Quantum physicists use light to beam matter through a solid wall

reply to post by buddhasystem

I tend to agree with you. If technology is really that bad, not saying that I am not a critic, cause I am, maybe technology haters should try a tribal existence. Yeah, I see them doing that real soon.

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
reply to post by buddhasystem

 

I tend to agree with you. If technology is really that bad, not saying that I am not a critic, cause I am, maybe technology haters should try a tribal existence. Yeah, I see them doing that real soon.

Quite! But you see, in addition to "technology haters" there are plenty of those on ATS who hate science on principle, you see all science is a lie perpetrated on population by TPTB, big oil, evil bankers and what not. And it's only "alternative" (e.g. sufficiently crazy) ideas that hold any promise. It doesn't matter that theory XYZ that promised to extract energy from vacuum is nonsensical and is invalidated by a simple experiment. Since XYZ is nonsense from the science point of view, it just has to be true.

I've only typed this up because I liked your phrase "tribal existence". Because really, I would love to see a bunch of New Age wackos having to move someplace really tribal due to some calamity, and then having a chance to get back to civilization with all its comfy couches, aspirin and computers. In that situation, they would have to choose their leaders. Would they choose those who claim that Egyptian Pyramids are in tune with sacred frequencies of the Universe, and a small model pyramid (properly tuned) will produce energy and aspirin? Or would they pick up a few EE guys who can fix a broken radio, fashion a crude flashlight out of garbage, and construct a working compass out of a sewing needle so as to steer the tribe back to safety?

reply to post by buddhasystem


LOL, well, you'd probably consider me a New Age "wacko," but I understand where you are coming from. Notice, one of my titles is "Resident New Ager."

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
reply to post by buddhasystem

 

LOL, well, you'd probably consider me a New Age "wacko," but I understand where you are coming from. Notice, one of my titles is "Resident New Ager."

Ooops...

Nevertheless, you seem like a reasonable person. I think you overestimated your "resident" status. You can't hold a candle to some individuals here when it comes to New-Ageiness.

reply to post by buddhasystem


I understand. Some fellow "New Agers" are way-way out there. The main problem I see with the movement is that there is not any unifying belief system. It's just this vast conglomeration of a mixture of ancient and modern beliefs that range from the profound to the absurd. Those who adhere to the absurd, more often than not, seem to speak the loudest within the community, unfortunately. I know where you are coming from.

reply to post by Human_Alien

Particles cannot normally pass through walls, but if they are small enough quantum mechanics says that it can happen. This occurs during the production of radioactive decay and in many chemical reactions as well as in scanning tunnelling microscopes.

So do the aliens shrink people first?

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04
reply to post by Human_Alien

 

Particles cannot normally pass through walls, but if they are small enough quantum mechanics says that it can happen. This occurs during the production of radioactive decay and in many chemical reactions as well as in scanning tunnelling microscopes.

So do the aliens shrink people first?

I guess you indicate here that the description given in that pop-science article is inadequate. Well, it is inadequate.

reply to post by buddhasystem


What I am saying is that Human-Alien is using this as proof aliens are beaming people through solid materials. The article in no defends that position, they are taking advantage of a loophole that can only be used on the smallest of scales. So people getting beamed through matter is not justified by this research. Apples and Oranges.

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04
reply to post by buddhasystem

 

What I am saying is that Human-Alien is using this as proof aliens are beaming people through solid materials. The article in no defends that position, they are taking advantage of a loophole that can only be used on the smallest of scales. So people getting beamed through matter is not justified by this research. Apples and Oranges.

Ah. Honestly I took interest in the original science publication (which is interesting indeed) and ignored all the ballast, including the silly, the ridiculous and the stupid.

Originally posted by Trublbrwing
Right you are, I forgot all about the wonderful things science has given us over the years..........
Mustard gas
Napalm
Atomic bombs
Gunpowder
Oil slicks
Chernobyl
Bhopal
Bouncing Betty's
Clay-mores
Grenades
Global warming
Pipe bombs
Bullets
Tanks

It is fairly typical of a poor debating tactic to focus down hard on ONE particular field of application, in to which science and its collected works have contributed. What you seem hell bent on ignoring, is that science itself is not responsible for these things. All science actually is, is the tool by which mankind observes, codifies, and learns about the world, and the wider universe around it. No more, and no less. What nations and states, and individual organisations and isolated persons do with that information is up to them, and thier responsibility to bear, thier soul that is marked with it.

That's the short list Einstein. About the only invention that enriches the average person's life is the toilet, the rest is garbage we can all live pretty well without.

Which would be all very well, if you ignore the fact that the communication that you and I, and everyone on this website enjoy, would be impossible if it were not for the advent of telecommunications, which were an endevour which mingled engineering and a scientific principle to produce the first telephone, the lines of which morphed into the amazing feat that runs beneath our feet, the fibre optic cable, through which we can now communicate in MYRIAD formats, all over the planet.

Your argument would hold water alot better, if you have never used a mobile phone, driven a car, used gas to cook with, or electricity to power your home, or indeed watched a television. When you cross the street, do you wait for the traffic signal when it is busy?

