Public vs. Private Schools

When I went to primary and secondary schools between 1955 and 1967, schools were mostly concerned with the three R's. I went to a number of very financially deprived rural public schools and some well financed urban public school. Through it all, I managed to get an adequate education, which ultimately gave me a good foundation of knowledge that led to my having earned a BA and an MSW.

Today, the situation is public schools is atrocious. School have to squeeze the three R's between sex education, bureaucratic demands, efforts to maintain discipline, dodging bullets from disgruntled students, etc.

The view of one sixteen year old student. Try to remember that I am old enough to be her grandfather and that our school experience is separated by a generation of deterioration.

Today Fox New reported a recent study which showed that urban public school teachers are more that twice as likely to send their kids to private schools than the general public. This article tell of some of the reasons the general public seeks out private school, at great expense, which I quote because the link requires registration.

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"Push for values drives public school exodus
By Linda Doherty, Education Editor
August 9, 2004"

"A demand for better discipline and a hankering for tradition, smart uniforms and moral values are driving parents out of public education and into private schools, exclusive research for the Herald reveals.

"School culture - not academic results - is the main reason parents select private schools, according to the study by the Australian Council for Educational Research, based on a national poll of parents of high school students.

"'One factor stood out: the extent to which the school embraced traditional values to do with discipline, religious or moral values, the traditions of the school itself, and the requirement that a uniform be worn,' the study says.

"Concern over discipline is the reason a third of the public school parents surveyed would switch their children to private schools if they could afford the fees.

"'This suggests that if private education was more affordable, the drift away from government schools would continue,' concludes the study, Why Parents Choose Private or Public Schools.

"But it also finds that most parents of students in government schools are fully committed to free and secular education.

"In the 10 years to 2003, enrolments in public schools increased nationally by 1.2 per cent, compared with a growth spurt of 22.3 per cent in private schools. Each year, the NSW public education system loses about 5000 existing or prospective students to private schools.

"The fastest growth is in non-government high schools. Every capital city, except Darwin and Hobart, has at least 40 per cent of students in private secondary schools. In Sydney, the rate is 41.7 per cent.

"Geoff Masters, the chief executive of the Australian Council for Educational Research, said the research shows "perceptions play a big role when parents pick schools".

"'The lesson for public schools is they should better market themselves about how they are addressing values, discipline and the quality of education,' Professor Masters said. 'Many of the traditional values that parents say are important are, in fact, there in government schools.'

"Other reasons for choosing private schools include the belief that they offer a better education and have superior, higher-paid teachers.

"Parents believe private schools have smaller classes or can provide more individual attention, despite public schools having, on average, smaller classes and the strictest requirements on teacher qualifications.

"The study questioned 609 parents of children in public, Catholic and independent schools. Most public school parents surveyed were loyal supporters of state education. For these parents, the schools' subject choice, location and the "broader social experiences" in the mix of student backgrounds are important in school choice. They were happy with their own education in public schools and saw the quality of education as the same in both sectors.

"Coalition voters are more likely to choose independent schools, while Labor voters more commonly pick public schools.

"There is a direct link between socio-economic status and school choice. High-income earners with prestigious jobs and university degrees are far more likely to choose independent schools over Catholic and public schools.

"More than 40 per cent of the parents of independent school children surveyed earn more than $100,000 a year, compared with 22 per cent of Catholic school parents and 11 per cent of public school parents.

"John Stirton, research director of ACNielsen, which conducted the poll, said the voting intentions and wealth levels influenced private school choice but there remained a strong core group that prefers government schools. 'Traditional values are probably the best predictor of the people wanting to select a non-government school. That's what they're after.'

"Professor Masters said the mantra of discipline for choosing private schools was often a general comment about the 'culture of the school being focused on the core business of learning'.

"Parents do not want their children's study interrupted by disruptive students. The 2002 Vinson inquiry into public education estimated that fewer than 5 per cent of the 750,000 students in NSW were badly behaved.

"The public school share of students nationally has fallen from 77.4 per cent in 1970 to 68.4 per cent this year."


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I have not found anything on the internet of these latest findings regarding public school teachers, but when I do, I will post them.

What is your view of public school versus private school?

[edit on 04/9/25 by GradyPhilpott]

Being a current student in a public high school I feel like I can contribute something to this thread.

Public school, to begin with, and from what I hear is alot different from what it used to be. There aren't any students being smacked with a ruler because they talked out loud without their hand up and first being called on. I think this is a problem. The environment in the classroom is a lot more 'laid back'. Students are listening to music, drawing, socializing with their friends, and most of this is without punishment. At public school, it seems to be just one playground.

Private school is another story, instead of you parents paying from their tax dollars, they are paying out of their pockets. In my opinion, if I was to go to a public school, I would smarted out a lot. You parents are paying for you to learn in a more controlled environment, not a playground. Rules are a lot more strict, the work load is a lot heavier and the students are generally more well behaved.

Let's expand on the work load part a bit. In private school you may be learning a whole topic of choice in a week, while in public school, you may spend a couple weeks, maybe even a month on that subject. I contribute this again to the fact that public school are a lot more laid back in their teaching habits. I guess in this case you really get what you pay for.

