Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by RyanFromCan
Karl Marx was the "Father of Communism", you know that. He co wrote the "Communist Manifesto" with Engels. He embraced Hegelian dialectical
materialism. I understand perfectly well what Marxism is. I posted those links to show you and others here who may be reading this to refute your
position that Communism in Russia was not Marxist and to refute your position that race and class warfare are not part of the Communist Revolution.
Yes, Karl Marx is considered "the father of communism", not because he put into practice anything, but because of his, and Engels theories, the
philosophical ideas they had. What you fail, or refuse to acknowledge is that both Lenin and Stalin perverted the ideals that Marx an Engels put forth
in the manifesto, that Leninism and Stalinsm are different from Marxism, or "pure theoretical Communism", it goes back to the old saying power
corrupts absolutely. Your problem is that you can't or won't differentiate, or accept that Marx's theories were polluted, that the Russian style
communism we know, that you toss around as an insult, bears no resemblance to Marx's, or Engels theories, their intellectual philosophies. Leninism
and Stalinism may be based loosely on Marxism, but they are pollutions of it.
You can't seem to see or understand the differences, you have lumped them together and labeled them bad, like you are scared of the big bad red
ruskies, True communism as Marx envisioned it is a theoretical utopia, the reality of what happened in Russia was not the same thing, it was perverted
for power and influence.
Lenin acknowledged that the proletarian movement would still have an Elite ruling on top to run things, and so in Russia they had the Politburo and
the KGB to spy on everyone. Anyone who disagreed or was considered an enemy(such as doctors and learned people) could be put in the Gulags and
deported to Siberia. Russian communism was as Totalitarian as Mussolini and Hitler's fascism, it's just that Hitler left a few private industries in
place whereas Russia turned everything into centralized control.
I will agree with you here, but this is not Marxism, this is a pollution of his theories, a pollution of "true communism", and it is interesting to
point out that these same kind of things are happening in the western world, and it is not just a "socialist" thing, we have a very right wing
government in Canada right now that is doing this, removing rights, violating others, and trying to gain power by interfering in privacy, among other
things, and it is happening in the US too, and neither country is communist in the sense that Russia was.
And yes, unfettered capitalism is a problem, it has, and is showing the potential to be as totalitarian as any regime, it is the concentration of
power in few hands, and the abuse of that power, both are extremes, It does not matter if you go ultra extreme right, or ultra extreme left, they meet
at a point called totalitarianism. This is not what Marx was about, he was about balancing personal freedoms and the greater good, about people
getting what they need, and adding what they could, about using peoples strengths to better the whole.
Unfettered capitalism clearly does not work, we see that with the global economic situation right now, because it depends on people and institutions
being self policing, and they just can't, power and the unholy worship of money gets in the way. I am not saying Marxism is the only way to go,
neither do I believe in unfettered capitalism, there has to be a balance struck between them.
My problem with what you put forth is that you lumped Marxism, Leninism, and Stalinism together when they are not the same thing.
I will not dispute much of the other stuff you have to say, but lets be factual about this, what you refer to as "communism" (Russian style), is not
what Marx or Engels theorized, it is it's bastard child.
edit on 4/11/2012 by RyanFromCan because: (no reason given)
4/11/2012 by RyanFromCan because: (no reason given)
edit on 4/11/2012 by RyanFromCan because: spelling