So the real question I have for you Sir, is how far back do you want to take it? Technically speaking, science has been a part of our human existance ever since we went further than using bones and rocks to deter predators, and sharp sticks to hunt our prey, back when we were just this side of apedom. That use of weight, of increased reach was developed alongside a slow increase in our understanding of basic physics.

We came to understand that a weight in the hand, preferably a wieght with some length on it, would multiply the force at which we could strike, making us less open to attack, and more capable as hunters. Without the understanding that it would be a good idea to plant crops, and the following learning that allows a farmer to pick the best plot according to the needs of a seedling or crop type, we would have starved millenia ago.

So... if you wish to write off everything but the flushing toilet, you may wish to consider that without the preceeding millenia of advancement we would still be in the trees. You must also accept, because it is true, that everything that makes us man, rather than ape, is because we can observe our environment, and adapt to encompass our new data into our world veiw, and the methods by which we survive. All of these things are science in action, and we humans are scientists from the day we first breathe, because it is then that our learning begins, and in all learning is science. From walking upright, to playing catch, to operating a motor vehicle. Every time we cook, or clean. Every time we observe something. To cast science down, is to cast mankind itself, and its every endevour.

You are more than welcome to do that if you wish, but I think you had best understand what you are saying first.

reply to post by buddhasystem


I quite agree, definitely very interesting. I wonder what applications it will have.

reply to post by Aim64C


Well look at it like this....we give our old F-16s to different countries yet we still use the F-16 and as well as other craft, but do you really think we don't have something better stored away? There is just no need to expose it yet. The US military is very advanced just in their conventional systems alone. Maybe I overestimated saying 50 years, but I bet they are working on stuff now that wont be available for civilians for another 50 years just as I had mentioned about some of the applications of a sort of cell phone tech in WWII or internet in Vietnam. That stuff didn't trickle down to us for about 50 years. So sure...not everything is 50 years ahead of time, but Id argue some of the stuff they are doing is...some of those departments have near limitless pockets for research. When I get time I'll have to post a thread...there is a cool book called Body of Secrets that is about the NSA that actually talks about some of these things. Probably one of the best books ive ever read on declassified information.

Originally posted by cosmicexplorer
reply to post by Aim64C

 

Well look at it like this....we give our old F-16s to different countries yet we still use the F-16 and as well as other craft, but do you really think we don't have something better stored away? There is just no need to expose it yet. The US military is very advanced just in their conventional systems alone. Maybe I overestimated saying 50 years, but I bet they are working on stuff now that wont be available for civilians for another 50 years just as I had mentioned about some of the applications of a sort of cell phone tech in WWII or internet in Vietnam. That stuff didn't trickle down to us for about 50 years. So sure...not everything is 50 years ahead of time, but Id argue some of the stuff they are doing is...some of those departments have near limitless pockets for research. When I get time I'll have to post a thread...there is a cool book called Body of Secrets that is about the NSA that actually talks about some of these things. Probably one of the best books ive ever read on declassified information.

I observe that this kind of statement (complete with 50 year lag and all) became a staple on ATS and an Internet meme. That, however, does not make it true.

The F-16 mention in your post is entirely misplaced. High R&D cost airframes do remain in service and further development for many decades (including the Shuttle, Boeing 747 and many others). This doesn't mean that the airframe itself does not evolve in many ways (747 is one example), and don't forget that the new propulsion systems and avionics make it an almost completely new product. So when you look for "cutting edge", some platforms that are nominally 40 years old are in fact state of the art.

There are knowledgeable tech people on this board who have correctly stated that in some cases the military complex will employ technologies that are a few years ahead of the wider market and in some cases a few years behind -- for sake of stability and proven performance.

I read parts of the book you mentioned in your post, the "Body of Secrets", and nothing there supports the contention. If anything, it proves it's wrong.

The atomic bomb was developed roughly around 1943-45, and you can be assured that the best and the latest computers were used to perform calculations required in this project. By standards of 1960-s, the computers used were absolute crap. So there.

reply to post by buddhasystem


Ok well then according to your statements....you know everything secret the military has....that is impressive....history has shown that the military uses tech a little bit more than 3 years advanced than civilian tech...im not saying the entire military R +D department is 50 years ahead of us....maybe some of the beginning research is. What if I changed it to 20 years...would that be ok? Because it certainly is not just a few years as you mentioned.

And just because they used crap tech on some projects doesnt mean they didn't have better being tested somewhere else....

Originally posted by cosmicexplorer
reply to post by buddhasystem

 

Ok well then according to your statements....you know everything secret the military has...

It's the opposite. You made an astonishing claim that the military has futuristic technologies up its sleeve which are 50 year ahead of what we know. So it would appear that you claim superior knowledge in these matters. Unfortunately, you can't back it up with anything of substance. Because you know, words are just words.

And when we look at historical facts, they seem to disprove your contention. There was never a 50 year lag between the first military jet planes and first civilian jets. There was never a 50 year lag between the most advanced military computers and what the business community is using.

