To all NON AMERICANS, would you feel safer if your country allowed its citizens to carry/own guns?

As both an American and a licensed firearm owner, I think I can safely make the following observation and statement. Those countries and citizens that have never been allowed to purchase private firearms will continue to say and believe their country is better off without them, while countries with the ability to purchase firearms will continue to believe they would not be able to function without them.

I think that's a pretty fair statement.

S&F

Originally posted by thehoneycomb
reply to post by Freeborn

 

Also just as a bit of added curiosity, why do you oppose guns specifically?

I commend you for not wanting to impose that on US btw, we have been a nation for over 200 years, obviously we did something right.

though I realize this post is not directed at me, I would like to answer, I personally am not opposed to guns, but I have no problem with Gun control, there is a difference, we as citizens are allowed to own guns here in Canada, even "restricted firearms", if we meet the conditions, which are actually pretty simple to meet. We are just restricted in what we can do with our firearms, not so much the non-restricted firearms like long guns, but the restricted firearms like handguns.

I am not against guns, I am just not for the unfettered, uncontrolled possession and carrying of guns by people who probably should not have guns, and have no real valid reason to carry them around with them. In part, is a fundamental difference in our societies, gun crime does happen, but not anywhere hear the rate it happens in the US, allowing people to carry guns for "self defense" just ends up in a vicious circle it seems. I really do hate to bring it up, but in the Martin/Zimmerman case, if firearms had not been present, we would not have a dead teenager, and the tension that comes with it.

Originally posted by thehoneycomb

Don't become an apathetic liberal.

Resist.

Yes, there are some apathetic Liberals, as there are apathetic democrats/conservatives. I am a liberal, and in previous posts I have explained my views on guns, I am not against them, just not for uncontrolled access, ownership, or carrying of them. Please don't try to make this a Liberal VS Conservative issue, it really is not, and lumping all liberals into one idea or concept is doing just that.

reply to post by Cosmic911


I will speak only as a Canadian now, I tend to agree with you, that nations that are not allowed to own guns on any level will probably stay that way, and the citizens will agree, but I keep running into the myth that Americans seem to believe, that as we have gun control in Canada, we are not allowed to own firearms, nothing can be farther from the truth. We are allowed to own guns in Canada, in fact, in some places it is a way of life, not because they are needed for self defense from thugs, though in some places it is needed for self defense from wildlife, but to hunt for sustenance. Long guns are easy to get and own if you pass the safety course, have no violent history, and no criminal record. The conditions with gun control basically state how you can use that gun, as in you can't threaten people with it, you have to store it in a safe and secure manner unloaded so it is difficult to steal or be used against yourself or others.

It is a little more difficult to own a handgun, and you have to meet certain conditions to do so, such as belong to a range, gun club (yes, we have gun clubs here) or wildlife federation. You have to meet the same storage conditions and guns safety laws as unrestricted guns (long guns), and you cannot carry or transport the gun without a permit to do so.

Transport permits are easy to get, it is as simple as a phone call to a toll free number. or submitting a short form on the web. yes, it can be a pain in the ass, as you need to get a permit to take the gun to a smith, or bring it home from the gun store, or take it to a "verifier" or police station if you need to (most police forces with take custodial care of your firearms willingly without cost if you go on vacation and do not want to risk them being stolen while you are away) but again it is as simple as a phone call to a toll free number. you can also get blanket permits for 5 years for you to take your handgun from home to the range, yes, you have to follow certain routs, but you get to chose them when applying, and you only have to apply once every five years, and by a simple web form or phone call.

The transport permit system is not a great hassle, and I have never heard of anyone being refused one, it just creates a situation where they can nab a thug, who while having maybe not committed any "other" crimes, was wandering around with a gun for no good purpose.

We own guns, many MANY Canadians own guns, we just don't carry them around everywhere we go, and we don't see the need to (some do, but generally, they are the minority), it is a cultural thing, one of the fundamental differences between out countries.

reply to post by RyanFromCan


Excellent post, neighbor to my north!



