rib of Adam Eve comes along.
This story could be a metaphore for that the first human mother was primate of origin while the second. Eve. Was the improved. But that ultimately it was doomed.
en.wikipedia.org...

Wouldnt it be cool if we all read a little more?

reply to post by RyanFromCan


You think Wikipedia only gives the Biblical history of Nineveh?

I only copy and pasted a small portion. There is other history and archaeology information posted inside the link if you're interested.

Originally posted by Garfee

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by Garfee

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Garfee

 

The context was attacking the integrity of the Word of God as it's written.

Dude, believe whatever you want to, my point was this is nothing new, not by a long shot.

It's not the word of god until god says it is, right in front of me.

That's included in "believe whatever you want."

Alongside believing in myths as fact? I don't think so.

IMHO, my beliefs should be irrelevant to your beliefs. But that's just me.

Believe whatever you want to.

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by MrXYZ

 

Throw me an example of where the Bible was proven wrong and I'll try to answer your question.

As for your link, it looked like most of the questions revolved around the Bible not giving enough detail to answer them.

edit on 11-4-2012 by Deetermined because: (no reason given)

That link lists over 430 cases where the bible is wrong

I just cannot believe that this guys does not believe in the creation story....I hope he comes to peace with his soul. What is the world coming too.

Originally posted by korathin

Originally posted by CaptainBeno

Pell says Adam and Eve didn't exist

au.news.yahoo.com

In comments that may shock some staunch Catholics, Cardinal George Pell has described the biblical story of Adam and Eve as a myth.

He appeared alongside renowned evolutionary biologist and atheist, Professor Richard Dawkins, on the ABC's Q&A program last night.

(visit the link for the full news article)

This is how atheism became acceptable in civilized society. Atheist psychopaths and sociopaths, infiltrated Religious and Political positions to ever so slightly steer society away from theism. Cardinal Pell ought to be excommunicated and ripped from his position.

Civilized society should be based on atheism or at least free will. Do you really think that all the things in the bible are facts ? I mean, come on...