But this won't stop some people from strumming the "souper sikrit military tech 50 years ahead".

Originally posted by buddhasystem

Originally posted by cosmicexplorer
reply to post by buddhasystem

 

Ok well then according to your statements....you know everything secret the military has...

It's the opposite. You made an astonishing claim that the military has futuristic technologies up its sleeve which are 50 year ahead of what we know. So it would appear that you claim superior knowledge in these matters. Unfortunately, you can't back it up with anything of substance. Because you know, words are just words.

And when we look at historical facts, they seem to disprove your contention. There was never a 50 year lag between the first military jet planes and first civilian jets. There was never a 50 year lag between the most advanced military computers and what the business community is using.

But this won't stop some people from strumming the "souper sikrit military tech 50 years ahead".

Ok...the space shuttle....we sent people into space...just recently..50 years later I might add...has a civilian sent someone into space on their own....sort of....that is one example....applications of cell phone tech and the internet would be another....the new hologram thing with tupac...we heard about project blue beam back in like the early 90s so that one is about 20 years old....i could go on and on ...and these are only the techs we know of....

Sure parts of the space shuttle like the basic computers and things like that...but the whole package...civilians cant compete because of funds...not because we are less capable...i still believe that there are instances of military tech being very advanced to civilian tech...and even up to 50 years...and besides...what I am trying to get across is a financial issue. There are civilians that are brilliant that if they had the funds they could produce some amazing tech...when i say the military has tech 50years ahead of us it could actually be 5 years if some university had a grant to study the same problem.

One more point is this...we also don't know if there is some other random variable such as alien tech or something like which made the appearance of the military's tech being more advanced...I know that may not be in your realm of interest, but its just another point.

Either way mate I appreciate the good conversation with you.

And they are 50 years ahead of mainstream science.

Originally posted by TrueBrit
reply to post by Trublbrwing

 

I am so glad that we have rational, clear headed and informed posts like these on the boards, really I am. Thrilled to bits. So refreshing to hear (yet another) unique opinion from someone who appears to believe we should have stayed in the trees hurling our scatalogical output at one another from the leafy fronds of our former homes. Also it is plesant to hear that there are some who would suggest that the greatest inventions, and discoveries made by man are mere meddling and nothing more.

This seems like a wildly inappropriate response to a topic that is very interesting. I would admit that the OP is a bit uninformed, but discussion can fix that. Flaming him is not the appropriate answer to this. Let's start a discussion, shall we?

The thing that has kept this species moving, living, advancing and progressing (wether you personally enjoy the progress or not) has been our inquisitive nature, our questing intent, to learn all that we can about the world around us, and the universe in a wider sense. We would not even be communicating now if people in the past had decided that the arcane arts of international telecoms were a heresy best left un-touched. What has happened to mankind in the last hundred years ought to be a testament and a memorial to all the masterful persons who had thier ideas crushed by ignorance. Like Tesla for instance.

There is a lot of topic here to be covered, and I'm going to let the part about Tesla go for another thread. Technically speaking, the only thing that our inquisitive nature has allowed us to do (from what you mentioned, bolded) is advancing. Moving, living (and to some extent, progressing) can happen naturally even if we weren't inquisitive. I agree that advancing is a huge part of "us" as a species, and I'm excited to see what comes next.

As far as the Original Post (OP) is concerned, I think there may be some misunderstanding of that article. Most scientists that work on quantum mechanics have realized all along that matter can pass through physical objects. Of course it's probable, but the science pretty much rules out it ever happening in our lifetime. Since everything is given a wave function, large masses such as humans, elephants, and fruit flies have wavelengths that are very, very long. Given this, the probability the the wave functions line up exactly to pass through another heavy mass object (like an apple, a desk, or a thick wig), is very low.

My quantum chemistry professor put it this way; If you wanted to put your hand through the desk, it would happen eventually according to quantum mechanics, you'd probably just have to wait the lifetime of the universe for it to happen. Although I'm still waiting for that YouTube video to go viral! Interesting article non-the-less, but still, nothing terribly new or exciting. I'm afraid we'll have to wait until teleportation becomes a reality before we get terribly excited.

Originally posted by cosmicexplorer
we heard about project blue beam back in like the early 90s so that one is about 20 years old....i could go on and on ...and these are only the techs we know of....

Sorry but "Project Blue Beam" does not qualify as "the techs we know of". It's a rather outlandish conspiracy theory, also discussed here on ATS. It has more holes in it than Swiss cheese.

Sure parts of the space shuttle like the basic computers and things like that...

Exactly. My $3 Chinese watch has more processing power than the Shuttle.

i still believe that there are instances of military tech being very advanced to civilian tech...and even up to 50 years...

You believe? If it's a matter of faith, there is little point in discussing it, right?
By the way I since I'm active in technology field, I was getting newsletters from defense industry publications, invitations to conferences and all that. While some really cool and advanced technology is being developed, it's in no way like Star Trek.

Either way mate I appreciate the good conversation with you.

Likewise.