Many public school do not have a dress code, while all the private schools I have seen do. I think that this also contributes to the learning skills of the student. Any teenage boy knows that if he see a girl walking around in a halter top and a miniskirt hiked up to here, he is going to 'check her out'. Now imagine one of these whorish dressed students sitting across the table from you while you are trying to learn advanced accounting. Obviously, the student is going to be somewhat distracted from his learnings. In private school, that problem is totally eliminated with their dress code and again strict rules.

Even more important that a private high school is a private grade school. Set the kids on the right track from the beginning, and they are bound to follow it for the rest of their lives. It is extremly difficult to get into a private high school if you attended a public grade school. If you do get in chances are that you will have a very difficult time with the work load and the things that you are learning. This is because what you are learning in a grade 10 class at a high school classroom, you would of been taught in a grade 8 grade school classroom.

Overall I would say that private school is much better than public school. Sorry for the essay, I had alot of thoughts to get out of my head. Any spelling/grammar mistakes made in this response are attributed to my public school education.

Well, i have to admit...I'm pretty young. I've only been free of highschool for two years.

My experiences are...*cough* a little checkered.

My first problem was that kids are DUMB. I mean, there are kids in there who would have trouble reasoning themselves out of a paper bag. I'm not even joking. there's an intellectual 'elite', then a bunch of mediocre students, then a base of large ones. Teachers pander to the middle group, so that bright kids like the sixteen year old in the article feel unchallenged. The only way that changes is exile into special classes. While I disagree with her comments about the books offered (Literature is literature is literature, doesn't matter where it comes form if it's quality writing), I do agree with the fact that reading and writing are taught pretty poorly. Shakespeare is merely interpretation of what's on the page. We had to do stuff like Rhyme of the Ancient Mariner and Wuthering Heights too, but most people probably would have prefered to lose a finger to having to read thsoe books and write something on them. In a nutshell, students aren't driven. Students don't care. If they do care, that's quickly crushed. Kids coem to class drunk and/or stoned on a regular basis.

The second problem is drugs. Weed is an epidemic in highschool. Drinking, not so much. However, now that drugs are so huge everywhere, that brings a certain measure of violence with it. Yesterday, I saw statistics that claimed that up to 86% of grade 12s had tried drugs in the past four years. I've seen girls thumb blotters of acid into their mouthes in class. Mushroom, MDMA and K use is also rising. This, of course, isn't great news.

The third problem is violence. There is a culture of violence in highschools, always have been. Before, there were rules. Now, tehre aren't. Kids are forced to carry knives for self defence. I've seen some pretty savage beatings.

The fourth and final problem is the reactionary attitude of the schools. Sometimes, I don't blame them. They don't hear much unless the bronze drags it up on their desk. But if your school is getting out fo control, you have to do something. Unfortunately, it's often misdirected or a simple knee jerk reaction against violators of the status quo.


High school is hell, period.

DE

Private schools face the same problems that Public schools face. The only thing that happens when you send off your kid to a private school is you are saying you have more of this: $$$$.

I agree, IBM. The system is only part of the problem. It's the kids who are the problem.

DE

Not True.

If students are put into an environment where their negative actions are punished then obviously they are going to catch on sooner or later and smarten up. Its common sense.

It's also common sense that if kids don't want to learn, they won't.

DE

Refer back to my original point.

Yes, some children have learning disabilities, but if they are put into a private school from the very beginning and they are learning at a constant rate, and they stay on track, you wouldn't have to worry about children not wanting to learn.

I'm not talking about learning disabilities. I'm talking lazy, apathetic, ignornant children whose only motivation is drugs or booze. This is a highschool affair almost exclusively, and you can't deny it.

DE

Try reading my posts...

Like I said, throw the children into a private school right from the beginning, they will be motivated, they won't be lazy, or else they will be punished. Keep them in private school, let the go to a private high school, where things are carefully watched over, and students are punished. Sure the drug problem will still exist, but it isn't as strong in a private school as it is in public.

I want to learn and I've been in public school all my life. I don't think it's the schools' fault for anything the child thinks later in life. Everyone has their own mind. YOU decide how you feel and how you think. It's like saying "he called me an idiot and it made me feel bad." HE did not MAKE you feel bad, YOU decided to feel bad, you decided to let it get to you. Point being, everyone has ther own opinions of different schools, and what the schools are 'really' teaching them. If you think they are just trying to get you to conform, then don't listen. I am in high school right now, and even if I had the chance, I would not go to private school. I have very nice friends and not to mention excellent teachers. Not all public schools are bad.

Originally posted by IBM
Private schools face the same problems that Public schools face. The only thing that happens when you send off your kid to a private school is you are saying you have more of this: $$$$.

And that would be totally wrong if you looked at the posts above teachers are twice as likely to put their progeny into private school and only the slightly delusional would say that teachers are trying to show they have $$$. And private schools do not face the same problems that public schools face�.first off, the parents are paying and therefore more involved in their education from the start. Second, if a student doesn�t pull his weight so to speak, or is disruptive a private school can and WILL expulse the problem student. You only have to look back to the Michigan public school that expulsed students in a gang fight caught on tape and the court system overruled the expulsion.

when i have kids they are going to public schools until 6th grade. just so they can get socially aquanted with the other kids. after that kids steadily maintain a lack of compasion that is really quite damaging to the effect of learning. i will then hire a tutor and/or teach them myself.