I learned a little about Canandian firearm law from reading these past few posts in this thread. I definitely agree that personal beliefs and state-sponsored legislation rely heavily on cultural beliefs and influences. I don't think its right or wrong, or correct or incorrect, It just is what it is. Trying to change those beliefs would be next to impossible.

Originally posted by thehoneycomb
reply to post by seudonymous

 

I wonder if they have WWII movies where you live. Not just you but everybody and this is not directed at you...but... I found the Diary of Anne Frank terribly boring, but it was required when I was in school to watch. Yes they actually taught us about the evils of governments. While it was painfully boring I am glad I watched it.

I found the book far more insightful, the movie doesn't do the story justice. You do know theirs a book right?(The Diary of a Young Girl if your actually interested and not just trolling).
I assume your implying guns are needed for national deffence
Firearms were completly usless defending Australia from the Japanese in WW2... Given the geopolitics of the Asia-Pacific their is no threat to Australia... crime is not a big issue.. As I said, I don't think the citizens of a 'first world' country should fear for their safety.
Sorry for the off topic post, but obviously americans are going to feel differently, their country started with revolution and civil war. They need guns just incase the red-coats come back...

If it me you wouldn't get within 100 yards. That wouldn't be an issue.

So... You shoot anyone that comes within 100 yards?...

Obviously you guy's haven't seen some of the knuckle draggers around here.
Knuckle draggers with gun's is a scary thought.

reply to post by Suspiria


Just imagine Hanley bus station or Bentilee with people legally allowed to own firearms.....the thought is too horrible to think of and chucking out time in most of the 6 towns would be a blood bath every weekend due to 10 pints followed by a kebab and a gun fight by the taxi rank

reply to post by Maxatoria


Never a truer word was spoken.

reply to post by RandalFlagg


Our soldiers make a pledge. Not to the Government but to the Constitution. 90% of soldiers polled would not fire on American citizens as it is an un-lawfull order. I am an American, southern American, so guns are like opinions around here, everybody has one. I would rather die by being shot, than die by being hacked to death with a knife or simular weapon, axe, meat clever, machete, sword, . An unarmed populace is a controlled populace, well controlled as you can not fight back. So if you alls Government decides to crack down, it will be an easy out.

Not so easy of an out here in America. The OUT is a baseball saying. For those of you without baseball..

reply to post by BenReclused


OK I finally got around to reading the article,

I have a few issues with it and Ill try to address and counter them all.

1) First off is that areas with higher concentrations of guns have lower crime rates.
My issue with this is that they are 2 totally unrelated facts, Gun ownership is densest in rural areas, across the whole world Crime rates are always higher in cities than in country areas so I personally dont see this as something to support guns being a factor.

2) The rise in gun ownership coincided with a drop in crime,
As the article states that in the same period that crime dropped the prison population rose by more than 400%.
While most of this increase was petty criminals such as drug users I would hazard a guess that most of the crime that dropped would have been burglary, armed robbery, Auto theft etc etc. In other words the kind of crimes you would associate with drug addicts.
Once again I doubt that gun ownership had anything to do with the drop n crime

3) The use of European statistics to justify Gun ownership
Its stated several times in the article the correlation between high (by European standards not American ones) gun ownership rates and lower crime rates and vice versa.
Norway with its high gun and low crime rates and England the opposite.
In Norway crime has never been an issue, this is mainly due to socio economic reasons. Norway is a fairly homogenous well educated and socially stable country. Also not noted is the fact that by far and away the vast majority of gun owners are in rural areas and used for hunting, hand guns are rare and almost all gun crime is committed with stolen weapons.
As noted Britain has now overtaken the US statistically in violent crimes and has a ban on guns, the ban on guns came as a result of the rising crime rate and not the other way around.
Records show that the large increase in violent crime started roughly a generation after the first major influx of immigrants to the country. Today although making up only 12% of the population 48% of violent crime is the result of 1st generation Britons.