Originally posted by sturod84
when i have kids they are going to public schools until 6th grade. just so they can get socially aquanted with the other kids. after that kids steadily maintain a lack of compasion that is really quite damaging to the effect of learning. i will then hire a tutor and/or teach them myself.

well you might want to do some research on that plan first.......the ability to learn and the construct of your brain undergoes some very important changes that make the first 10 years of life very important in the overall scheme of how well education takes hold.....also were do you think that lack of compassion comes from? If it is from the public school system it would be a little late at that time.

i have had some run-ins with school boards about my youngest(reading disability),he gets adequate extra help and is doing well.i realized just how different the school systems are when he wasnt up to the level of other students in his first year.the school actually wanted to advance him up to the next grade.the reason really took me for a loop.they actually told me to my face that they didnt want to keep him back because it might damage his confidence to see all of his friends moving ahead of him.he might have a reading disibility but i know his psyche is not that fragile.when i was in public school if you did not make the grade you repeated it.it seems now grades mean nothing compared to moving numbers through the system.

Originally posted by howie0
.it seems now grades mean nothing compared to moving numbers through the system.

That and getting federal funding for Special Education programs, which are neither special nor educational.

I attended a Catholic elementary school (1st to 3rd grade); was home-schooled for five years (4th to 8th grades, because we lived where there were no English-language schools); went two years to a Jesuit high school (9th and 10th grades) and 2 years of government-monopoly school (11th and 12th).

I taught 5th grade in a government-monopoly school in Prince George's County MD for two years, and taught music at parochial schools on a part-time basis for a couple of years, too.

So although my educational experience may not be deep, it's pretty broad, and on both sides of the desk.

As a parent, I was on the PTA and the high school site council for all 12 years of my kid's attendance at Mesa Public Schools in Arizona.

I'm back in school now, chasing an MBA so I could teach at a junior college when I retire in three years. But I would never teach at the government-monopoly schools; they're simly not worth the effort.

I can only hope that they day comes soon when parents, through educational tax vouchers, are able to actually choose the school they want for their kids without having to pay for a bankrupt government-monopoly system they must subsidize whether they use it or not.

Originally posted by Off_The_StreetSo although my educational experience may not be deep, it's pretty broad, and on both sides of the desk.

I think the depth of your education is measured by the years you spent educating not getting educated. It is often said that the teaching is be best education, or words to that effect.

Good luck, with the MBA. Sounds like you have a good plan.

Originally posted by IBM
Private schools face the same problems that Public schools face. The only thing that happens when you send off your kid to a private school is you are saying you have more of this: $$$$.

I have to dissagree with you. I went to both a public and private highschool. My private highschool was very wealthy, and this allowed them to have facilities which shame most colleges. A good private school also allows you to get into better colleges. At the school I went to most colleges understood that a B would equal an A++ at your average highschool, so when you did well, it was rewarded in college admissions.

The fact is that there are good public schools and bad ones, just as there are good and bad private ones. The reason to send your child to a private school should be based on your child and the schools to choose from. Personally, I very much enjoyed going to an all boys prep school because of the academics. I had FANTASTIC teachers in the classes that I enjoyed.

I mean, how many people can say that their Highschool English teacher was in the Nixon administration or that their History teacher is one of the largest private owners of WWII material in the world?

For me, it was great to go to a private school because the teachers there were very good and it offered things that my local public school couldn't.

American Mad Man says:

"The fact is that there are good public schools and bad ones, just as there are good and bad private ones. The reason to send your child to a private school should be based on your child and the schools to choose from. Personally, I very much enjoyed going to an all boys prep school because of the academics. I had FANTASTIC teachers in the classes that I enjoyed."

Good on you, bud. You were fortunate to have parents who were able to pay for your tuition at a private school and also pay, through their taxes, on tuition for the government schools which they and you decided not to attend.

The way I look at it, your parents got screwed twice:

First, they had to pay for the public government-monopoly school even though they didn't use it; and

Second, because the government schools are practically a monopoly, the only way freedom-of-choice schools like the one you went to can survive is to charge high rates.

Imagine what it'd be like if there were private school vouchers! Parent's wouldn't have to pay for a school they didn't use; if they wanted to send their little Precious to a private, freedom-of-choice school, they would get a tax credit. That way, more parents and their kids would be able to choose the school that best fit them. For some it might be a single-sex school with uniforms, for others it might be a science and math school, for others a religious school, and so on.

Not only that, but the number of freedom-of-choice schools would be such that there'd be competition for good teachers and low rates, and the consumers (parents and kids) would benefit. Meanwhile, the government-monopoly schools would have to improve, too, or the freedom-of-choice schools would take their students away, and they'd go out of business.

You were lucky, and I. for one. am glad for you. I just wish all the kids had the same choices you did.