To be honest I think that article used a lot of figures, statistics, and words to say exactly nothing!!!!!!
It even concludes at the end using Europe as an example that statistics dont mean much as their are countries with higher crime and lower gun rates, high crime high gun rates, and every other combination so you can basically cherry pick a country to suit your argument.
It was interesting reading but isnt going to change anyones mind either way.

Im sticking by my original argument that gun ownership unless for hunting is unnecessary and even counter productive.
1) it desensitises people to gun use
2) It makes more guns available through robbery and theft to criminals who may otherwise not have the finances to purchase one on the black market
3)Its a fact that gun crime is highest in America which also has the highest amount of guns, as people have pointed out an armed citizen is a more confident citizen ut the same is also true of criminals.
4) It takes alot less courage to kill someone with a gun which is impersonal than it does with for example a knife.
5) more guns equal more accidental gun deaths which is also a fact.

Once again if you want to won a gun its your right but please dont think or tell me it makes you or anyone else safer.

While researching this I came across an article that may be of interest to you, it points out that gun owners are more likely to die by shooting than the non gun owners

Household gun rates

Basically statistics can show whatever you want them to.

I noticed an article on here today about 5 different gun murders in the US over the past 24 hrs. You come across as an intelligent guy, I just cant understand how you can be pro gun

reply to post by openyourmind1262

So if you alls Government decides to crack down, it will be an easy out.

I don't believe anything is as black and white as this implies. Each year the lines get more and more gray.

I think you brits are just jealous that you cant walk out your door at 9am walk into the gunstore at 930am purchase an AR15 with as many 30rd magazines as youd like buy a case of ammo and be back home shooting bottles off your fencepost by 1030am lol. Just joshin with yall, but i love my country, i Serve my country and i LOVEEEE MY GUNS! "a free man shall make his own choices, raise his own family, be free to state his opinion and be able to arm himself and his loved ones to preserve life liberty and free will!"

And p.s. if i ever had orders to fire on unarmed civilians that posed no threat id put down my service weapon and knock that officers head off his shoulders. That would NEVER HAPPEN! Nobody i repeat NOBODY who i serve with would fire on civilians! That is the difference between america and the german nazis of ww2. I dint know where someone would even think this stuff up. Killing the very people of the country and constitution whom youve sworn to protect i just couldnt dream it.

English... and dear god no. The last thing we need here are more guns. Half the countryside owns a shotgun as it is, and I know about half a dozen suburban people who shoot recreationally. I saw a man en route to blow away another man in the eighties with a shotgun, complete with armed police at the scene.

It's a myth that the British don't have firearms. We just don't have handguns.

was looking at the statistics on gun deaths ...basically over 11 thousand people die each year in the USA compared to the whole of Europe where gun deaths are less than a hundred per country

Hello no.
Knife crimes already a big enough problem here in the UK, I really wouldn't want to see guns being used in violent crimes become a bigger problem too.
And I don't want to hear "but at least you could defend yourself if you were armed", that is true, but it would be more than likely your attacker would be too.
And you're more likely to dodge getting stabbed than dodge getting shot.
I really don't think we need more guns on our streets.

According to this... www.nationmaster.com...

The US is the fourth highest in gun crimes, way more than countries who do not allow gun ownership.

So America, why are you so obsessed with trying to convince the rest of the world to follow your ridiculous ideas about gun ownership? Obviously it doesn't reduce crime does it?

I can just imagine going to a first division football match in England with people packing heat.

I am a US citizen and I do not own a gun and most likely never will. I don't like them. But this is a right our citizens have always had, a part of our Constitution, so we are a "gun culture" so to say. There is gun control here and it is getting tougher as time passes. You no longer can just go down to your local gun shop, and haven't been able to for most of my life, and carry one out. There is a system in place to vet those applying for ownership. I do believe that if you do own a gun you need to know how to properly handle and store it, as should everyone else in your household.

I think many of the contributors of this thread, that are from other countries, have a very skewed perspective of how it actually is here in the States when it comes to ownership and how many people actually own guns that are not solely used for hunting.

Each country has their own issues. I personally don't understand the violence in the UK that seems to follow most soccer/football matches.